dt revolutions?



BikingBrian

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Sep 25, 2003
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I'm now considering building up a set of wheels for some training (probably not every-day wheels) and as a back-up set of race wheels. I'm thinking of dt Swiss 1.1 rims and record hubs, but I'm not sure about which spokes I should go with. Are there any benefits to going with DT revs as opposed to double butted 14/15 or 15/16 spokes? Does anyone have extensive experience with the DT Revs? BTW, the spoke count would be 32 front and rear.

Thanks.
 

531Aussie

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Apr 11, 2004
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Waste of money, in my opinion.

I had Revolutions in some CXP33s, and I thought they were too flexy, so I pulled the wheels apart after only 3 weeks and rebuilt them with non-butted DT Competitions (2mm) -- much better.

Champions weigh about 240g for 32 spokes (292mm), and the Revolutions are about 152g. So, while that's not a lot of weight coming off an 8 or 9kg bike, that's a fair chunk of mass coming off 32 spokes (~36%), and I reckon the big penality is a floppy wheel.

When the guy at the shop handed me the bundle of Revolutions, I couldn't believe how floppy they were. :)

If you want the shock absorption of butted spokes (I also don't think that's worth it), maybe go for a 'subtle' butt, like 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Such spokes are about 40g to 45g lighter for 32 spokes.

I also reckon the DT1.1s are flexy. I couldn't think of a more flexy combination. I had some 1.1s but traded them for some 1.2s. The 1.2s also look better :)
 

BikingBrian

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Sep 25, 2003
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531Aussie said:
Waste of money, in my opinion.

I had Revolutions in some CXP33s, and I thought they were too flexy, so I pulled the wheels apart after only 3 weeks and rebuilt them with non-butted DT Competitions (2mm) -- much better.

Champions weigh about 240g for 32 spokes (292mm), and the Revolutions are about 152g. So, while that's not a lot of weight coming off an 8 or 9kg bike, that's a fair chunk of mass coming off 32 spokes (~36%), and I reckon the big penality is a floppy wheel.

When the guy at the shop handed me the bundle of Revolutions, I couldn't believe how floppy they were. :)

If you want the shock absorption of butted spokes (I also don't think that's worth it), maybe go for a 'subtle' butt, like 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Such spokes are about 40g to 45g lighter for 32 spokes.

I also reckon the DT1.1s are flexy. I couldn't think of a more flexy combination. I had some 1.1s but traded them for some 1.2s. The 1.2s also look better :)

OK, I certainly don't want a floppy wheel, seeing as how I do a lot of crits and circuit races, so no Revolutions!
You have me thinking about the rims, too now. Other rims I can get locally are Open Pros and CXP 33s...any thoughts? I weigh 65 kilos and am a fairly competent sprinter.
 

531Aussie

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Apr 11, 2004
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BikingBrian said:
OK, I certainly don't want a floppy wheel, seeing as how I do a lot of crits and circuit races, so no Revolutions!
You have me thinking about the rims, too now. Other rims I can get locally are Open Pros and CXP 33s...any thoughts? I weigh 65 kilos and am a fairly competent sprinter.
well, I guess you're pretty light, so wheel flex won't be such an issue for you. I should've mentioned that I'm 85kg.

I haven't had much support before about the flex of 1.1s, so I might be wrong. Most people say they're virtually identical to Open Pros.

I have one Open Pro left, as a front wheel, and I can tell a slight difference in flex to my front CXP33s, but, as I suggested, at 65kg, the shallow rims shoudn't be a problem for you.
 

BikingBrian

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Sep 25, 2003
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531Aussie said:
well, I guess you're pretty light, so wheel flex won't be such an issue for you. I should've mentioned that I'm 85kg.

I haven't had much support before about the flex of 1.1s, so I might be wrong. Most people say they're virtually identical to Open Pros.

I have one Open Pro left, as a front wheel, and I can tell a slight difference in flex to my front CXP33s, but, as I suggested, at 65kg, the shallow rims shoudn't be a problem for you.

Makes sense. Thanks!
 

Phill P

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Jul 9, 2006
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531Aussie, I'm surprised at your concern over the flex of a 32 spoke wheel!

I ride Zondas which are 16 spokes, butted, and at 100kg I can't say I've been concerned about the wheel being flexy. Maybe I don't know any better!

My next set of wheels is likely to be hand builts, and I was planning on using aerolites or revos, deep V rims, and maybe a 24 spoke triplette on the rear (compared to the 21 spoke on the zondas).

I'm of the belief that thin butted spokes (with thick threads/ J bends) build more durable wheels. Never heard somebody complain of a "high" spoke count wheel being "floppy".
 

Retro Grouch

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Dec 29, 2005
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BikingBrian said:
I'm now considering building up a set of wheels for some training (probably not every-day wheels) and as a back-up set of race wheels. I'm thinking of dt Swiss 1.1 rims and record hubs, but I'm not sure about which spokes I should go with. Are there any benefits to going with DT revs as opposed to double butted 14/15 or 15/16 spokes? Does anyone have extensive experience with the DT Revs? BTW, the spoke count would be 32 front and rear.

Thanks.
How experienced are you at wheel building?

I wouldn't recommend Revolutions for one's first wheel build. They wind up a lot and, as a result, can be more frustrating to work with.
 
Dec 30, 2007
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BikingBrian said:
I'm now considering building up a set of wheels for some training (probably not every-day wheels) and as a back-up set of race wheels. I'm thinking of dt Swiss 1.1 rims and record hubs, but I'm not sure about which spokes I should go with. Are there any benefits to going with DT revs as opposed to double butted 14/15 or 15/16 spokes? Does anyone have extensive experience with the DT Revs? BTW, the spoke count would be 32 front and rear.

Thanks.

Rev spokes on the front will save you a wee bit of weight but the weight differences are minor. 14/15(or 15/16 if you a pretty light rider, both in terms of weight and technique) but 15/16 can be tough to find. 3 cross, brass nipps. I have build many wheels using Revs(only the front) and they are fine but do not deliver the stiffness of 14/15. PLUS more expensive. Use 14/15, 3 cross..GREAT rims BTW, the best I have ever built(have built a coupe of dozen)
 
Dec 30, 2007
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531Aussie said:
Waste of money, in my opinion.

I had Revolutions in some CXP33s, and I thought they were too flexy, so I pulled the wheels apart after only 3 weeks and rebuilt them with non-butted DT Competitions (2mm) -- much better.

Champions weigh about 240g for 32 spokes (292mm), and the Revolutions are about 152g. So, while that's not a lot of weight coming off an 8 or 9kg bike, that's a fair chunk of mass coming off 32 spokes (~36%), and I reckon the big penality is a floppy wheel.

When the guy at the shop handed me the bundle of Revolutions, I couldn't believe how floppy they were. :)

If you want the shock absorption of butted spokes (I also don't think that's worth it), maybe go for a 'subtle' butt, like 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Such spokes are about 40g to 45g lighter for 32 spokes.

I also reckon the DT1.1s are flexy. I couldn't think of a more flexy combination. I had some 1.1s but traded them for some 1.2s. The 1.2s also look better :)

Agree about Rev spokes but not the rim. The profile makes it not as stiff as a 'V' type rim, like CXP-33, but far superior to Mavic Open Pro with regards to quality when new, IMHO.
 

BikingBrian

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Sep 25, 2003
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Retro Grouch: No, I don't build my own wheels (yet!)...it's on my list of "one day learning how to do" things :eek: ...that would make things much easier if I didn't have to rely on someone else for wheels.

Peter: ok, that sounds good then, I think I will go with some butted spokes, but not the revs. oh...btw, I am the guy in Japan that you rebuilt a campy ergo lever for last year :)

thanks to everyone who responded.
 
Dec 30, 2007
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BikingBrian said:
Retro Grouch: No, I don't build my own wheels (yet!)...it's on my list of "one day learning how to do" things :eek: ...that would make things much easier if I didn't have to rely on someone else for wheels.

Peter: ok, that sounds good then, I think I will go with some butted spokes, but not the revs. oh...btw, I am the guy in Japan that you rebuilt a campy ergo lever for last year :)

thanks to everyone who responded.

Good to hear from you again..still in Japan?( I lived in Yokosuka while flying USN Fighters in the early 80s, probably already mentioned that).
 

BikingBrian

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Good to hear from you again..still in Japan?( I lived in Yokosuka while flying USN Fighters in the early 80s, probably already mentioned that).

Yep, still here! One of these days, I hopefully will get back to the US...
An interesting place with an active race scene, but I can't say I don't miss the US. Japan is probably a bit different now from when you were here...did you have any time to ride when you were in Yokosuka?
 
Dec 30, 2007
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BikingBrian said:
Yep, still here! One of these days, I hopefully will get back to the US...
An interesting place with an active race scene, but I can't say I don't miss the US. Japan is probably a bit different now from when you were here...did you have any time to ride when you were in Yokosuka?

Runner then and did run all around there, in Atsugi and Misawa..after coming back to US in 1983, 'saw the light' and started riding.
 

daveornee

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Sep 18, 2003
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BikingBrian said:
I'm now considering building up a set of wheels for some training (probably not every-day wheels) and as a back-up set of race wheels. I'm thinking of dt Swiss 1.1 rims and record hubs, but I'm not sure about which spokes I should go with. Are there any benefits to going with DT revs as opposed to double butted 14/15 or 15/16 spokes? Does anyone have extensive experience with the DT Revs? BTW, the spoke count would be 32 front and rear.

Thanks.
DT Revs in front and left rear is a workable solution with a bit more shock absorbtion front and a bit better wheel durability front and rear. I suggest 14/15 DB spokes for right rear.


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm


is a write-up regarding wheel stiffness. You will see that Rinard measures 11% difference between 14 g. and 14/17 g wheels built with same rims and same hub geometry.
DT Swiss R 1.1 are very nice rims
 
Dec 30, 2007
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daveornee said:
DT Revs in front and left rear is a workable solution with a bit more shock absorbtion front and a bit better wheel durability front and rear. I suggest 14/15 DB spokes for right rear.


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm


is a write-up regarding wheel stiffness. You will see that Rinard measures 11% difference between 14 g. and 14/17 g wheels built with same rims and same hub geometry.
DT Swiss R 1.1 are very nice rims

Here we go again..so Dave, after 1000+ wheels, ya still in it as a hobby or ya gonna go 'mainstream'?
 

Felt_Rider

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Oct 24, 2004
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I have DT Swiss wheels originally built by Joe Young with competition spokes, but after my crash I had them relaced with revolution spokes and it is true that I cannot percieve any improved weight difference. So I could have just stayed with the competition spokes.

Fortunately I have not experienced any problems with flex. Both have stayed true and continue to be good wheels for me. My bw is 75 kg and the wheel components are R1.1 rims, revolution spokes and 240 hubs. 32 count on the rear and 28 on the front with 3x lacing.
 

PeterF

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Sep 13, 2004
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Here we go again..so Dave, after 1000+ wheels, ya still in it as a hobby or ya gonna go 'mainstream'?
Make that 1001+. Just took my Aerohead-Record-Sapim wheelset that Dave built for me in November out for a club ride today (we had a very snowy Dec in Boston, so I've been riding the cross bike and saving the Aeroheads for dry roads). They ride like a dream. Thanks again Dave!
 

sideshow_bob

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Apr 26, 2005
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Felt_Rider said:
I have DT Swiss wheels originally built by Joe Young with competition spokes, but after my crash I had them relaced with revolution spokes and it is true that I cannot percieve any improved weight difference. So I could have just stayed with the competition spokes.

Fortunately I have not experienced any problems with flex. Both have stayed true and continue to be good wheels for me. My bw is 75 kg and the wheel components are R1.1 rims, revolution spokes and 240 hubs. 32 count on the rear and 28 on the front with 3x lacing.
Thats about my experience. I've got Crostini rims laced 2 cross front and back with DT Aerolites, which as far as I know are simply rolled Revolutions. I'm using 24 front and 28 back in my race wheels (~1400g). At 75kg and about 7,000 race kilometers in them last year over pretty **** roads they perfectly fine in terms of stiffness, and durability wise I've not had a single issue.

--brett