drivetrain for my road bike

[jose1]

I am building my own road bike. My questions starts when it comes to buying the proper drivetrain parts. I really don't know how to match up cranks to derailuers. I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple crank set at a better price. Is it true? and if so what front and back derailuers should I purchase. Also, what more will I get if I purchase a 9 speed system rather than 8 speed system other than one more gear.

I've been looking for parts at this mail order company Bike Nashbar. They seem to have good prices on parts. Better then store prices.

 

[Dale Benjamin]

I disagree with the proposition that a 50/34 double will give equal
performance of a triple, especially on street riding. Supposing a
52/40/28 triple, you'll have a wider range. Pick a rear cluster that
will give you a good startout gear used with the 40, save the 28 for
when you are fatigued and have a long hill in front of you.

Ever try shifting the chain to the 20 tooth gear on a 13/28 rear cluster
when approaching a stop? Kind of chancy. But few people really need a
34 - 28 combo to start out on a level.

Anything Shimano is decent enough if you can set it up right for the
derailleurs.

More headaches is what you get with a 9 speed rear cluster. You need
the range, for a healthy and ambitious young cyclist, a 12 - 24 seems
good. A well designed 6 speed would do the job better than any 8 speeds
I've seen at nashbar, but progress seems to be in reverse for the past
decade in the bicycle industry.

Think about how much time you really spend going up steep hills, and
compare that with how much time you spend going on near level pavement.
Young folk can put out power comfortably over a wide range of cadences.

9 speed clusters and wheels dished for them are for real lightweights,
if that's you, fine. It's not for everybody.



"jose1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I am building my own road bike. My questions starts when it comes to
> buying the proper drivetrain parts. I really don't know how to match
> up cranks to derailuers. I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth
> chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming
> out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The
> company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
> crank set at a better price. Is it true? and if so what front and
back
> derailuers should I purchase. Also, what more will I get if I
purchase
> a 9 speed system rather than 8 speed system other than one more gear.
>
> I've been looking for parts at this mail order company Bike Nashbar.
> They seem to have good prices on parts. Better then store prices.
>
>
> --
> jose1
>

 

[Arthur Harris]

"jose1" wrote:
> I am building my own road bike. My questions starts when it comes to
> buying the proper drivetrain parts. I really don't know how to match
> up cranks to derailuers.

You've got to start by deciding what gears you need. Do you have a road bike
now? If so, what kind of gearing does it have, and is the gearing
appropriate for the kind of riding you do? Do you wish you had lower gears
for the hills? Or closer spaced gears, etc.?

> I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth
> chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming
> out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The
> company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
> crank set at a better price. Is it true? and if so what front and back
> derailuers should I purchase. Also, what more will I get if I purchase
> a 9 speed system rather than 8 speed system other than one more gear.

The standard road setup these days is a 53/39 crankset, and something like a
12-25 rear 9-speed cassette. That gives a high gear (53 x 12) that's bigger
than most riders need, and a low gear (39 x 25) that may not be low enough
for steep hills.

With a 50/34 crankset you would have (for the same cassette) a more
practical top gear, and low gear that would make climbing easier. With the
lower low gear you might not need a triple. If the 50 x 25 low is not low
enough, you could go with a 12-27 or a custom cassette like a 12-28, 12-30,
or 12-32. See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#9

You can probably use a standard road rear der with up to a 28 or 30T rear
cog. For a 32T, you'd want to use a mountain rear der (like a Shimano Deore
LX).

As for 9 vs. 8 speeds, there's not a huge difference. But if you're looking
for a wide range of gears, the 9 speed will give slightly smaller gaps. And
8 speed is a step closer to obsolescence, making it harder to upgrade
components.

> I've been looking for parts at this mail order company Bike Nashbar.
> They seem to have good prices on parts. Better then store prices.

If you know what you want/need and they have it, they are a good source that
I've used for many years. Don't expect to get the advice/guidance that you'd
get at a bike shop.

Art Harris

 

[Arthur Harris]

"Arthur Harris" wrote:

> If the 50 x 25 low is not low enough, you could go with a 12-27 or a
> custom cassette like a 12-28, 12-30, or 12-32.

Oops. That should read, "If the 34 x 25 is not low enough..."

Art Harris

 

[Jeff Starr]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:35:28 -0800, "Dale Benjamin"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Ever try shifting the chain to the 20 tooth gear on a 13/28 rear cluster
>when approaching a stop? Kind of chancy. But few people really need a
>34 - 28 combo to start out on a level.

What do you mean by the above statement? It really doesn't make sense.
With properly adjusted derailleurs, it is no problem to shift into
any gears. If it is chancy, it is then rider inexperience or
ineptness.


>Anything Shimano is decent enough if you can set it up right for the
>derailleurs.
Or anything Campagnolo.
For the OP - Even though you can mix and match different groups,
within a manufacturers line, it might be simplest for use to choose a
group and use most of the various components within. Your budget will
be a determining factor in a lot of your choices.

>
>More headaches is what you get with a 9 speed rear cluster. You need
>the range, for a healthy and ambitious young cyclist, a 12 - 24 seems
>good. A well designed 6 speed would do the job better than any 8 speeds
>I've seen at nashbar, but progress seems to be in reverse for the past
>decade in the bicycle industry.
What is causing you headaches? A properly setup 9 or 10-speed will be
mostly problem free.
For the OP, go with a minimum of 9-speed and if you go with
Campagnolo, go 10-speed. My reasoning for this, is that there is very
limited choice in new, current 8-speed components, quite a bit of
choice in 9-speed with Shimano,with more choices coming for 10-speed.
Campagnolo offers 10-speed in many of their groups, so the options are
best with the 10-speed.

I would recommend that you do a lot of research and really educate
yourself, before making any decisions. Also, it would help us to make
suggestions, if we knew your budget, type of riding, your abilities,
and even your weight.

>Think about how much time you really spend going up steep hills, and
>compare that with how much time you spend going on near level pavement.
>Young folk can put out power comfortably over a wide range of cadences.
The amount and types of hills should be considered when deciding on a
double, triple, or compact crankset.

>9 speed clusters and wheels dished for them are for real lightweights,
>if that's you, fine. It's not for everybody.
I guess if you consider anybody under about 300lbs a lightweight, then
the above is true. A good wheelbuilder can design and build a 9 or
10-speed wheel that will be just fine with a heavey rider. It will
involve more spokes and a well choosen rim. Any of the pros on this
forum, like Peter, Sheldon, or Andrew Muzi, can build a 9-speed wheel
for a heavy rider.

And once again for the OP, Nashbar is good, also consider Performance
Bike online, if you are going to purchase a lot from them, look into
Team Performance. For $20, you get 10% towards your next purchase,
upgraded shipping, and sometimes special Team Performance pricing. I
know last year They had some really good prices on Dura-Ace triple
components.

Remember the advice given online comes from people with lots of
different ideas and levels of knowledge, so be sure to do the
research. As you can see, I don't agree with Dale's info and others
may not agree with me.


Life is Good!
Jeff

 

[Tom Sherman]

Dale Benjamin wrote:

> ...
> Ever try shifting the chain to the 20 tooth gear on a 13/28 rear cluster
> when approaching a stop? Kind of chancy. But few people really need a
> 34 - 28 combo to start out on a level....

I have no problem shifting down to the 34T cog on my bike or the 32T cog
on my trike when coming to a stop. However, I use SRAM Plasma
(twist-grip) and Shimano bar-end shifters, respectively, not brifteurs
or trigger shifters which may help.

> 9 speed clusters and wheels dished for them are for real lightweights,
> if that's you, fine. It's not for everybody.

My 9-speed wheels hold up just fine. They are 36-spoke on Sun CR-18 and
Velocity Taipan rims. They are ISO 406-mm diameter, which of course
makes them stronger than equivalent ISO 622-mm wheels.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:35:10 +1100, jose1
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth
>chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming
>out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The
>company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
>crank set at a better price. Is it true?

I am a great fan of 50/34 cranksets. Within the normal range of road
riding, you can achieve a wider range than a standard double and
similar range to a triple. You will have fewer actual, usable gears,
than a triple and there will be larger 'gaps' between some gear
changes. A double chainset is a simpler mechanism than a triple and
easier to adjust. The chainrings will wear faster.

For compact cranks, a larger number of gears per cassette is
productive. In my opinion, a triple is fine with a 3 x 7 but 3 x 8 is
fine also.

Your choice of rear derailleurs with the double will depend upon your
selection of gears. Most road bicycle do fine with 50/34 and 12/27
or 13/28,29 (road cassette) with a standard cage rear derailleur. My
tandem, a 50/34 x 12/34 needs a longer cage rear derailleur. In
Shimano, DA, Ultegra, 105 etc. triple rear derailleurs shoud work fine
as will MTB ones. In Campy Medium or Triple rear derailleurs work for
MTB, wide range cassettes. There are wider gaps with the MTB
cassettes.

You choice of front derailleur can be a road triple or double. Your
upshifts from 34 to 50 will be dependant on the design of the shift
assists on the 50t ring.

For my road bikes, my usual choice is 50/34 with either Campy 13/26 or
12/25. I found that people that I ride with don't run away from me
with 50/13. When I'm headed for the mountains, 12/27 or 13/29 work as
well as the triple I used to use.

I don't think that the current choices of compact doubles is any less
expensive than the equivalent triples. The triples may cost less.

 

[jose1]

I will assume that you choose the 6 speed. Sounds like you could ride up a hill using only your big toe. I am a young guy with fairly good leg strength. I don't seem to peter out very often,even after a hill. I was leaning more to the triple set. I figured that would as you suggest give me a good amount of gearing. Any recomendations on reading material on proper gearing. I have got a book by Zinn on mountain bikes. It's pretty good but he dosen't talk too much about gearing.

 

[jose1]

"jose1" wrote:
> I am building my own road bike. My questions starts when it comes to
> buying the proper drivetrain parts. I really don't know how to match
> up cranks to derailuers.

You've got to start by deciding what gears you need. Do you have a road bike
now? If so, what kind of gearing does it have, and is the gearing
appropriate for the kind of riding you do? Do you wish you had lower gears
for the hills? Or closer spaced gears, etc.?

> I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth
> chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming
> out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The
> company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
> crank set at a better price. Is it true? and if so what front and back
> derailuers should I purchase. Also, what more will I get if I purchase
> a 9 speed system rather than 8 speed system other than one more gear.

The standard road setup these days is a 53/39 crankset, and something like a
12-25 rear 9-speed cassette. That gives a high gear (53 x 12) that's bigger
than most riders need, and a low gear (39 x 25) that may not be low enough
for steep hills.

With a 50/34 crankset you would have (for the same cassette) a more
practical top gear, and low gear that would make climbing easier. With the
lower low gear you might not need a triple. If the 50 x 25 low is not low
enough, you could go with a 12-27 or a custom cassette like a 12-28, 12-30,
or 12-32. See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#9

You can probably use a standard road rear der with up to a 28 or 30T rear
cog. For a 32T, you'd want to use a mountain rear der (like a Shimano Deore
LX).

As for 9 vs. 8 speeds, there's not a huge difference. But if you're looking
for a wide range of gears, the 9 speed will give slightly smaller gaps. And
8 speed is a step closer to obsolescence, making it harder to upgrade
components.

> I've been looking for parts at this mail order company Bike Nashbar.
> They seem to have good prices on parts. Better then store prices.

If you know what you want/need and they have it, they are a good source that
I've used for many years. Don't expect to get the advice/guidance that you'd
get at a bike shop.

Art Harris

Any pratical reading material on gearing you suggest?

 

[jose1]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:35:10 +1100, jose1
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've seen double cranks with 50/34 tooth
>chainrings that promote less gapping when shifting and less bottoming
>out in largest and smallest chainring and cog. Which sounds cool. The
>company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
>crank set at a better price. Is it true?

I am a great fan of 50/34 cranksets. Within the normal range of road
riding, you can achieve a wider range than a standard double and
similar range to a triple. You will have fewer actual, usable gears,
than a triple and there will be larger 'gaps' between some gear
changes. A double chainset is a simpler mechanism than a triple and
easier to adjust. The chainrings will wear faster.

For compact cranks, a larger number of gears per cassette is
productive. In my opinion, a triple is fine with a 3 x 7 but 3 x 8 is
fine also.

Your choice of rear derailleurs with the double will depend upon your
selection of gears. Most road bicycle do fine with 50/34 and 12/27
or 13/28,29 (road cassette) with a standard cage rear derailleur. My
tandem, a 50/34 x 12/34 needs a longer cage rear derailleur. In
Shimano, DA, Ultegra, 105 etc. triple rear derailleurs shoud work fine
as will MTB ones. In Campy Medium or Triple rear derailleurs work for
MTB, wide range cassettes. There are wider gaps with the MTB
cassettes.

You choice of front derailleur can be a road triple or double. Your
upshifts from 34 to 50 will be dependant on the design of the shift
assists on the 50t ring.

For my road bikes, my usual choice is 50/34 with either Campy 13/26 or
12/25. I found that people that I ride with don't run away from me
with 50/13. When I'm headed for the mountains, 12/27 or 13/29 work as
well as the triple I used to use.

I don't think that the current choices of compact doubles is any less
expensive than the equivalent triples. The triples may cost less.

This larger gapping you talk about is it irratating. And those actual gears you don't have, are they ones that would be nice to have. The vision I get when I think about the double crank 50/34 is a suppler ride in lower and higher than with most cranks. I would think lower and higher gears is where riders do most of their work. Leaving the middle ground gears for cooling off. If what I am perceiving is that I will be able to stay in the lower and higher gears for a longer time it might cool.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Dale Benjamin wrote:

> 9 speed clusters and wheels dished for them are for real lightweights,
> if that's you, fine. It's not for everybody.

At least with Shimano, there's no difference in dish between a 9-10 speed wheel
and an 8 speed one. You'd have to go back to 7 speed to get a stronger wheel.
Or you could use an asymmetric rim, to greatly reduce or even eliminate the
dish.

Matt O.

 

[Arthur Harris]

"jose1" wrote:
> The
> vision I get when I think about the double crank 50/34 is a suppler
> ride in lower and higher than with most cranks. I would think lower
> and higher gears is where riders do most of their work. Leaving the
> middle ground gears for cooling off. If what I am perceiving is that I
> will be able to stay in the lower and higher gears for a longer time it
> might cool.

I don't follow what you mean by "suppler ride." Generally, you choose gears
based on the slope of the road and wind conditions. The idea is to keep your
pedaling cadence fairly constant over a variety of conditions. Actually,
most riding is done in the middle gears.

Have you been riding a multi-speed road bike for a while? If not, I don't
think there's any way to know what you need.

Check out Sheldon's gear calculator at:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Art Harris

 

[jose1]

"jose1" wrote:
> The
> vision I get when I think about the double crank 50/34 is a suppler
> ride in lower and higher than with most cranks. I would think lower
> and higher gears is where riders do most of their work. Leaving the
> middle ground gears for cooling off. If what I am perceiving is that I
> will be able to stay in the lower and higher gears for a longer time it
> might cool.

I don't follow what you mean by "suppler ride." Generally, you choose gears
based on the slope of the road and wind conditions. The idea is to keep your
pedaling cadence fairly constant over a variety of conditions. Actually,
most riding is done in the middle gears.

Have you been riding a multi-speed road bike for a while? If not, I don't
think there's any way to know what you need.

Check out Sheldon's gear calculator at:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Art Harris

I have, however it's just recently that I've been trying to get myself comfortable with the actual workings of a bike. I guess I used the the wrong words. What I meant by "supple" was the following. When I am in the the bigger chain ring I have to used alot of energy to pedal. That gear has a harder feel to it. Or what I have been told is called bottoming out. I meant "supple" by will the gear feel a little less hard. Thanks for Sheldon.

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:24:59 +1100, jose1
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This larger gapping you talk about is it irratating. And those actual
>gears you don't have, are they ones that would be nice to have. The
>vision I get when I think about the double crank 50/34 is a suppler
>ride in lower and higher than with most cranks. I would think lower
>and higher gears is where riders do most of their work. Leaving the
>middle ground gears for cooling off. If what I am perceiving is that I
>will be able to stay in the lower and higher gears for a longer time it
>might cool.
>

I don't really understand what you are asking. I don't know what cool
is. With 50x34 I find myself holding the large ring crossed to bigger
cogs before dropping to the 34. Likewise, I'm more crossed 34 to
smaller cogs. That's in comparison to a 53/39. I rarely look at what
gears I'm in and go by feel.

With 53/39 I find that I can stay with the chain in the center set of
cogs and not wander to the edges too frequently.

I'm not a smooth stroker. I don't find that I feel many gaps using a
13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23,26 cassette with the 50/34. I don't feel I
miss much with a 9sp Shimano 12/27 either.

Compact cranks, 110 bolt pattern, were available probably before 130
bolt pattern doubles and have just become 'cool'.

 

[Dale Benjamin]

Fifteen years ago the local bicycle shop would modify a 6 speed to
whatever you wanted at no extra charge, but those are out of production.

I don't get out much anymore, hardly a hundred miles a month over two or
three rides. Taking it easy going up a hill isn't always easy, and if I
get breathing real hard that complicates balance. With a low enough
gear, the muscular exertion of going uphill isn't a big deal, balance
is.

There are several calculators on the web where you input your front and
back gears and they print out the ratios or gear inches, indicating how
far the cycle moves per revolution of the pedal crank. Input your
present setup. Then when you're out riding, try to figure where you
need another gear, and which ones you have that you could do without.

I don't read much anymore, no recomendations.


"jose1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I will assume that you choose the 6 speed. Sounds like you could ride
> up a hill using only your big toe. I am a young guy with fairly good
> leg strength. I don't seem to peter out very often,even after a hill.
> I was leaning more to the triple set. I figured that would as you
> suggest give me a good amount of gearing. Any recomendations on
> reading material on proper gearing. I have got a book by Zinn on
> mountain bikes. It's pretty good but he dosen't talk too much about
> gearing.
>
>
> --
> jose1
>

 

[Dale Benjamin]

"Jeff Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:35:28 -0800, "Dale Benjamin"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Ever try shifting the chain to the 20 tooth gear on a 13/28 rear
cluster
> >when approaching a stop? Kind of chancy. But few people really need
a
> >34 - 28 combo to start out on a level.
>
> What do you mean by the above statement? It really doesn't make sense.
> With properly adjusted derailleurs, it is no problem to shift into
> any gears. If it is chancy, it is then rider inexperience or
> ineptness.

Quite true, I'm sure. But even when I rode several thousand miles per
year I didn't want to fuss around trying to catch the next to the next
to lowest cog on the back when a traffic light turned.


> >More headaches is what you get with a 9 speed rear cluster. You need
> >the range, for a healthy and ambitious young cyclist, a 12 - 24 seems
> >good. A well designed 6 speed would do the job better than any 8
speeds
> >I've seen at nashbar, but progress seems to be in reverse for the
past
> >decade in the bicycle industry.
> What is causing you headaches? A properly setup 9 or 10-speed will be
> mostly problem free.

I like a good range of gears without trivial differences in between so I
don't have to skip three cogs to get an upshift.

> For the OP, go with a minimum of 9-speed and if you go with
> Campagnolo, go 10-speed. My reasoning for this, is that there is very
> limited choice in new, current 8-speed components, quite a bit of
> choice in 9-speed with Shimano,with more choices coming for 10-speed.
> Campagnolo offers 10-speed in many of their groups, so the options are
> best with the 10-speed.
>
> I would recommend that you do a lot of research and really educate
> yourself, before making any decisions. Also, it would help us to make
> suggestions, if we knew your budget, type of riding, your abilities,
> and even your weight.
>
> >Think about how much time you really spend going up steep hills, and
> >compare that with how much time you spend going on near level
pavement.
> >Young folk can put out power comfortably over a wide range of
cadences.
> The amount and types of hills should be considered when deciding on a
> double, triple, or compact crankset.
>
> >9 speed clusters and wheels dished for them are for real
lightweights,
> >if that's you, fine. It's not for everybody.
> I guess if you consider anybody under about 300lbs a lightweight, then
> the above is true. A good wheelbuilder can design and build a 9 or
> 10-speed wheel that will be just fine with a heavey rider. It will
> involve more spokes and a well choosen rim. Any of the pros on this
> forum, like Peter, Sheldon, or Andrew Muzi, can build a 9-speed wheel
> for a heavy rider.

I'm sure. However, some of us are not in a position to spend that much
money. I built a few myself dished for six or seven speed freewheels,
and I definitely would have some qualms about going for a more extreme
dish.

Last time I checked the Campagnolo website they had a weight limit for
their nine and ten speed cassettes, see
http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=all&cid=5&pid=180&key=comp&rev=1


> And once again for the OP, Nashbar is good, also consider Performance
> Bike online, if you are going to purchase a lot from them, look into
> Team Performance. For $20, you get 10% towards your next purchase,
> upgraded shipping, and sometimes special Team Performance pricing. I
> know last year They had some really good prices on Dura-Ace triple
> components.
>
> Remember the advice given online comes from people with lots of
> different ideas and levels of knowledge, so be sure to do the
> research. As you can see, I don't agree with Dale's info and others
> may not agree with me.

Very good. We're all at different stages of development ( or
degradation! ), progressing at various rates, different goals,
backgrounds, roads, traffic, etc. Doing one's personal best means
getting the cycle set up for yourself now, and realizing that in six
months there will be some changes desired in any event.

 

[[email protected]]

Essentially "compact gearing" is the old "Alpine" gearing, that Frank
Berto used to rail against in favor of half step, & half step + granny.
However there was a huge difference back in the early '80s. Bad front &
rear detailers (compared to today?s) & only 5 or 6 speeds were
available.
I have to laugh, Alpine gearing, here it is back again as "cool" "new"
& "compact" reinvented by modern technology.
Happy New Year, John

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

jose-<< am building my own road bike. My questions starts when it comes to
buying the proper drivetrain parts. I really don't know how to match
up cranks to derailuers. >><BR><BR>

Then says-<< The
company says that this crank set gives you the performance of a triple
crank set at a better price. Is it true? and if so what front and back
derailuers should I purchase. Also, what more will I get if I purchase
a 9 speed system rather than 8 speed system other than one more gear.

I've been looking for parts at this mail order company Bike Nashbar.
They seem to have good prices on parts. Better then store prices. >><BR><BR>

I suggest that you call nashbar and ask them...they don't know? Imagine that.
Then I say go talk to a good local bike shop, talk to the guys in back that
really know this stuff and then buy the parts there. I know they may be a
little more $ but they will do it correctly(hopefully) and in the long run, you
will save $ by having a local shop that you can depend on.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"