Driving Licence Endorsements. Do NOT Apply To Cyclists

[[email protected]]

The current Cyclists being Nicked In London thread has several posts
concerning whether or not a persons driving licence can be endorsed for
an offence committed while cycling. The general consensus being that it
can't but nobody knowing where it says so. Rather than add to that
thread I decided to post this answer as a new thread as this question
seems to get raised from time to time.
After a bit of digging I find the relevent Act is The Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988 which is available online
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_3.htm#mdiv28

Section 28 says
"Penalty points to be attributed to an offence.

28.-(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence involving
obligatory or discretionary disqualification, the number of penalty
points to be attributed to the offence, subject to subsection (2)
below, is-

(a) in the case of an offence under a provision of the Traffic
Acts specified in column 1 of Part I of Schedule 2 to this Act "

So click on schedule 2 and scroll down to RTA section 36.(which covers
traffic light offences)
The relevent phrase there is
"Discretionary, if committed in respect of a MOTOR VEHICLE by failure
to comply with an indication given by a sign specified for the purposes
of this paragraph in regulations under RTA section 36." (my capitals
for motor vehicle)
So the Act is clearly indicating that disqualification which can
result from penalty points totting up can only apply to motor vehicle
users. So fail to comply with a traffic light in a motor vehicle your
licence is endorsed.
Fail to comply on a cycle No endorsement. Simple!

As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
- 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..

Iain

 

[Tony Raven]

[email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
>
> As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
> Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
> And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
> - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
>

OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
taking of motor vehicles." ;-)


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[David Martin]

Tony Raven wrote:
> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
> >
> > As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
> > Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
> > And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
> > - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
> >
>
> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
> taking of motor vehicles." ;-)

Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

...d

 

[Tony Raven]

David Martin wrote on 17/09/2006 08:57 +0100:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
>>> As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
>>> Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
>>> And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
>>> - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
>>>
>> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
>> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
>> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
>> taking of motor vehicles." ;-)
>
> Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)
>

A MOB you mean?

Interesting you get twice as many points for trying to steal a car as
you do for manslaughter or culpable homicide with a car.
(bottom of
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_7.htm#sdiv2)


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[naked_draughtsman]

Tony Raven wrote:
> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
> >
> > As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
> > Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
> > And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
> > - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
> >
>
> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or

The document is an interesting insight into our legal system:

"Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
table correctly)

peter

 

[[email protected]]

naked_draughtsman wrote:

> "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
> table correctly)

DVLA create a Driver Record for any non licence holder convicted of an
endorsable offence so it is possible for people to don't have a licence
to be given points which will show up if they obtain a licence before
the points are expired.

Iain

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> naked_draughtsman wrote:
>
> > "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
> > table correctly)


My brain is getting sore reading this stuff so I will just add one more
clarification.
Sec 87 of the RTA 1988 was amended by the RTA 1991. One changed
being that section 87 covering driving licences was amended to
17.-(1) In subsection (1) of section 87 of the Road Traffic Act
1988 (offence for person to drive if he is not the holder of a licence)
for the words "if he is not the holder of" there shall be substituted
the words "otherwise than in accordance with".

In practice this means that for example a learner driver with a
provisional licence who is otherwise legal and has a qualified driver
etc but is not showing L plates would also be charged under sect 87 for
not complying with the condition of the licence (to display L plates).
This would be the type of scenario where he might get away with a 2
point endorsement.
Driving without holding any licence licence invalidates any insurance
as well so the driver who has no licence at all will get at least 6
points for the no insurance offence.
Iain

 

[Pete Whelan]

Tony Raven wrote:
> David Martin wrote on 17/09/2006 08:57 +0100:
>
>> Tony Raven wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
>>>
>>>> As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
>>>> Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
>>>> And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
>>>> - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
>>>>
>>> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
>>> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
>>> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
>>> taking of motor vehicles." ;-)
>>
>>
>> Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)
>>
>
> A MOB you mean?
>
> Interesting you get twice as many points for trying to steal a car as
> you do for manslaughter or culpable homicide with a car.
> (bottom of
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880053_en_7.htm#sdiv2)
>
>

shirley that is infinitely more than the ther offence, which carries no
points

 

[ian henden]

"naked_draughtsman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
>> >
>> > As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
>> > Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
>> > And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
>> > - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
>> >
>>
>> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
>> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
>> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
>
> The document is an interesting insight into our legal system:
>
> "Driving without a licence - 2 points on licence" (if I've read the
> table correctly)
>
As has been pointed out to those bereft of brain cell on previous occasions,
the awarding of points has the effect of those points going on the
individual's record (which will be created if he does not already have one)
at DVLA. They will then be added to a licence should one be issued at some
time in the future (if the points are still "live").

Thus someone accruing points at, say, age 15, might find themselves
disbarred from even obtaining a licence for some years past the minimum age
for holding a licence.

Simple.

 

[POHB]

ian henden wrote:
> Thus someone accruing points at, say, age 15, might find themselves
> disbarred from even obtaining a licence for some years past the minimum age
> for holding a licence.
>
Happened to a mate at school. He was nicked for riding an illegal
moped on the road so his first license had points when he got it.

 

[Alan Braggins]

David Martin wrote:
>Tony Raven wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote on 17/09/2006 01:24 +0100:
>> >
>> > As an aside the right hand column shows the number of penalty points.
>> > Normally 3 as we all know but for example 6 to 8 for no insurance etc.
>> > And no points shown for cycling only offences like RTA 1988 sections 28
>> > - 32 bcause your licence can not be endorsed for cycling offences..
>>
>> OTOH you could apparently get points on your driving license as a
>> cyclist for "An offence under section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 (going
>> equipped for stealing, etc.) committed with reference to the theft or
>> taking of motor vehicles." ;-)
>
>Surely that is as a motorist riding a bike ;-)

You could be a non-motorist cyclist going equipped but planning on a mate
who doesn't have the tools but can drive driving once you had broken in....