dumb training question-does anyone ever feel sick after training?

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W

Warren

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In article <[email protected]>, Dan <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030320030854408252%[email protected]>...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Dan <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > One of my weekday rides is dedicated to "fat buring". I'll ride for about 2.5hrs easy, in the
> > > morning, with nothing but coffee for breakfast.
> >
> > Are you concerned that your body will cannibalize muscle tissue in search of the fuel it needs?
> >
> > -WG
>
> No, not on an easy ride.

How much of your fuel needs are fat, carbs/glucose/glycogen, and protein? Even when you're not
riding some of your body's fuel needs come from protein, and (IIRC) if you don't supply adequate
carbs then protein is the source your body prefers.

> Why would my body cannibalize protein from my legs, which are working, rather than my pecs, lats
> or biceps? Is it the proximity to the furnace?

I doubt location matters, but I don't know.
>
> If my legs do get a little cannibalized, in the balance of things, they're going to be rebuilt too
> because they're doing the work, no?

Maybe the net result from cannibalization and rebuild is that you're back where you started.

-WG
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320030854408252%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Dan <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > One of my weekday rides is dedicated to "fat buring". I'll ride for about 2.5hrs easy, in the
> > > morning, with nothing but coffee for breakfast.
> >
> > Are you concerned that your body will cannibalize muscle tissue in search of the fuel it needs?
>
>
>
>
> Riding easy won't do that, especially if you're the typical Fattie Master with ample 25% bodyfat
> stores. That stuff is coating the walls of the arteries just begging to be metabolized.

I don't think the amount of fat on your body determines your body's fuel source. In fact, it's quite
possible that an individual with more than ample fat has a hard time metabolizing fat for fuel and
that is part of why they have more than ample bodyfat. A person with a high amount of ST fibers can
burn fat easier than a person with a lesser ratio (or efficiency) of ST fibers.

-WG
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
>
> I think she is the first person to skate STP.

donnelly miller did it before i did. that's not to be nitpicky, just want to give him credit. he did
it before me, and i had his mark to shoot for, so it was easier for me.

> To respond to her original question, the key thing is eating and drinking enough during and
> immediately following the Saturday workout. And the only advice I can give on that is the
> importance of having healthy food and drinks you like pre-prepared before setting out on Saturday.
> That way you can stumble in the door and eat and drink.

having food & drink all ready to consume when i get home is a good idea, thanks!

i'm not going to reply personally to every response, that would be overkill, but i've read them all,
and will read them again. most everyone's telling me to drink more, so that's number one on my list
of things to try. and i suppose i'll have to eat something else besides toast for dinner from now
on, dang it..

:)
heather
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
"S. Anderson" wrote:
>
> I did carefully preface my remarks by saying I did not know her specific fitness level or goals.
>

no, don't worry! i asked how i could avoid feeling icky, and you answered my question fine. i do
need to do long hours to meet my goals, but i left that info out of my original posts.

heather
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320031558171589%
>> >
> > Riding easy won't do that, especially if you're the typical Fattie
Master
> > with ample 25% bodyfat stores. That stuff is coating the walls of the arteries just begging to
> > be metabolized.
>
> I don't think the amount of fat on your body determines your body's fuel source. In fact, it's
> quite possible that an individual with more than ample fat has a hard time metabolizing fat for
> fuel and that is part of why they have more than ample bodyfat.

That's a good excuse.
 
T

The Pomeranian

Guest
heather halvorson wrote:
>
> i know that training questions are a nono, but there isn't anyone i know in rl that i can
> ask, sorry.
>
> i like to train 5-7 hours on saturday, and on sunday a lot of the time i feel kind of crappy- a
> cross between a hangover and a sore throat maybe, with occasional dizzy spells. i still go out on
> sunday for a few hours, but i don't know if that's a good idea.

The dizziness could simply be low blood pressure. Mine is quite low (95 over 60-ish when in bed) and
I get dizzy from time to time. The Doc's tell me not to worry about it and that I am "lucky." I
think you body is responding to the stress. Maybe some of the signs of stress will go away with
continued training, but what do I know.

> how can i not feel sick? i'm not the best at eating and drinking after i get home, if that has
> anything to do with it? usually i pass out on the couch while my boyfriend watches crappy old tv
> shows. i work during the week, so i'd like to be able to have two good days in a row on the
> weekend...does anyone know what i'm talking about?

Those are long training sessions, you should expect to be tired, imo. Rest is very important. I've
"heard tell" that pro's just ride and rest and not much else -- that's all.

I think a calorie recharge is essential after long sessions, especially if you want to go hard again
soon after. It is hard to eat enough solid food. You could try TwinLab UltraFuel for a carbo
recharge. You can easily pack in 1000 Cal with UltraFuel within an hour after quitting. It is hard
to eat that much and some of the sport dietary advice I've read recommends a big recharge after
exercise. The recovery drinks that include protein would work too, although I find plain carbs a bit
easier to down.

The main carb for recovery is maltodextrin (so it isn't too sweet). I suspect CarboPro is okay too,
although I have not tried it.

http://www.nvo.com/sportquestdir/products/skudetail.nhtml?uid=1000
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
heather halvorson wrote:
>
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think she is the first person to skate STP.
>
> donnelly miller did it before i did. that's not to be nitpicky, just want to give him credit. he
> did it before me, and i had his mark to shoot for, so it was easier for me.

hmm, i don't mean it was easier because i'm so damn good (not!). i knew it could be done, so
that was half the battle. d miller didn't know that it could be done, but he had the balls to do
it anyway.

h
 
J

John Forrest To

Guest
"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I did carefully preface my remarks by saying I did not know her
specific
> fitness level or goals. Her previous feats and current fitness
level are
> unknown to me.

I'm sorry, I read too quickly.

JT

--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320031558171589%
> >> >
> > > Riding easy won't do that, especially if you're the typical Fattie
> Master
> > > with ample 25% bodyfat stores. That stuff is coating the walls of the arteries just begging to
> > > be metabolized.
> >
> > I don't think the amount of fat on your body determines your body's fuel source. In fact, it's
> > quite possible that an individual with more than ample fat has a hard time metabolizing fat for
> > fuel and that is part of why they have more than ample bodyfat.
>
>
>
>
> That's a good excuse.

...expected response from Henry. 'Tis fact though. You can look it up.

-WG
 
B

Bikerecker

Guest
> like to train 5-7 hours on saturday,

Why? What is the longest duration race you intend to compete in this season? If you are riding these
7 hour epics for fun, that is one thing. if you are doing it for training, I believe you are over
cooking it. No wonder you feel sick, you are breaking your body down, and the immune system is one
of the first things to go. Greg
 
T

Tritonrider

Guest
>From: [email protected] (Bikerecker)

>If you are riding these 7 hour epics for fun, that is one thing. if you are doing it for training,
>I believe you are over cooking it.
Greg

Greg, Heather has an amazing gift for understating what she has done, and is still doing. I used to
live in Tacoma and have travelled the STP route a bunch of times, only I did it in a motor vehicle.
To skate it the way she did, only the second person to do it, and the first female, is incredible.
I'm not sure how endurance skating would transfer to cycling, but I'd guess really well. I'm not
sure how good she could be on a bike, but I'd be willing to bet pretty damn good. Bill C.
 
W

Wantagofast

Guest
you'll need to post nude pictures of yourself before and after for a better evaluation

"heather halvorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> i know that training questions are a nono, but there isn't anyone i know in rl that i can
> ask, sorry.
>
> i like to train 5-7 hours on saturday, and on sunday a lot of the time i feel kind of crappy- a
> cross between a hangover and a sore throat maybe, with occasional dizzy spells. i still go out on
> sunday for a few hours, but i don't know if that's a good idea.
>
> how can i not feel sick? i'm not the best at eating and drinking after i get home, if that has
> anything to do with it? usually i pass out on the couch while my boyfriend watches crappy old tv
> shows. i work during the week, so i'd like to be able to have two good days in a row on the
> weekend...does anyone know what i'm talking about?
>
> heather
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320031924259977%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320031558171589%
> > >> >
> > > > Riding easy won't do that, especially if you're the typical Fattie
> > Master
> > > > with ample 25% bodyfat stores. That stuff is coating the walls of
the
> > > > arteries just begging to be metabolized.
> > >
> > > I don't think the amount of fat on your body determines your body's fuel source. In fact, it's
> > > quite possible that an individual with more than ample fat has a hard time metabolizing fat
> > > for fuel and that is part of why they have more than ample bodyfat.
> >
> > That's a good excuse.
>
> ...expected response from Henry. 'Tis fact though. You can look it up.

It is an excuse.

Nearly all of us have a number of physical characteristics that are not optimal for cycling. How
many Frank Vandenbrouckes are there?

The most gratifying feature of the bike racing odyssey, IMO, is overcoming the obstacles that are in
front of you. All training does is prompt the human body to adapt to stress and given the correct
stress, the human body will do so. None of our ancestors passed on their genes because they were
unable to adapt.

How does this apply to the "fat" bike racer? Go on more fat metabolizing rides (stressing the body
into developing the fat burning engine) and eat less.

The defeatist will make the excuse that they are naturally fat. I laugh at that. Go to any
non-industrialized country where there is not an overabundance of food and you don't see fat people
although ones who have a "hard time metabolizing fat for fuel" certainly exist there.
 
B

Bikerecker

Guest
>I'm not sure how good she could be on a bike, but I'd be willing to bet pretty damn good. Bill C.

Skating the 200 miles STP route is absolutely hardcore. Agreed. I know some good female
mountaineers, and Heather sounds like she would fit right in. One of them, my inspirational friend
Julie, enjoys Suffering at levels unknown to bike racers. BUT:Julie, the best climber I know, who
summitted Denali, in a raging storm, solo, and then almost killed herself with her ice axe when she
fell on the way down; who turned back at 28,000 feet on the Northeast ridge of Everest because her
single, male, partner was wasted and could go no further because they carried all thei own loads up
from base camp; who has to tele off most mountains because her knees are blown to pieces from her
hundreds of injuries; ALWAYS brings up the rear on our MTB rides.

Speed and endurance separate at some point. Heather seems to me to be way past that point, where not
only is she hurting any power/speed development, but is also damaging her body. Rather than asking
us for advice, she should talk to someone like Allison Dunlap or Tina Mayolo. Most woman pros are
knowledgeable, extremely helpful to neophytes, and will give better advice than all of us guys put
together. I bet that their long rides are less than 7 hours... Toss all of this if Heather is into
Ultra stuff, which might be the case. Greg Miller
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Nearly all of us have a number of physical characteristics that are not optimal for cycling. How
> many Frank Vandenbrouckes are there?
>
> ...The most gratifying feature of the bike racing odyssey, IMO, is overcoming the obstacles that
> are in front of you.

Some obstacles can be overcome. Some can't, or can only be partially overcome and success is not
always measured in wins. There are some valid excuses but losers give up too easily when excuses are
available.
>
> How does this apply to the "fat" bike racer? Go on more fat metabolizing rides (stressing the body
> into developing the fat burning engine) and eat less.

I could provide examples where this method isn't enough but I don't see the value of that.

> The defeatist will make the excuse that they are naturally fat. I laugh at that.

So do I. Nobody is naturally fat if "fat" is defined as 20+% fat for a male. But having 10% to
somewhere around 15, 18% fat does not mean the person can't also be fit if "fit" is defined as being
able to go fast, or long, or be competitive in a 2,3 event.

You are obsessed with fatness. You should be obsessed with fitness. Are you letting obstacles get
in your way?

-WG
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"heather halvorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> heather halvorson wrote:
> >
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I think she is the first person to skate STP.
> >
> > donnelly miller did it before i did. that's not to be nitpicky, just want to give him credit. he
> > did it before me, and i had his mark to shoot for, so it was easier for me.
>
> hmm, i don't mean it was easier because i'm so damn good (not!). i knew it could be done, so
> that was half the battle. d miller didn't know that it could be done, but he had the balls to do
> it anyway.
>

Heather what the heck is STP skating?

--
Perre

Replace the DOTs to reply
 
R

Robert Chung

Guest
"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Heather what the heck is STP skating?

Seattle-to-Portland. It's an annual charity ride that's about 200 miles long. Some people do it in 1
day, others in 2, but almost all do it on bicycles.
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > Heather what the heck is STP skating?
>
> Seattle-to-Portland. It's an annual charity ride that's about 200 miles long. Some people do it in
> 1 day, others in 2, but almost all do it on bicycles.
>

Ok that explains some of it. Did Heather then skate down the highway or across a lake?

--
Perre

Replace the DOTs to reply
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
Bikerecker wrote:
>
>
> Speed and endurance separate at some point. Heather seems to me to be way past that point, where
> not only is she hurting any power/speed development, but is also damaging her body.

hi greg-

you always write such interesting posts, thanks!

i realize that doing ultra and regular racing don't always make a perfect fit. i turn your point
over in my head at least once a month. however, i don't think i'd have any huge top speed or great
power no matter what. when people find out what i look like, they immediately say, "you're not a
sprinter." i don't even bother to compete in anything less than 20 miles long (1 hour) usually. my
favorite race is around 85 miles long (5 to 6 hours at race speed), but it's far away on the east
coast, so i can't afford to do it every year.

i don't get paid to do any of this, and never will- it's *all* for fun. i didn't even start this
stuff until i was 30 years old, and i'm in a sport that makes bike racing look as popular as monday
nite football. it's my hobby. i rate around a slower cat 2 (but keep in mind, fewer competitors make
it easier to be good-ish) a few things i have noticed though-

1. the last race i did (25 miles), even though i was dropped early by one woman, i picked her up
again mid race, and then left her behind at around 5 miles to race. she was fast, but didn't have
enough gas to finish strong. that's just one example, but it's happened more than once. so doing
long miles has given me an advantage over some speedier types who never do distance.

2. training for an 18 hour event might not be perfect for race training, but at least i *am*
training. because i have a goal that requires me to train fairly seriously for 4-6 months, i end
up in pretty good shape. without a goal i would always be making excuses when training time comes
(i know my patterns). saturday, after being out there for 4 hours, i ran into a woman who races
with me. she hasn't been doing much, and has a race in florida at the end of the month. we worked
together for 10 miles, and she kept saying things like, "i'm going to feel this tomorrow" and
"i'm so glad we ran into each other. i really needed to push myself." it was embarrassing,
because i was just cruising at my normal speed, and honestly, we weren't going very fast. that's
not to put her down, she just hasn't been training, while i have.

3. only a few of my training days every year are over 6 hours long. maybe 10 at the most.

i have another reason for training long hours that i don't want to post about because it's one of
those "maybe" things that hasn't come together yet.

i think i'm one of the few people on this group that enjoys going to spectate at crits now and then.
part of that is i'm fascinated by something that's beyond my ability to do.

bye, heather
 
D

Dan

Guest
warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030320031551407758%[email protected]>...

> >
> > If my legs do get a little cannibalized, in the balance of things, they're going to be rebuilt
> > too because they're doing the work, no?
>
> Maybe the net result from cannibalization and rebuild is that you're back where you started.
>
> -WG

Maybe, if I didn't push aside the desert tray. It's all voodoo, but it makes me feel good.

Riding; better than crack!
 
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