dumb training question-does anyone ever feel sick after training?

  • Thread starter Heather Halvors
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E

Ewoud Dronkert

Guest
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:42:06 GMT, heather halvorson wrote:
>i have another reason for training long hours that i don't want to post about because it's one of
>those "maybe" things that hasn't come together=
yet.

You're going RAAM?
 
T

The Pomeranian

Guest
warren wrote:
>

> Nobody is naturally fat if "fat" is defined as 20+% fat for a male.

I can't agree with that, but don't really care enough to elaborate.

> You are obsessed with fatness.

Not as much as he is with masters. He tends to confuse fat and masters. As a matter of fact, he
tends to confuse everything he wraps his mouth around. Wieners anyone?
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
> On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:42:06 GMT, heather halvorson wrote:
> >i have another reason for training long hours that i don't want to post about because it's one of
> >those "maybe" things that hasn't come together yet.
>
> You're going RAAM?

oh my lord.. since you brought it up, i'm putting you in charge of making sure that never happens. h
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030320032221105350%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan
>
> > The defeatist will make the excuse that they are naturally fat. I laugh
at
> > that.
>
> So do I. Nobody is naturally fat if "fat" is defined as 20+% fat for a male. But having 10% to
> somewhere around 15, 18% fat does not mean the person can't also be fit if "fit" is defined as
> being able to go fast,

Unless a male racer is 7% or lower, there isn't a valid excuse for not getting lean except for not
having the desire (and that is the most valid rationalization of all).

A 15% bodyfat racer is so much faster at 7%. You don't know the difference until you've tried it.

Eating less takes less time and less money, but more discipline.

As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society. Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2 lb.
weight gain per year as an inevitability. Given the long-term health risks involved, it's a mistake.
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> A 15% bodyfat racer is so much faster at 7%. You don't know the difference until you've tried it.

This assumes they have maintained an appropriate amount of strength while losing the weight. How
much faster are they because of the weight loss? Or are they less fat as a byproduct of training
more? Or are the faster guys always 7%?

> As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society.

I am disgusted by the stomachs hanging out of short shirts. Don't these people have a mirror? All
these 20 year olds who already have 15 lbs of too much fat... What will happen when they turn 30?

> Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2 lb. weight gain per year as an inevitability.

Inevitable, or just much harder to avoid as a person ages?

> Given the long-term health risks involved, it's a mistake.

10 lbs in 10 years isn't too bad. 20 lbs in 10 years is. And then 30 lbs in 20 years... Most of the
decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain compared to when
they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.

-WG
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031606529937%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > A 15% bodyfat racer is so much faster at 7%. You don't know the
difference
> > until you've tried it.
>
> This assumes they have maintained an appropriate amount of strength while losing the weight. How
> much faster are they because of the weight loss? Or are they less fat as a byproduct of training
> more? Or are the faster guys always 7%?

I can't really answer that question authoritatively (from a scientific perspective), but I can
answer it empirically.

Generally, leaner is faster. I've only met one serious full-time rider who got lean beyond the point
of declining returns. The Ultimate Masters Racer, Vic Copeland, has told me that the leaner he gets,
the faster he gets, even in sprinting. That is what I noticed from my own experience also and some
other pro riders whom I've talked to about this concur. One of them won the climbers jersey at USPRO
championships a few years ago while in the middle of a severe personal crisis during which he
scarcely ate in the month ahead of that race (but he was still doing the racing). He went in at 128
lbs. and won something like 15 out of 20 of the KOMs.

Of course there is such a thing as the point of declining returns, but that is a very hard thing to
reach in our overeating society. Bad habits are hard to break, especially when they are so
pleasurable.

> > As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society.
>
> I am disgusted by the stomachs hanging out of short shirts. Don't these people have a mirror? All
> these 20 year olds who already have 15 lbs of too much fat... What will happen when they turn 30?
>
> > Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2 lb. weight gain per year as an inevitability.
>
> Inevitable, or just much harder to avoid as a person ages?
>
> > Given the long-term health risks involved, it's a mistake.
>
> 10 lbs in 10 years isn't too bad. 20 lbs in 10 years is. And then 30 lbs in 20 years... Most of
> the decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain compared to
> when they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.

What I am getting at is there isn't a reason (except for overindulging our appetities) to weigh more
at 50 than one does at 20.

It is completely accepted that it's OK to get bigger as one gets older. I used to have that
attitude. But now, after reading the health data, it doesn't seem to be right. We should stay lean
our entire lives if we wish to optimize health.

This is assuming that it is desirable to optimize heatlh. If someone isn't interested in making that
sacrifice, then by all means, eat up, couch it, drink it.

Since this is a bike racing newsgroup, I'm running on the assumption that 1) performance
optimization is desirable and 2) health optimization is desirable. Those 2 are directly opposed to
hedonistic optimization.
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031606529937%[email protected]...
>
> > Most of the decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain
> > compared to when they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.
>
> Damn! 10-15 lbs to gain, and only 6 years to do it...
>
> Andy Coggan

This from a guy who probably has no trouble loosing weight.

Don't you have any contributions to this thread?

-WG
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What I am getting at is there isn't a reason (except for overindulging our appetities) to weigh
> more at 50 than one does at 20.

That's what you're wrong about. There are hormonal changes that alone will affect weight gain, or at
the least, make it much more difficult to lose fat or keep from gaining fat, in small amounts.

> It is completely accepted that it's OK to get bigger as one gets older. I used to have that
> attitude. But now, after reading the health data, it doesn't seem to be right. We should stay lean
> our entire lives if we wish to optimize health.

Do you have the same desire and ability to stay as fit as you were at 20 years old? Just like
staying non-fat, you have to work alot harder to stay fit as you get older.

-WG
 
B

Bret Wade

Guest
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society. Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2 lb.
> weight gain per year as an inevitability. Given the long-term health risks involved, it's a
> mistake.

Where did you get this 1-2 lb figure WRT racing? I've seen a few guys let their weight spin out of
control and quit racing but the majority of competitive masters I race with aren't any heavier than
they were ten years ago. In my late 40's, I'm still able to get my weight down as low as I ever did
and I'm much lighter than I was in my teens. How's your weight since you stopped racing?

BTW, being fat is probably at an all time low in terms of acceptance. It used to be seen as a sign
of success, now it's just seen as a sign of over indulgence and lack of fitness. Obesity may be
rising, but acceptance of obesity is not.

Bret
 
B

Bret Wade

Guest
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> The Ultimate Masters Racer, Vic Copeland

My only experience riding with Vic was when I saw him attack into a 4-way stop in Del Mar in front
of traffic to get a head start up the finish climb by Torry Pines. That just makes him the ultimate
San Diego rider.

Bret
 
S

Suz

Guest
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > Heather what the heck is STP skating?
>
> Seattle-to-Portland. It's an annual charity ride that's about 200 miles long. Some people do it in
> 1 day, others in 2, but almost all do it on bicycles.
>
>
I saw one guy doing STP on a unicycle. I'm pretty sure he was a 2 day rider though.
 
S

Suz

Guest
"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BA881D14.2F4F4%[email protected]...
> On 3/2/03 7:21 PM, in article [email protected], "heather halvorson"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > i like to train 5-7 hours on saturday, and on sunday a lot of the time i feel kind of crappy- a
> > cross between a hangover and a sore throat maybe,
> >
Funny, I often have a scratchy throat in the evening after a long ride, always think Im coming down
w/ a cold, but then I'm fine in the morning. I think it's from being outside in the wind all day.
> > how can i not feel sick? i'm not the best at eating and drinking after i get home, if that has
> > anything to do with it?
>
> >
>

>
The first thing I do when I get home after a long ride is drink a
> 32 ounce bottle of diluted Gatorade. Whatever you choose rehydration is
very
> important! Your 'glycogen replenishment" window is supposed to be within 2 hours after you stop
> exercising. Most cyclists use that time to rehydrate and.............eat, eat, etc......
>
> Steve
>
Someone has probably said this already, but to get your maximal glycogen uptake, (glycogen window)
eat or drink a carb and protein snack within 30 minutes (recent research is saying 15 minutes) of
finishing your workout. I think around 200-400 calories is about right for you, after a hard
work-out. If you can't stomach recovery drinks like Endurox, Hershey's fat-free chocolate milk has
about the right balance (and it's really yummy). Then have try to have a meal within 2 hours of
this. And yes, drink plenty. Are you drinking a sport-drink of some sort during your work-out, and
eating? If not, this would definitely help too- you may not be so completely wasted when you get
home. My recovery is pretty good, and I think eating right is the main reason. Good luck, Suz
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <1ih[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Someone has probably said this already, but to get your maximal glycogen uptake, (glycogen window)
> eat or drink a carb and protein snack within 30 minutes (recent research is saying 15 minutes) of
> finishing your workout.

Where did you read this "recent research"? How does your body respond (digestion) to protein only 15
minutes after you finish your workout?

-WG
 
S

Suz

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:050320030905194314%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Someone has probably said this already, but to get your maximal glycogen uptake, (glycogen
> > window) eat or drink a carb and protein snack within
30
> > minutes (recent research is saying 15 minutes) of finishing your
workout.
>
> Where did you read this "recent research"? How does your body respond (digestion) to protein only
> 15 minutes after you finish your workout?
>
> -WG

The "recent research" was covered in a USAC coaching seminar my husband attended. The point is, it's
not like the window "slams shut" after 15 or 30 minutes, but it does start closing gradually. You
can read all about it in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I don't
have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge. The carb/ protein snack I was referring to,
I meant to say approximately 4:1 carb/ protein ratio is ideal, I just didn't want to make it all
complicated. Yes my body responds fine to this ratio, and I also drink a 4:1 carb protein mixture
when I train or race. (Accelerade or a home recipe involving whey protein and maltodextrin).

Truthfully, after a hard race, it does take a little while for my stomach to calm down (and I'm not
crazy about Endurox), so the hubby has to nag a bit to get me to drink it within my 30 minutes. But
we were talking about training, and I can eat regular food within minutes of walking in the door
after a training ride. You just have to train yourself to do it. suz
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:050320030905194314%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Someone has probably said this already, but to get your maximal glycogen uptake, (glycogen
> > > window) eat or drink a carb and protein snack within
> 30
> > > minutes (recent research is saying 15 minutes) of finishing your
> workout.
> >
> > Where did you read this "recent research"? How does your body respond (digestion) to protein
> > only 15 minutes after you finish your workout?
> >
> > -WG
>
> The "recent research" was covered in a USAC coaching seminar my husband attended. The point is,
> it's not like the window "slams shut" after 15 or 30 minutes, but it does start closing gradually.
> You can read all about it in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I
> don't have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge.

The part that is common knowledge is the 2 hour window-not the 15-30 minutes you mention.

> ...I can eat regular food within minutes of walking in the door after a training ride. You just
> have to train yourself to do it.

How do you train your blood to leave your legs immediately and get to your stomach and small
intestine so it can help with digestion?

-WG
 
M

Mike S.

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:060320030816404286%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:050320030905194314%[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Someone has probably said this already, but to get your maximal
glycogen
> > > > uptake, (glycogen window) eat or drink a carb and protein snack
within
> > 30
> > > > minutes (recent research is saying 15 minutes) of finishing your
> > workout.
> > >
> > > Where did you read this "recent research"? How does your body respond (digestion) to protein
> > > only 15 minutes
after
> > > you finish your workout?
> > >
> > > -WG
> >
> > The "recent research" was covered in a USAC coaching seminar my husband attended. The point is,
> > it's not like the window "slams shut" after 15
or
> > 30 minutes, but it does start closing gradually. You can read all about
it
> > in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I
don't
> > have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge.
>
> The part that is common knowledge is the 2 hour window-not the 15-30 minutes you mention.
>

I skip the whole "eat real food thing" by drinking a glass of Metabolol or similar product, drinking
a soda, and maybe eating a pop ****. It usually takes a little while before I'm hungry again, then I
eat the "real food." Seems to work for me...

Slim Fast seems to work just as well as Metabolol. If you go get the Costco version, it costs less
too. I think the key is liquid calories.

Mike

> > ...I can eat regular food within minutes of walking in the door after a training ride. You just
> > have to train yourself to do it.
>
> How do you train your blood to leave your legs immediately and get to your stomach and small
> intestine so it can help with digestion?
>
> -WG
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031757053921%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > What I am getting at is there isn't a reason (except for overindulging
our
> > appetities) to weigh more at 50 than one does at 20.
>
> That's what you're wrong about. There are hormonal changes that alone will affect weight gain, or
> at the least, make it much more difficult to lose fat or keep from gaining fat, in small amounts.
>
> > It is completely accepted that it's OK to get bigger as one gets older.
I
> > used to have that attitude. But now, after reading the health data, it doesn't seem to be right.
> > We should stay lean our entire lives if we
wish to
> > optimize health.
>
> Do you have the same desire and ability to stay as fit as you were at 20 years old? Just like
> staying non-fat, you have to work alot harder to stay fit as you get older.

No, I'm burned out on competitive athletics. Been doing it since I was 12 years old (not cycling the
entire time).

I *am* interested in keeping my weight down for long-term health.

K. Gringioni
 
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