Duct Tape reduces vibration!

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Wayne Pein, Apr 27, 2004.

  1. Wayne Pein

    Wayne Pein Guest

    At a recent race I was oogling a friend's new Merckx Team
    SC. Gorgeous blue purple with full Record, including carbon
    cranks. I asked him about the carbon wrapped chainstays, an
    advertised feature, and he replied that they were for
    vibration damping, saying that having the tubes externally
    wrapped with something did this. He demonstrated the effect
    by knocking on the top tube to produce a sound, then wrapped
    his palm around the tube and knocked again, resulting in a
    muffled sound.

    I then asked if duct tape wrapped around the bike would have
    the same effect.

    Silence.

    Wayne
     
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  2. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

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    Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that would explain the silence.
    I just couldn't resist.
    I see duct tape wrapped bicycles often, but I assumed it was to cover their identity and make them loook real ugly. Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about their vibration reduction solution.
     
  3. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, daveornee
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that
    > would explain the silence. I just couldn't resist. I see
    > duct tape wrapped bicycles often, but I assumed it was to
    > cover their identity and make them loook real ugly. Maybe
    > those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about their
    > vibration reduction solution.
    >

    Well I don't know about vibration reduction. But the
    rationale behind the wrapping of (main triangle) tubes by
    messengers is to provide protection for the bike. Hastily
    tossing and (free)locking your bike against a wall or post
    50+ times a day mutilates the frame in short order.

    Never used duct tape though. Cork tape was the preference.

    luke
     
  4. Luke wrote:
    > In article <aKAjc.73333[email protected]>,
    > daveornee <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that
    > > would explain the silence. I just couldn't resist. I see
    > > duct tape wrapped bicycles often, but I assumed it was
    > > to cover their identity and make them loook real ugly.
    > > Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about
    > > their vibration reduction solution.
    > >
    >
    > Well I don't know about vibration reduction. But the
    > rationale behind the wrapping of (main triangle) tubes by
    > messengers is to provide protection for the bike. Hastily
    > tossing and (free)locking your bike against a wall or post
    > 50+ times a day mutilates the frame in short order.
    >
    > Never used duct tape though. Cork tape was the preference.
    >
    > luke

    I've always wondered about messengers and locking bikes. Do
    they lock up the wheels, or just the frame? I can see that a
    lot of messenger bikes will have good strong wheels, and
    some of them will want QR skewers, but I can't see taking
    the time to pull off a wheel or use a separate cable lock at
    each stop, so what's the deal? I seem to remember you're in
    Toronto, so maybe you can give me the local persepctive?

    As for the OP I really don't think you can compare tubes
    wrapped in duct tape to tubes gripped by a fleshy hand. This
    seems a really foolish 'proof' that the tape works. Unless
    the amount of tape you use weighs as much as an arm..
     
  5. Zeeexsixare

    Zeeexsixare Guest

    > As for the OP I really don't think you can compare
    > tubes wrapped in duct tape to tubes gripped by a fleshy
    > hand. This seems a really foolish 'proof' that the tape
    > works. Unless the amount of tape you use weighs as much
    > as an arm..

    It was a joke.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  6. wpein-<< I asked him about the carbon wrapped
    chainstays, an advertised feature, and he replied that
    they were for vibration damping, >><BR><BR> << then
    wrapped his palm around the tube and knocked again,
    resulting in a muffled sound.

    I then asked if duct tape wrapped around the bike would have
    the same effect.

    Silence.

    Wayne

    Sky Yaeger, the brains behind Bianchi USA, did this on a
    frameset at Interbike as a JOKE...lots of interest and it's
    amazing how many frameset makers actually do this now and
    claim this or that about this or that...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    daveornee wrote:
    > I see duct tape wrapped bicycles often, but I assumed it
    > was to cover their identity and make them loook real ugly.
    > Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about
    > their vibration reduction solution.

    Speaking of bike messengers, I was wandering around San
    Francisco last Friday and noticed a strange trend. Lots of
    fixies without front brakes! First of all, the thought of
    riding a single speed up some of the San Francisco hills
    gives me pause. But relying on just your leg muscles to stop
    in city traffic? That's, um...somewhat interesting.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
     
  8. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <ptHjc.3945$x%[email protected]>,
    Jacobe Hazzard <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I've always wondered about messengers and locking bikes.
    > Do they lock up the wheels, or just the frame? I can see
    > that a lot of messenger bikes will have good strong
    > wheels, and some of them will want QR skewers, but I can't
    > see taking the time to pull off a wheel or use a separate
    > cable lock at each stop, so what's the deal? I seem to
    > remember you're in Toronto, so maybe you can give me the
    > local persepctive?

    It's important to note that the dynamics of bike use for
    messengers and
    - let's say for arguments sake - for commuters, are
    different. A messenger will leave his bike briefly
    unattended dozens of times daily in different locales
    while a commuter's bike will generally remain unattended
    for an extended period time, often at the same location.
    Furthermore, the environs of your working messenger are
    daytime city centers; crowded and active. They along with
    a hectic schedule usually conspire to limit the means to
    positively secure a messenger's bike against theft.

    Consequently, preventing a theft through impregnable
    security (if such a thing exists) is troublesome at best.
    Fortunately, IMHO, it isn't required. It's only necessary to
    complicate a theft in order to thwart it because the
    constraints of time and conspicuousness are major deterrents
    in of themselves.

    While working, I aimed at discouraging the impulsive and
    opportunistic thief - your typical crackhead or alcoholic
    looking for funds for the next high - not the patient,
    knowledgeable pro who knows that Phil is a hub - not a
    doctor with a TV show. If he wants your bike he'll get it.
    But, as it impacted me, the threat by the first category was
    by far the greater.

    I'm uncertain what you mean by a 'local perspective.' I
    assume my perspective to apply to other localities as well
    as Toronto, but I did add an URL that applies to the city
    specifically. Anyway, here are few observations from an ex-
    messenger.

    Firstly: Always lock your bike. "Duh!," you say. Well,
    surprisingly, through laziness, haste or perceived lack of
    threat, many couriers don't always follow that golden rule.
    I know of 3 messengers who had their bikes ripped off (at
    King and Bay) last summer. All the bikes were left
    unattended for less than 5 minutes in crowded areas in broad
    daylight. All the bikes were not locked.

    Incidentally, once the routine is refined, locking your bike
    requires minimal time and effort. Most couriers have the key
    to their bike lock fastened to a retractable cord (wrapped
    round the wrist) or an elastic bracelet. Once off the bike,
    the key is literally in your hands: No fumbling in pockets
    or bags. (I still employ this method when using my bike to
    tend to errands.) And the lock (in my case) was kept in a
    large pocket of my 'cargo' pants, located on the side of my
    thigh, or an external loop located on my messenger bag. I
    only mention this because the entire process of dismounting
    and locking the bike rarely took more than 10 or so seconds.
    It was not a significant cost in time. So there's no excuse
    for leaving a bike unlocked.

    How you lock your bicycle falls into two categories; "Free
    Locking" and locking your bike to an immovable object
    (utility pole, bike posts). The optimal situation is a
    passing a lock through the frame and perhaps a wheel to a
    bike post/pole. It's the method a typical cyclist employs.

    But, by far, the most common was "free locking" This
    involves passing the lock through the frame or chain/seat
    stays as well as one of the wheels - but NOT securing the
    bike to an immovable object (because none are conveniently
    available.) If a thief wants to make off with the bike he
    would literally have to carry it away. And those that tried
    would often find themselves surrounded by couriers who knew
    the bike was pilfered or accosted by the bike owner himself
    chasing him down on foot. This was most typically done at
    the First Can Place, TD Center etc... within the city core
    in business hours. Of course, there are bike racks available
    in the area but if your drop required the use of a service
    or remote entrance then free locking was generally
    preferred.

    I would generally leave the bike as far as practicable from
    Subway entrances or underground parking areas. If this was
    not possible I'd lock it to the actual Subway stair railing
    (I did this North east corner of Yonge and Carlton). Another
    example: North side of TD tower (55 King St. W) rather than
    Wellington St side: If free locked your bike could be taken
    down to the rear underground parking.

    The object was to A) avoid leaving the bike unattended in an
    area where one could be alone with it and B) limiting the
    escape options of a thief.

    The type of lock - chain or U - is a matter of personal
    taste. I've used both, but prefer U-Locks because they are
    stored and handled more easily. As far as the security
    provided by the two designs; both were adequate enough *for
    the purpose*. That is, it would require a thief tools, time
    and a *conspicuous* effort (bystanders would know he was
    stealing) to liberate the bicycle.

    As far as individually locking easily detachable components:
    Again, IMO this wasn't really an issue because of the
    duration of time that the bicycle was left unattended. Even
    so, those with QRs would often clamp them closed (using a
    hose clamp readily available at a hardware store for 50
    cents) This, at least required the thief to possess a
    screwdriver and a few minutes to make off with a QR wheel. I
    never resorted to this when working, but frequently did
    remove my front (QR) wheel when locking the bike off hours.
    My rear wheels employed fixed gear hubs; they were bolted
    on. Also, my wheels were not your boutique beauties: 3x 36
    spoke with single walled rims. Utilitarian, durable and
    unpretentious.

    On the topic: most of the messengers, including myself, did
    not ride exotic machinery. It has a tendency to attract
    unwanted attention. In fact some of the bikes were *looked
    like* - as opposed to were - beaters. No Trek OCLVs,
    Lightspeeds with Ksyrium wheelsets etc...

    Occasionally, a theft did occur. And the bike courier
    community is tight knit and nothing infuriates more than
    a theft; it's tantamount to stealing food from someone's
    plate. Word of a stolen bicycle spreads like wildfire
    and most messengers know their colleagues' bicycles by
    sight. There have been instances of thieves being
    apprehended by messengers (one was careless enough to
    ride right by epicenter of courier culture: Spreads @
    Yonge and Temperance) and suffering pummellings they'll
    not soon forget.

    Adhering to the preceding proved successfull for me (for the
    2+ years I rode). You'll note that none of the methods
    outlined are exceptional. It's important to reiterate that
    the circumstances of an impulsive, opportunistic theft are
    different from those involving a patient and determined
    thief. And because of the quality of messenger bicycle use,
    a casual or commuting cyclist is often more vulnerable to
    the latter.

    So, the working messenger's rationale in securing a bicycle
    obviously does NOT apply to the majority of cyclists. It is
    needlessly risky when it's applied to the security of casual
    and commuter bicycles.

    Not surprisingly, MOST OF THE THEFTS I KNOW OF INVOLVING THE
    BIKES OF COURIERS OCCURRED *AFTER* WORKING HOURS. And the
    dynamics of those thefts mirror exactly the circumstances of
    bike thefts that occur in the greater cycling community. ie.
    Leaving a bike unlocked on a friend's veranda (Riverdale),
    locking of a bike in the evening while attending a BBQ (with
    a cheap U-lock that was jimmied with a 2x4 @
    Bathurst/Bloor)...

    Here the general precautions for the city apply.
    - Always lock the bike using a GOOD lock in well lighted,
    well traversed areas.
    - Take the bike indoors whenever possible. Always
    overnight.
    - If you must leave the bike outside overnight then use a
    POS (Piece of Sh_t)
    - Better yet, use the beater in all high risk areas

    etc...

    For more of the same, a while back I (pseudonym=linguinee)
    posted at <http://tbn.on.ca/cgi-
    bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=10tbngeneral&Numb
    er=487&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5#Post487>

    Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :) luke
     
  9. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, terry
    morse <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Speaking of bike messengers, I was wandering around San
    > Francisco last Friday and noticed a strange trend. Lots of
    > fixies without front brakes! First of all, the thought of
    > riding a single speed up some of the San Francisco hills
    > gives me pause. But relying on just your leg muscles to
    > stop in city traffic? That's, um...somewhat interesting.
    > --
    > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

    Quite common. Misplaced machismo or a misguided sense of
    orthodoxy. Regardless of the rationale the law of averages
    eventually asserts itself: crash.

    luke
     
  10. Luke wrote:
    > Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :) luke

    Yeah, very informative. I'm thinking about doing a stint as
    a courier, as I've always been curious and I think I would
    be pretty good at it. Also it's an excuse to build up
    another bike.

    By local perspective I just meant that Toronto is
    notoriously bad for bike thefts. From what you said, it
    might be in my best interests to make my bike look as cheap
    as it is (boutique wheels, what're those?) but still
    identifiable.
     
  11. Luke wrote:
    > In article
    > <[email protected]>, terry
    > morse <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Speaking of bike messengers, I was wandering around San
    > > Francisco last Friday and noticed a strange trend. Lots
    > > of fixies without front brakes! First of all, the
    > > thought of riding a single speed up some of the San
    > > Francisco hills gives me pause. But relying on just your
    > > leg muscles to stop in city traffic? That's,
    > > um...somewhat interesting.
    > > --
    > > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
    >
    >
    > Quite common. Misplaced machismo or a misguided sense of
    > orthodoxy. Regardless of the rationale the law of averages
    > eventually asserts itself: crash.
    >
    > luke

    I know a guy who couriers on a fixed with no brakes. When I
    asked him why not add at least a front one he gave me a look
    like I'd asked him 'why not use a foghorn?'

    He's been involved in serious accidents three times.

    OTOH a close friend of mine rides a BMX with no brakes, so
    not only does he rely on his leg muscles but also his shoes
    to stop in traffic :) I recently built him a road bike to
    try to convince him of his folly and I think he likes it.
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Jacobe Hazzard <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Luke wrote:
    > > Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :) luke
    >
    > Yeah, very informative. I'm thinking about doing a stint
    > as a courier, as I've always been curious and I think I
    > would be pretty good at it. Also it's an excuse to build
    > up another bike.
    >
    > By local perspective I just meant that Toronto is
    > notoriously bad for bike thefts. From what you said, it
    > might be in my best interests to make my bike look as
    > cheap as it is (boutique wheels, what're those?) but still
    > identifiable.

    Here's an example of the sort of wheels that I'd consider
    ill suited for the job. Note: URL may wrap

    < http://www.performancebike.com/shop/cboProfile.cfm?S-
    KU=16579 >

    Luke
     
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