Drugs are Cool.

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by crit PRO, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. crit PRO

    crit PRO Guest

    --------------------
    McGwire Refuses to Say if He Used Steroids
    --------------------

    By HOWARD FENDRICH and RONALD BLUM
    AP Sports Writers

    March 17, 2005, 7:48 PM CST

    WASHINGTON -- Lined up shoulder to shoulder, some of baseball's biggest
    stars told Congress Thursday that steroids are a problem for the sport
    but denied there is widespread use. Mark McGwire, choking back tears at
    times, repeatedly refused to say if he took the drugs when he was
    helping fuel a surge in the sport's popularity with his prodigious home
    runs.

    On a day of extraordinary theater, House Government Reform Committee
    members professed their love of baseball before attacking the sport's
    new drug policy and warning Congress could get involved if stronger
    steps aren't taken. Except for admitted steroid user Jose Canseco, the
    five players repeatedly ducked pointed questions. Major League Baseball
    commissioner Bud Selig watched from a few feet away, waiting more than
    eight hours for his chance to respond.

    Canseco -- whose best-selling book, "Juiced," drew lawmakers' attention
    -- said anew that he used performance-enhancing drugs as a player.
    Baltimore Orioles teammates Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro said they
    haven't.

    McGwire in the past has denied using steroids but under oath repeatedly
    declined to respond directly, saying his lawyers advised him not to
    answer certain questions.

    McGwire, peering at lawmakers over reading glasses and his goatee now
    flecked with gray, was pressed to say whether he had taken
    performance-enhancing substances or whether he could provide details
    about use by other players. He responded repeatedly, "I'm not here to
    talk about the past."

    Asked by Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., whether he was asserting his
    Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself, McGwire said: "I'm
    not here to talk about the past. I'm here to be positive about this
    subject."

    Asked whether use of steroids was cheating, McGwire said: "That's not
    for me to determine."

    Earlier, choking back tears, he said he knew that steroid use could be
    dangerous and pledged to discourage young athletes from using them.

    All of the players offered condolences to the parents of two young
    baseball players who committed suicide after using steroids. The
    parents testified, too, along with medical experts who talked about the
    health risks of steroids.

    "Players that are guilty of taking steroids are not only cheaters --
    you are cowards," said Donald Hooton of Plano, Texas, whose son,
    Taylor, was 17 when he hanged himself in July 2003.

    Canseco's book included claims that he injected McGwire with steroids
    when they were teammates with the Oakland Athletics and that Palmeiro
    used the drugs. In a tense scene, they sat at the same table, never
    directly addressing each other. During a break, Canseco was left out
    while the other players huddled.

    "Steroids were part of the game, and I don't think anybody really
    wanted to take a stance on it," Canseco said. "If Congress does nothing
    about this issue, it will go on forever."

    Several congressmen gushed about the sport, recalling how as children
    they collected baseball cards and autographs and looked up to players.
    With rare exceptions, members of the committee appeared deferential and
    unwilling to press the players, saving their harshest criticism for
    baseball officials.

    "Why should we believe that the baseball commissioner and the baseball
    union will want to do something when we have a 30-year record of them
    not responding to this problem?" asked Rep. Henry Waxman of California,
    the committee's ranking Democrat.

    The wood-paneled hearing room was full when the players appeared, with
    camera crews lining the walls and clogging the aisles. Much of the
    crowd cleared out when the players left, leaving empty seats for
    Selig's testimony.

    Lawmakers questioned baseball's new testing plan, including a provision
    allowing for fines instead of suspensions. A first offense could cost
    10 days out of a six-month season, or perhaps a $10,000 fine.

    But Selig said he would suspend anyone who fails a test, adding: "There
    will be no exceptions."

    While boosting strength, steroids also can lead to dramatic mood
    swings, heart disease, cancer, sterility and depression. Using most
    steroids without a doctor's prescription for medical purposes has been
    illegal since 1991. Baseball banned steroids in September 2002 and
    began testing for them with penalties in 2004.

    Questions about steroids in baseball have intensified as home runs have
    increased. McGwire and Sosa were widely credited with helping restore
    baseball's popularity in 1998 when they chased Roger Maris' season
    record of 61 homers. McGwire ended up with 70, a mark that lasted only
    three seasons before Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants hit 73.

    Bonds and Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees were not called to the
    hearing. They testified in 2003 to a San Francisco grand jury
    investigating a steroid-distribution ring, and there were concerns if
    they spoke to Congress it could hinder the probe.

    Baseball fought attempts to compel players to testify, but Waxman and
    committee Chairman Tom Davis, R-Va., threatened to pursue contempt
    charges.

    More than four hours after the hearing began, the players walked in one
    by one. Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling, a vocal critic of
    steroid use, was the first to enter. He sat at one end of the witness
    table, with Canseco at the other. Palmeiro, Sosa and McGwire were in
    between.

    Schilling took a shot at Canseco, saying claims in the former slugger's
    book "should be seen for what they are: an attempt to make money at the
    expense of others."

    But Schilling also backtracked from his earlier claims of rampant
    steroid use, saying "the issue was grossly overstated by people,
    including myself." He estimated that only five to 10 of his teammates
    in the last 15 years used steroids but said he had never actually seen
    anyone take the drugs.
    Copyright (c) 2005, The Associated Press
     
    Tags:


  2. crit PRO

    crit PRO Guest

    "The letter said current practices undermined the right to privacy of
    athletes and their defense."

    -quote from the velonews link......incredible!

    Next thing you'll tell me is driving a car in the US is a right, not a
    privilege.

    Get the lawyers involved. My Pro Team and NGB has no right to test me
    for drugs. Right.

    clean PRO
     
  3. McGuire did not come off looking very well.

    Bud Selig looked bad too.

    If MLB doesn't do something it could lose its Clayton/Sherman Act exemption.

    No Union or Collective Bargaining Agreement could help the players then.

    "crit PRO" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "The letter said current practices undermined the right to privacy of
    > athletes and their defense."
    >
    > -quote from the velonews link......incredible!
    >
    > Next thing you'll tell me is driving a car in the US is a right, not a
    > privilege.
    >
    > Get the lawyers involved. My Pro Team and NGB has no right to test me
    > for drugs. Right.
    >
    > clean PRO
    >
     
  4. Gooserider

    Gooserider Guest

    I watched some of that debacle. It was funny when the senator attacked
    McGwire for using androstenedione, which was a totally legal product
    available at any GNC at the time. Meanwhile, Barry Bonds is juiced to the
    gills and he doesn't get called. WTF?
     
  5. Tom

    Tom Guest

    Bonds didn't get called because he's currently wrapped up in the BALCO
    stuff. Same thing for Giambi and others.

    Congress concerned about baseball... Don't they have more important
    things to take care of? Like a war, medicare, social security, the
    budget, and a few other more pressing issues?? Next thing you know,
    they'll open an investigation into the Discovery Cycling team.

    Tom
     
  6. Lots of people forget that MLB exists as we knw it because of antitrust
    exemptions. Congress can revoke them by a simple majority vote.



    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Bonds didn't get called because he's currently wrapped up in the BALCO
    > stuff. Same thing for Giambi and others.
    >
    > Congress concerned about baseball... Don't they have more important
    > things to take care of? Like a war, medicare, social security, the
    > budget, and a few other more pressing issues?? Next thing you know,
    > they'll open an investigation into the Discovery Cycling team.
    >
    > Tom
    >
     
  7. Bill C

    Bill C Guest

    Philip W. Moore, Jr. wrote:
    > McGuire did not come off looking very well.
    >
    > Bud Selig looked bad too.
    >
    > If MLB doesn't do something it could lose its Clayton/Sherman Act

    exemption.
    >
    > No Union or Collective Bargaining Agreement could help the players

    then.
    >
    > "crit PRO" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > "The letter said current practices undermined the right to privacy

    of
    > > athletes and their defense."
    > >
    > > -quote from the velonews link......incredible!
    > >
    > > Next thing you'll tell me is driving a car in the US is a right,

    not a
    > > privilege.
    > >
    > > Get the lawyers involved. My Pro Team and NGB has no right to test

    me
    > > for drugs. Right.
    > >
    > > clean PRO
    > >


    Schilling came off looking good, but he wasn't under any pressure
    either. Of the others Palmero didn't come out too bad IMO. Management
    and the Union were exposed again as the complete buffons they are. I
    think this get's messier before it's over and I hope the lose their
    protection. Baseball does not deserve to be treated any differently
    than other sports.
    Bill C
     
  8. On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 04:25:38 GMT, "Philip W. Moore, Jr."
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >McGuire did not come off looking very well.
    >
    >Bud Selig looked bad too.
    >
    >If MLB doesn't do something it could lose its Clayton/Sherman Act exemption.
    >
    >No Union or Collective Bargaining Agreement could help the players then.


    Not sure how that impacts things. Weaken the exemption and the
    industry that already caves to the players would somehow come up with
    something stronger?

    Bud Selig as a defender would get innocent men hung and here he isn't
    defending the innocent. It will take a year or more, but this is
    headed toward a minimum standard for all U.S. sports that will have
    teeth.

    And I'm waiting to see if they add some provision that the NLRB
    decertifies unions that encourage illegal behavior. OTOH, the NLRB has
    managed to ignore actual workplace violence...

    As for Canseco, he's a money-grubbing ass that has more muddied the
    water than cleared up anything. All he seems to have proved is what it
    takes to get people to pay attention. IOW, major league baseball
    deserves Canseco.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
  9. What ?!!?!? Schilling kept say their was no problem, so he was against
    more stringent testing. That doesn't make any sense! If it was truely
    clean the players and schiling would be anxious to enact a stringent
    testing proceedure to prove their innocents.

    He also came off like a arrogant pompous ass he knows he full of shit
    but believes that he is to smart to get caught. "I can't speak to
    that, sir" <Ironic smile>.
     
  10. k.papai

    k.papai Guest

    Schilling backpedaled. He did not win anything except the "I'm an angel
    award and love Jesus and stuff."

    McGwire loses whether he admits or denies. He cannot win.

    Canseco lost years ago.

    And Lafferty loses sleep over Armstrong.

    -Ken
     
  11. CowPunk

    CowPunk Guest


    > Ask the dad of the Texan high school pitcher that killed himself.
    > High school, college, etc are all places where this shit IS going on
    > because the pros are doing it, and if you want to be pro, you have

    to.

    Obviously you're too young to remember when Plano was the teenage
    suicide capital of the US. Spoiled rich kids killing themselves is
    nothing new to north Dallas.
     
  12. On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:57:31 GMT, Gooserider wrote:
    > Yep. Sure looks like David Wells is taking juice.


    What?! How disappointing for the author of my favourite book "The
    Penguin Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers".


    --
    Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
    Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/
     
  13. gwhite

    gwhite Guest

    Tom wrote:
    >
    > Bonds didn't get called because he's currently wrapped up in the BALCO
    > stuff. Same thing for Giambi and others.
    >
    > Congress concerned about baseball... Don't they have more important
    > things to take care of? Like a war, medicare, social security, the
    > budget, and...


    Dumbass,

    Like getting elected the next go-round? There's "big talk" on baseball --
    that's important to a politician.


    Thanks,
    g-spot
    RBR cynic
     
  14. gwhite

    gwhite Guest

  15. Gooserider wrote:

    >
    > I saw a visit to that Texas kid's household. It was a SHRINE to his baseball
    > playing. The family even had a pro athlete-style poster made up of the kid.
    > Perhaps if the father wasn't so obsessed with his kid's athletics the kid
    > wouldn't have felt the need to take 'roids.


    Excellent point, of course it is difficult to suggest that the parents
    may have had some responsibility here, since our society seems to
    replace responsibily with law suits.

    --
    Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
    remove "mydebt" to reply
     
  16. On 21 Mar 2005 12:13:12 -0800, "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I truly
    >believe that the Congress of the US has a lot more important business
    >at hand (wars, budgets of the country, and other more meaningful
    >things) than to take this on for political grandstanding.


    There are a lot of hearings for things both more and less important
    than drug use in baseball. So what? The flip side of grandstanding for
    votes is that there are voters that have an interest and a concern.
    And that's part of what congress is supposed to do.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
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