Driver not charged in daylight overtaking fatality

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Steven Goodridg, Jun 25, 2003.

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  1. Does anybody understand why this driver was not charged?

    http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/7/052836-7867-014.html

    "The driver of a van that struck and killed a bicyclist likely will not face criminal charges,
    authorities said Monday. Carl Davidson, 48, of Indianapolis died about 11:30 a.m. Friday when the
    van collided with the bike he was riding on U.S. 52 near Ind. 47, just east of Thorntown. The van's
    driver, Gary Baker, told officers he looked up, saw the bike and couldn't stop in time, according to
    Maj. Jeff Keller of the Boone County Sheriff's Department. "We don't know if he was looking at
    something in the van or what. This was an accident," Keller said. Police continued to investigate,
    but no charges are pending, he said."

    The Boone County Prosecutor's Office can be found at:
    http://www.bccn.boone.in.us/prosecutor/index.html
     
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  2. Grl

    Grl Guest

    Lack of a witness to a wrong-doing, perhaps?

    --

    - GRL

    "It's good to want things."

    Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic programmer)
    "Steven Goodridge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Does anybody understand why this driver was not charged?
    >
    > http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/7/052836-7867-014.html
    >
    > "The driver of a van that struck and killed a bicyclist likely will not face criminal charges,
    > authorities said Monday. Carl Davidson, 48, of Indianapolis died about 11:30 a.m. Friday when the
    > van collided with the bike he was riding on U.S. 52 near Ind. 47, just east of Thorntown. The
    > van's driver, Gary Baker, told officers he looked up, saw the bike and couldn't stop in time,
    > according to Maj. Jeff Keller of the Boone County Sheriff's Department. "We don't know if he was
    > looking at something in the van or what. This was an accident," Keller said. Police continued to
    > investigate, but no charges are pending, he said."
    >
    > The Boone County Prosecutor's Office can be found at:
    > http://www.bccn.boone.in.us/prosecutor/index.html
     
  3. Hunrobe

    Hunrobe Guest

    >[email protected] (Steven Goodridge)

    wrote:

    >Does anybody understand why this driver was not charged?
    >
    >http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/7/052836-7867-014.html

    The news story makes no mention of any reckless driving, any wilful act to threaten or endanger the
    cyclist by the driver, and no alcohol or drug usage by the driver. I'm not sure of Indiana law but
    absent one or more of those factors and assuming that the driver stopped at the scene to give aid I
    know there'd be no applicable *criminal* charge under Illinois law. It's sad when these things
    happen and it's natural to want to exact retribution but sympathy and revenge simply aren't a basis
    for charging someone criminally.

    Regards, Bob Hunt
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    26 Jun 2003 01:19:50 GMT,
    <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:

    >>[email protected] (Steven Goodridge)
    >
    >wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Does anybody understand why this driver was not charged?
    >>
    >>http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/7/052836-7867-014.html
    >
    >The news story makes no mention of any reckless driving, any wilful act to threaten or endanger the
    >cyclist by the driver, and no alcohol or drug usage by the driver. I'm not sure of Indiana law but
    >absent one or more of those factors and assuming that the driver stopped at the scene to give aid I
    >know there'd be no applicable *criminal* charge under Illinois law. It's sad when these things
    >happen and it's natural to want to exact retribution but sympathy and revenge simply aren't a basis
    >for charging someone criminally.
    >
    >Regards, Bob Hunt
    <quoted from article> The van's driver, Gary Baker, told officers he looked up, saw the bike and
    couldn't stop in time, according to Maj. Jeff Keller of the Boone County Sheriff's Department "We
    don't know if he was looking at something in the van or what. This was an accident," Keller said.
    </quoted from article>

    What about "negligence causing death"? Is that not "criminal"?

    It sounds to me like Pastor Fukwit wasn't watching where he was piloting a lethal object.
    --
    zk
     
  5. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:

    > What about "negligence causing death"? Is that not "criminal"?

    Apparently not in Il.

    > It sounds to me like Pastor Fukwit wasn't watching where he was piloting a lethal object.

    I'd hate to have been involved in the death or injury of anyone. That's one of my main reasons for
    my personal decision to not drive. My mere convenience just ain't worth the risk of harming others.
    I bet the van driver is in an horrible frame of mind, knowing that he killed someone. I wouldn't
    want to be in his shoes, or have his conscience. I hope that true, fair, equinamitous Justice
    happens in this case, for everybody involved.

    It /is/ sobering to be reminded that such things occur.

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
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  6. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0700, <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom
    Keats) wrote:

    >It /is/ sobering to be reminded that such things occur.

    I find the thought of being felled by a stunned turd in a tin can more sickening than sobering.

    The driver deserves to feel like shit. IMO, he is.
    --
    zk
     
  7. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    > Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0700, <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom
    > Keats) wrote:
    >
    >>It /is/ sobering to be reminded that such things occur.
    >
    > I find the thought of being felled by a stunned turd in a tin can more sickening than sobering.

    And yet we don't find the thought so reprehensible as to keep us from riding. We just be that much
    more mindful.

    > The driver deserves to feel like shit. IMO, he is.

    I think there's a good chance that he knows, right in his guts, that he's a killer. I'm not
    apologizing for anybody. I hope the local Justice doesn't, either.

    I find it really disturbing that a cyclist was killed, and it's reported that it's likely no charges
    will be laid -- before the investigation is even completed! What the hell is up with that?!!

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  8. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:07:33 -0700, <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom
    Keats) wrote:
    > Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    >> Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
    >>
    >>>It /is/ sobering to be reminded that such things occur.
    >>
    >> I find the thought of being felled by a stunned turd in a tin can more sickening than sobering.
    >
    >And yet we don't find the thought so reprehensible as to keep us from riding. We just be that much
    >more mindful.

    Mindful of what? Our own mortality? Our experience and belief systems reinforces the notion of
    immortality. Really, I guess there are worse ways to go and I give it no more thought than that. We
    do die and generally don't get to choose when.
    >
    >> The driver deserves to feel like shit. IMO, he is.
    >
    >I think there's a good chance that he knows, right in his guts, that he's a killer. I'm not
    >apologizing for anybody. I hope the local Justice doesn't, either.
    >
    Sure he had a shitty day, but not as bad as the dead cyclist's. If there's any chance for lawyers
    making his life hell, let them do their dirt and make him and a his family wish he'd died.

    >I find it really disturbing that a cyclist was killed, and it's reported that it's likely
    >no charges will be laid -- before the investigation is even completed! What the hell is up
    >with that?!!

    They didn't say he was clergy though I don't think they'd say, "to visit a patient who attends his
    church" if he'd been going to visit a fellow congregational member.

    Police may have been hesitant to arrest the preacher and possibly responding to the remorse he was
    undoubtedly displaying.

    You're right, it stinks.
    --
    zk
     
  9. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    > Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:07:33 -0700, <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom
    > Keats) wrote:
    >> Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > Mindful of what?

    Our vulnerability to ppl with way more power than they can handle in their hands. Ballistic cars
    with reptilian-brain guidance systems. And legislative systems that endorse the resulting mayhem.
    And we've gotta live amidst it all. It seems somewhere back in time, somebody arbitrarily decided
    that transportation has to be encumbered with struggle for survival. As if we don't already have
    enough to deal with, already.

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  10. On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:47:02 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Sure he had a shitty day, but not as bad as the dead cyclist's. If there's any chance for lawyers
    >making his life hell, let them do their dirt and make him and a his family wish he'd died.

    Yes, because of course his kids deserve to rot in hell because their father made a mistake.

    Moron.

    Jasper
     
  11. Jkpoulos7

    Jkpoulos7 Guest

    >I find it really disturbing that a cyclist was killed, and it's reported that it's likely
    >no charges will be laid -- before the investigation is even completed! What the hell is up
    >with that?!!
    >

    Usually an investigation precedes any charges. Some here seem to think that POB's never do anything
    stupid to cause their demise.
     
  12. [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > The news story makes no mention of any reckless driving, any wilful act to threaten or endanger
    > the cyclist by the driver, and no alcohol or drug usage by the driver. I'm not sure of Indiana law
    > but absent one or more of those factors and assuming that the driver stopped at the scene to give
    > aid I know there'd be no applicable *criminal* charge under Illinois law. It's sad when these
    > things happen and it's natural to want to exact retribution but sympathy and revenge simply aren't
    > a basis for charging someone criminally.

    But isn't "failure to reduce speed" a valid charge under these circumstances? And with such a moving
    violation, isn't misdemeanor death by vehicle the usual accompanying charge?

    There need not be any intent or ill will behind a traffic violation that still results in a
    misdemeanor death by vehicle charge.

    -Steve Goodridge
     
  13. Lee Tharps

    Lee Tharps Guest

    even if there are no criminal charges, the guy can still be held liable in a civil proceeding,
    and the family of the dead cyclist may and probably will reap some type of money for punitive
    damages, etc.

    there is no doubt that what killed the guy was the truck, so it shouldn't be too hard to make a case
    for a civil trial.

    _______________________________
    M Lee Tharps Dept of Chemical Engineering Carnegie Mellon University [email protected]
    www.espasticity.net

    319 Morewood Ave Apt 18 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ,-._,-. \/)"(\/ (_o_)
    (412) 687-2521 / \/)
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    ______________________________

    On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Steven Goodridge wrote:

    > [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > The news story makes no mention of any reckless driving, any wilful act to threaten or endanger
    > > the cyclist by the driver, and no alcohol or drug usage by the driver. I'm not sure of Indiana
    > > law but absent one or more of those factors and assuming that the driver stopped at the scene to
    > > give aid I know there'd be no applicable *criminal* charge under Illinois law. It's sad when
    > > these things happen and it's natural to want to exact retribution but sympathy and revenge
    > > simply aren't a basis for charging someone criminally.
    >
    > But isn't "failure to reduce speed" a valid charge under these circumstances? And with such a
    > moving violation, isn't misdemeanor death by vehicle the usual accompanying charge?
    >
    > There need not be any intent or ill will behind a traffic violation that still results in a
    > misdemeanor death by vehicle charge.
    >
    > -Steve Goodridge
     
  14. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:03:11 GMT, <[email protected]>, Jasper Janssen
    <[email protected]> yap-yap-yapped:

    >>Sure he had a shitty day, but not as bad as the dead cyclist's. If there's any chance for lawyers
    >>making his life hell, let them do their dirt and make him and a his family wish he'd died.
    >
    >Yes, because of course his kids deserve to rot in hell because their father made a mistake.
    >
    Oh cut the, "but think about the children", crap. You don't know whether he had kids or even
    considered that the man he killed could possibly have been somebody else's father.

    He should be left impaled on a stake or stomped into goo for being stupid by behaving irresponsibly
    while operating a deadly machine on our public roads. Lacking that satisfaction, I say let the
    lawyers suck out his marrow for the rest of his natural life.

    Think about the scum running around impaired on the legal drugs for which they never test and whose
    packages clearly warn against driving or operating machinery. Too many shitbags get away with that
    kind of murderous behaviour because they're drivers in a car-centric society where cyclists are
    regarded as road hazards and driving is wrongly considered a right and a necessity.

    >Moron.
    >
    Choke.
    --
    zk
     
  15. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Jkpoulos7) writes:

    > Usually an investigation precedes any charges.

    For the press to publish "The driver of a van that struck and killed a bicyclist likely will not
    face criminal charges" while the investigation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is still
    underway, is haywire. Maybe the press's speculations will prove correct, but that's not the point.
    What /is/ the point, is that publicizing such opinions might undermine the legal and judicial
    processes before they even get off the ground.

    And if this "information" was released to the press by the Sheriff's Dep't, that indicates a
    disturbing lackadaisicalness about the incident and subsequent investigation on the part of the
    authorities.

    People are all too willing to take traffic fatalities as a "well, what are ya gonna do"
    matter-of-course. It sux. Roads & streets aren't supposed to be a battlefield.

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
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  16. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,

    > Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > What about "negligence causing death"? Is that not "criminal"?
    >
    > Apparently not in Il.

    Suppose this driver had hit another slow-moving vehicle, like a farm tractor, and killed its driver?
    Would he have been charged with negligence then, under IL law? Why is a bicycle any different?

    Matt O.
     
  17. In article <Pine.LNX.4.55L-032.0306261131060.10715 @unix46.andrew.cmu.edu>,
    [email protected] says...
    >
    > even if there are no criminal charges, the guy can still be held liable in a civil proceeding,
    > and the family of the dead cyclist may and probably will reap some type of money for punitive
    > damages, etc.
    >
    > there is no doubt that what killed the guy was the truck, so it shouldn't be too hard to make a
    > case for a civil trial.
    >
    >
    >

    These days that's a lot better than the 6 months probation he would probably get for involuntary
    manslaughter. And if I'm not mistaken, if he was charged, and then found innocent, that would make
    the civil case all that much harder to make.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  18. Dimpled Chad

    Dimpled Chad Guest

    On 26 Jun 2003, Matt O'Toole opined:

    > Suppose this driver had hit another slow-moving vehicle, like a farm tractor, and killed its
    > driver? Would he have been charged with negligence then, under IL law?

    Probably not.

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  19. Dimpled Chad

    Dimpled Chad Guest

    On 26 Jun 2003, Chris Phillipo opined:

    > And if I'm not mistaken, if he was charged, and then found innocent, that would make the civil
    > case all that much harder to make.

    Depends, as the burden of proof is different in criminal vs. civil cases. I hate to bring it up,
    but a good example is OJ, found not guilty of the murder charges but guilty of the civil wrongful
    death suit....

    Chad

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  20. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    > "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    >
    > > Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
    > >
    > > > What about "negligence causing death"? Is that not "criminal"?
    > >
    > > Apparently not in Il.
    >
    > Suppose this driver had hit another slow-moving vehicle, like a farm tractor, and killed its
    > driver? Would he have been charged with negligence then, under IL law? Why is a bicycle any
    > different?
    >
    > Matt O.
    >
    >
    >

    If the tractor wasn't registered to travel on the road or didn't have the required saftey marker in
    place there's a good change the tractor driver would be the one charged. A bicycle is different
    because although it is legally allowed on the road it is not held to any of the registration or
    safety equipment requirements that motorized vehicles are except maybe a helmet law in some states.
    The best you can expect is for this to be treated like a vehicle/pedestrian collision anbd I read
    about pedestrians getting bounced off the road allt he time with no charges laid.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
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