dumb training question-does anyone ever feel sick after training?

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Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> > The Ultimate Masters Racer, Vic Copeland
>
> My only experience riding with Vic was when I saw him attack into a 4-way stop in Del Mar in front
> of traffic to get a head start up the finish climb by Torry Pines. That just makes him the
> ultimate San Diego rider.

His racing accomplishments aside, Vic Copeland is a really nice guy. He is a gracious competitor
whether winning or losing. If you knew him, you wouldn't be making disparaging comments about him in
a public forum.

BTW, where is there a 4 way stop before Torrey Pines? There is a downhill from Del Mar (with a light
where Carmel Valley Road t's into 101 that you can run), then it's clear from there.
 
M

Mike S.

Guest
"Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> > As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society. Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2
> > lb. weight gain per year as an inevitability.
Given
> > the long-term health risks involved, it's a mistake.
>
> Where did you get this 1-2 lb figure WRT racing? I've seen a few guys let their weight spin out of
> control and quit racing but the majority of competitive masters I race with aren't any heavier
> than they were ten years ago. In my late 40's, I'm still able to get my weight down as low as I
> ever did and I'm much lighter than I was in my teens. How's your weight since you stopped racing?
>
> BTW, being fat is probably at an all time low in terms of acceptance. It used to be seen as a sign
> of success, now it's just seen as a sign of over indulgence and lack of fitness. Obesity may be
> rising, but acceptance of obesity is not.
>
> Bret
>
That's confusing to us VA boys. How can obesity be on the rise, but acceptance not be??

Mike
 
M

Mike S.

Guest
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >
> > > The Ultimate Masters Racer, Vic Copeland
> >
> > My only experience riding with Vic was when I saw him attack into a 4-way stop in Del Mar in
> > front of traffic to get a head start up the finish climb by Torry Pines. That just makes him the
> > ultimate San Diego rider.
>
>
>
> His racing accomplishments aside, Vic Copeland is a really nice guy. He is
a
> gracious competitor whether winning or losing. If you knew him, you
wouldn't
> be making disparaging comments about him in a public forum.
>
>
> BTW, where is there a 4 way stop before Torrey Pines? There is a downhill from Del Mar (with a
> light where Carmel Valley Road t's into 101 that you can run), then it's clear from there.
>
Of all of the racers in SD, Vic has to be one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Since I spend a
lot of time with him at the track all summer, I can tell you that more often than not, he's smiling
and chatting away with about anyone that talks to him. Occasionally all of us suffer from a lack of
thinking...

I'm trying to figure out this 4-way thing too. Since I ride up and down the coast almost every day
(no hills for me thanks!) I can't think of any 4-ways except the light at DM Heights, and some stops
in DM itself. Is that where you're talking about?

Mike
 
G

Gerard Lanois

Guest
"Mike S." <[email protected]> writes:

> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Ultimate Masters Racer, Vic Copeland
> > >
> > > My only experience riding with Vic was when I saw him attack into a 4-way stop in Del Mar in
> > > front of traffic to get a head start up the finish climb by Torry Pines. That just makes him
> > > the ultimate San Diego rider.
> >
> >
> >
> > His racing accomplishments aside, Vic Copeland is a really nice guy. He is
> a
> > gracious competitor whether winning or losing. If you knew him, you
> wouldn't
> > be making disparaging comments about him in a public forum.
> >
> >
> > BTW, where is there a 4 way stop before Torrey Pines? There is a downhill from Del Mar (with a
> > light where Carmel Valley Road t's into 101 that you can run), then it's clear from there.
> >
> Of all of the racers in SD, Vic has to be one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Since I spend a
> lot of time with him at the track all summer, I can tell you that more often than not, he's
> smiling and chatting away with about anyone that talks to him. Occasionally all of us suffer from
> a lack of thinking...
>
> I'm trying to figure out this 4-way thing too. Since I ride up and down the coast almost every day
> (no hills for me thanks!) I can't think of any 4-ways except the light at DM Heights, and some
> stops in DM itself. Is that where you're talking about?
>
> Mike

When I read Bret's posting I figured it was the last stop sign on 101 as you are leaving Del Mar
going in the southbound direction. Most (Saturday) riders take a back street shortcut which avoids
the whole of downtown (if you'd call it that) Del Mar, including this stop sign.

I'll second what Mike and Henry say about Vic Copeland - he is a very outwardly friendly and
unassuming person.

-Gerard
 
G

Gerard Lanois

Guest
"Mike S." <[email protected]> writes:

> "Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >
> > > As an aside, being fat is accepted in our society. Even "athletic" bike racers accept the 1-2
> > > lb. weight gain per year as an inevitability.
> Given
> > > the long-term health risks involved, it's a mistake.
> >
> > Where did you get this 1-2 lb figure WRT racing? I've seen a few guys let their weight spin out
> > of control and quit racing but the majority of competitive masters I race with aren't any
> > heavier than they were ten years ago. In my late 40's, I'm still able to get my weight down as
> > low as I ever did and I'm much lighter than I was in my teens. How's your weight since you
> > stopped racing?
> >
> > BTW, being fat is probably at an all time low in terms of acceptance. It used to be seen as a
> > sign of success, now it's just seen as a sign of over indulgence and lack of fitness. Obesity
> > may be rising, but acceptance of obesity is not.
> >
> > Bret
> >
> That's confusing to us VA boys. How can obesity be on the rise, but acceptance not be??
>
> Mike

It's a two-pronged assault by commercial interests.

1. They want you to buy lots of food (super size it!). More is better. Consume mass quantities!

2. Most anyone can be fat. Not everyone can be thin. So thinness is a scare commodity, especially
where there is lots of greasy sugary food available. They've taken the relative scarcity of
thinness and marketed it as a commodity. Sure, you can't buy thinness, but you can buy a magazine
with a picture of a thin woman on the front. You can watch TV shows with thin people. You can buy
a diet pills or a gym membership to try to join in on the thinness. Non-cyclists have been
programmed to appreciate and desire thinness. Cyclists have their own appreciation of thinness -
power-to-weight ratio.

#1 makes you fat, and tends to ensure the ongoing scarcity of thinnes.

#2 makes you dislike fatness.

-Gerard Distinguised Guest Lecturer, University of RBR's School Of Conspiracy Theory
 
L

Le Gopheur

Guest
> > > "Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > My only experience riding with Vic was when I saw him attack into a 4-way stop in Del Mar in
> > > front of traffic to get a head start up the finish climb by Torry Pines. That just makes him
> > > the ultimate San Diego rider.

>>"Mike S." <[email protected]> writes: Of all of the racers in SD, Vic has to be one of the
>>nicest guys you'll ever meet. Since I spend a lot of time with him at the track all summer, I can
>>tell you that more often than not, he's smiling and chatting away with about anyone that talks to
>>him. Occasionally all of us suffer from a lack of thinking...

agreed.
a. Vic's always a great & humble guy. (even more so off a bicycle)
b. *Most* of us have made a stupid move on at least one training ride in our lives. why hold Vic
to a higher standard?

>Gerard Lanois <[email protected]> wrote: When I read Bret's posting I figured it was the
>last stop sign on 101 as you are leaving Del Mar going in the southbound direction. Most (Saturday)
>riders take a back street shortcut which avoids the whole of downtown (if you'd call it that) Del
>Mar, including this stop sign.

Same place I assume he meant. FWIW, I have been singled out, and received the lone ticket, at this
very intersection by the Del Mar Police from a group of approximately 30 riders who all ran through
the stop sign together. I happened to be 1 bike length behind the pack at the time.

gopher - sux to be munching a PowerBar and drinking a coffee no handed at the back of a training
ride in Del Mar occasionally.....
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Ohioburg wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Heather what the heck is STP skating?
>
>>
>
> See this link for an "Up Close & Personal...."
> http://www.speedsk8in.com/articles/2001nov/2001nov-197miles.htm

I feel dumb now. I thought she was iceskating somewhere on a highway. Never occured to me that
inlines would be called skating ;)

Nice ride Heather and thanks for the URL Ohioburg.

--
Perre Who has never been in a pair of inlines, but skied and iceskated at the age of 1.

Remove the DOTs to reply
 
H

Heather Halvors

Guest
Carl Sundquist wrote:
>

> >
> > See this link for an "Up Close & Personal...."
> > http://www.speedsk8in.com/articles/2001nov/2001nov-197miles.htm
> >
> >
>
> 32 year old mother!?!?! From the faces of rbr page, I was guessing closer to 23!

nah, i'm just thin (or scrawny..), but i look my 34 years. too much time spent on summer snow
fields, soaking up uv radiation, i guess. (& stop being nice carl, that's not approved rbr
behavior : )

i have warned y'all before- http://groups.google.com/groups?q=heather+kid+%22old+lady%22+group:rec.-
bicycles.racing&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3D23763B.8F104E34%40attbi.com&rnum=1

running away, heather
 
S

Suz

Guest
> >
> > The "recent research" was covered in a USAC coaching seminar my husband attended. The point is,
> > it's not like the window "slams shut" after 15
or
> > 30 minutes, but it does start closing gradually. You can read all about
it
> > in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I
don't
> > have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge.
>
> The part that is common knowledge is the 2 hour window-not the 15-30 minutes you mention.
>
> > ...I can eat regular food within minutes of walking in the door after a training ride. You just
> > have to train yourself to do it.
>
> How do you train your blood to leave your legs immediately and get to your stomach and small
> intestine so it can help with digestion?
>
> -WG

Okay, let's try this again; You are supposed to spin down first, like everyone should after a race
or hard ride (to clear the lactic acid from your legs) and have a RECOVERY drink or snack, not just
hop off your bike after your sprint finish and down a Big-Mac or something. Sheesh! 2 hours is too
long to wait before having any calories, I bet you would have better recovery if you had carbs and
protein (again, 4:1) shortly after your race, as recovery cannot begin until you get fuel into you.
And you have wrong about the Glycogen window; 2 hours is when you are supposed to have a MEAL, not
your first calories. Got it?

-Suz
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Suz <[email protected]> wrote:

> > >
> > > The "recent research" was covered in a USAC coaching seminar my husband attended. The point
> > > is, it's not like the window "slams shut" after 15
> or
> > > 30 minutes, but it does start closing gradually. You can read all about
> it
> > > in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I
> don't
> > > have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge.
> >
> > The part that is common knowledge is the 2 hour window-not the 15-30 minutes you mention.
> >
> > > ...I can eat regular food within minutes of walking in the door after a training ride. You
> > > just have to train yourself to do it.
> >
> > How do you train your blood to leave your legs immediately and get to your stomach and small
> > intestine so it can help with digestion?
> >
> > -WG
>
> Okay, let's try this again; You are supposed to spin down first, like everyone should after a race
> or hard ride (to clear the lactic acid from your legs) and have a RECOVERY drink or snack, not
> just hop off your bike after your sprint finish and down a Big-Mac or something. Sheesh! 2 hours
> is too long to wait before having any calories, I bet you would have better recovery if you had
> carbs and protein (again, 4:1) shortly after your race, as recovery cannot begin until you get
> fuel into you. And you have wrong about the Glycogen window; 2 hours is when you are supposed to
> have a MEAL, not your first calories. Got it?
>
> -Suz

I've learned alot during 24 years of racing but I'm confused by your writing, and/or you are by
mine. I never said wait two hours.I questioned why you would start eating protein after only 15
minutes because the blood is still engorged in your legs and takes awhile to get to your digestive
system. Eating protein or alot of carbs after only 15 minutes may cause digestion problems. The cool
down and lactic acid that you mention are irrelevant for digestion.

I got the impression from your writing above that there is a window that begins closing after only
30 minutes. You provide no evidence for this. Common knowledge says that two hours, not 30 minutes
is when this window begins to close. Our esteemed Chief Science Officer Andy Coggan says the two
hour thing is no longer accurate and that the whole "window" concept is hardly relevant. He also
says the ratio should now be 5:1 to 4:1. He thinks yogurt is a good choice, as do I.

And just so we're clear, I finish all my rides or skis with 15 minutes easy effort, begin sipping
Gatorade about 15 minutes after the excercise ends, eat some protein with more complex carbs at
somewhere near 4:1 ratio about one hour after, and then eat the same ratio at about two hours after
unless it's after 6-7pm.

So how is it you train yourself so that the blood leaves your legs and goes to your stomach within
minutes? That is what you said isn't it?

-WG
 
O

One Of The Six

Guest
"Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031606529937%[email protected]...
>
> > Most of the decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain
> > compared to when they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.
>
> Damn! 10-15 lbs to gain, and only 6 years to do it...
>
> Andy Coggan
>
>

You never know what two years might do. I was an unwaivering 137 lbs my whole life (very skinny at
5'8"). I could eat anything (and did). Until 41 years old when I got married, fathered a son and now
at 43 I am 157 lbs.
 
S

Steve

Guest
On 3/6/03 8:51 PM, in article [email protected], "one of the six billion"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031606529937%[email protected]...
>>
>>> Most of the decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain
>>> compared to when they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.
>>
>> Damn! 10-15 lbs to gain, and only 6 years to do it...
>>
>> Andy Coggan
>>
>>
>
> You never know what two years might do. I was an unwaivering 137 lbs my whole life (very skinny at
> 5'8"). I could eat anything (and did). Until 41 years old when I got married, fathered a son and
> now at 43 I am 157 lbs.
>
>
>
>

That¹s what Henry aka "Parrot Boy" does not get...........

Because he has not done either one of those things.
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, one of the six billion
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040320031606529937%[email protected]...
> >
> > > Most of the decent 50 year-old racers I've seen seem to stabilize at about 10-15 lbs of gain
> > > compared to when they were 30 years old. Maybe the ones who get fatter stop racing.
> >
> > Damn! 10-15 lbs to gain, and only 6 years to do it...
> >
> > Andy Coggan
> >
> >
>
> You never know what two years might do. I was an unwaivering 137 lbs my whole life (very skinny at
> 5'8"). I could eat anything (and did). Until 41 years old when I got married, fathered a son and
> now at 43 I am 157 lbs.

Yes, I've heard that having a baby often leads to weight gain-for the mother! Perhaps you should
stop stealing his formula and go for the strained peas instead.

-WG
 
B

Br

Guest
"Suz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The point is, it's not like the window "slams shut" after 15 or 30 minutes, but it does start
> closing gradually. You can read all about
it
> in any number of cycling physiology books, like Ed Burke's. Sorry, I
don't
> have specifics right now, it's pretty common knowledge. The carb/ protein snack I was referring
> to, I meant to say approximately 4:1 carb/ protein ratio is ideal, I just didn't want to make it
> all complicated. Yes my
body
> responds fine to this ratio, and I also drink a 4:1 carb protein mixture when I train or race.
> (Accelerade or a home recipe involving whey protein and maltodextrin).

Do you alter your ratio or timing if you're trying to shave off some fat? I threw about 10 lbs of
real flabby fat on this winter and am trying to shed
it. So, after a training , I've been waiting about an hour to eat and then it's a high protein (47g
protein, 25g carb) shake
 
B

Bret Wade

Guest
Mike S. wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out this 4-way thing too. Since I ride up and down the coast almost every day
> (no hills for me thanks!) I can't think of any 4-ways except the light at DM Heights, and some
> stops in DM itself. Is that where you're talking about?
>
> Mike

It's been a few years and maybe I'm a little confused about exactly where DM is. I'm talking about a
section on 101? just north of Tory Pines where there's a series of 2-3 4-way stops just before you
start the long climb up to where the weekend rides start. Maybe they're not there any more. I think
the turn-off for the park road is in the same area. I stand by my comments. A car had to lock up
it's brakes so he could get his gap.

Bret
 
B

Bret Wade

Guest
le gopheur wrote:

> agreed.
> a. Vic's always a great & humble guy. (even more so off a bicycle)
> b. *Most* of us have made a stupid move on at least one training ride in our lives. why hold
> Vic to a higher standard?

Okay. Like I said, that was my only experience with him. I'm willing to change my opinion
considering the unanimous support here. Even Henry likes him!?

Bret
 
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