Dumbass rules

[Raptor]

I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass, hairy-leg, grizzled presence for the
first time in 15 years. Having waited an hour for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other freds
at the start line, only to be informed:

A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If we
want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?

Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like my
Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a slightly
higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate flipped on its
head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either spring for new racing
shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy. I won't dare raise my hands in
victory as I cross the line (first).

I avenged myself by doing 23-24 mph on the 15 mile ride home. Those lusers gained a reprieve, but I
will be back!

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Heather Halvors]

Raptor wrote:
>
> I avenged myself by doing 23-24 mph on the 15 mile ride home. Those lusers gained a reprieve, but
> I will be back!

no, for proper revenge you have to show up at the next race wearing something like converse high
tops. (jk!!)

anyway, here's something a friend of mine wrote to me once when i was complaining about stupid
rules. it always makes me feel better about my inability to cope with them-

"But I suspect you don't like bicycle racing so much also because its so structured/controlled. It's
like I laugh, silently, at some of the people who I ice skate with, these are long track Olympic and
near-Olympic types. They spend their lives trying to reach perfection in a very strict process
someone else defines for them. They want to be told how many minutes to do a certain exercise.
Perhaps its good for them. They aren't challenged to make decisions, which they could error on. They
have a very clear goal (Olympic gold) and some come close enough that they earn respect for life. I
guess they're lucky they can enjoy that."

heather

 

[Kyle Legate]

Raptor wrote:
>
> A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.
>
> Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If we
> want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?
>
When you crash and land on your shoulder, you'll be grateful for the extra covering.

> Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like
> my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a
> slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
> flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
> spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy.
>
You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair of cycling shoes.

 

[Bob Schwartz]

> A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

Take comfort in knowing that when you show up in your Masters World Championship jersey they'll let
it slide. Even if its several years old.

Seriously, is this a USCF race? If so, the rules are online:
http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/2003_uscf_rulebook.pdf

1K2 is where it says that jerseys shall cover the shoulders. It also says that shoe covers are OK.

There is nothing that says that sandals are not permitted. So another option is to print it out and
rub it in the official's face. Not that you can guarantee that will get you anywhere since there is
the human element and the possibility exists that the person in question will not take being shown
to be incorrect well.

On the other hand, if it isn't a USCF race then who knows what the rules are.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Ronald]

> There is nothing that says that sandals are not permitted.

Maybe a cool alternative for Pantani now that he doesn't stand out anymore with the new
helmet rules.

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> > B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.
>
> Take comfort in knowing that when you show up in your Masters World Championship jersey they'll
> let it slide. Even if its several years old.
>
> Seriously, is this a USCF race? If so, the rules are online:
> http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/2003_uscf_rulebook.pdf
>
> 1K2 is where it says that jerseys shall cover the shoulders. It also says that shoe covers are OK.
>
> There is nothing that says that sandals are not permitted. So another option is to print it out
> and rub it in the official's face. Not that you can guarantee that will get you anywhere since
> there is the human element and the possibility exists that the person in question will not take
> being shown to be incorrect well.
>
> On the other hand, if it isn't a USCF race then who knows what the rules are.
>
> Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Mike Murray]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote:

"On the other hand, if it isn't a USCF race then who knows what the rules are."

I might argue that it is easier to figure out rules at some non-USCF races, or at least the
interpretations of the rules are more consistent and fair.

If it is an OBRA race the rules are: http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2003rules.doc

Sleeveless jerseys are permitted ("cover the shoulders" is interpreted as allowing those), open
shoes are excluded only in mountain bike races.

Other organizations:

FIAC : http://home.pacbell.net/learnest/racing.htm

ABR: http://www.ambikerace.com/ftp/rulebook-2003.pdf

ACA: http://www.americancycling.org/info/documents/rulebook.pdf

UCI: http://nl-eds-01.adam.psi.com/english/about/rules.htm

I am sure there are more.

--
Mike Murray

 

[Bart]

"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair of cycling shoes.
>

My dad started to race in his father's wedding shoes.

 

[Robert Chung]

"Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair
of
> > cycling shoes.
> >
>
> My dad started to race in his father's wedding shoes.

Your grandfather got married in cycling gear?

 

[Somebody]

Well, there was a guy in the Masters 40+, 50+ who showed up at the start line with his 10-speed (w/
the dual-handle break levers and foam handlebar wrap) wearing cut off jeans, garndening gloves and
sandals (with black socks!), and they let him ride. I think the official was laughing too hard to
say no. He did have an awesome Specialized helmet though -- must have replaced his leather one.

It got even better when he rolled back into the wheel pit after two laps saying, "I just didn't have
enough time to warm up properly."

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass, hairy-leg, grizzled presence for the
> first time in 15 years. Having waited an hour for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other
> freds at the start line, only to be informed:
>
> A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.
>
> Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If we
> want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?
>
> Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like
> my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a
> slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
> flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
> spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy. I won't
> dare raise my hands in victory as I cross the line (first).
>
> I avenged myself by doing 23-24 mph on the 15 mile ride home. Those lusers gained a reprieve, but
> I will be back!
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Bret Wade]

Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.

It used to be worse. Back in the 80's only white socks were permitted and no stripes or other
accents were allowed. Every now and then our district rep would try to crack down on our illegal
sock activity under orders from the USCF higher-ups. Another time, they had a crackdown on the
size of the advertizing lettering on our shorts and made us cover it with masking tape. I recall
warming up for a race with masking tape streaming in the wind behind me because it wouldn't stick
to the shorts.

BTW, sleeveless jerseys are specifically permitted under ACA rules, but footware shall be "fully
enclosed".

Bret

 

[Raptor]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
>>A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
>>B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.
>
>
> Take comfort in knowing that when you show up in your Masters World Championship jersey they'll
> let it slide. Even if its several years old.
>
> Seriously, is this a USCF race? If so, the rules are online:
> http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/2003_uscf_rulebook.pdf
>
> 1K2 is where it says that jerseys shall cover the shoulders. It also says that shoe covers are OK.
>
> There is nothing that says that sandals are not permitted. So another option is to print it out
> and rub it in the official's face. Not that you can guarantee that will get you anywhere since
> there is the human element and the possibility exists that the person in question will not take
> being shown to be incorrect well.
>
> On the other hand, if it isn't a USCF race then who knows what the rules are.
>
> Bob Schwartz [email protected]

The USCF guy is present and conducting the race. I'm not sure that means it's officially sanctioned.
It's a weekly series intended mainly for training, with new rider outreach a secondary goal.

The USCF rule about covering shoulders is stupid. But it's not the only stupid "uniform" rule I've
encountered in athletics of all kinds. The alleged justification I was told was that a fall on the
hot asphalt could cause burns. The obligatory retort is why aren't we required to wear
full-coverage leathers?

I did talk to the dude in charge before the race, which is where he probably espied my hairy toes.
He mentioned that he pays out tons of money for liability insurance. I assume he either knows his
policy doesn't cover sandals, or he doesn't want to take the liability risk. Doesn't matter, he's
Gawd of the race.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Raptor]

Kyle Legate wrote:
> Raptor wrote:
>
>>Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like
>>my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a
>>slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
>>flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
>>spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy.
>>
>
> You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair of cycling shoes.

Well, you've sure got a point there. Since I'm not inclined to spring for racing shoes at this point
(money), it looks like a choice between two goofies, though the choice has really been made for me.

As long as I'm fast, no scratch that, as long as I have fun, I don't much care how I look. If I
could get Frog cleats on Converses, I'd try Heather's suggestion.

But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Steve McGinty]

On Wed, 28 May 2003 16:59:43 +0200, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair
>of
>> > cycling shoes.
>> >
>>
>> My dad started to race in his father's wedding shoes.
>
>Your grandfather got married in cycling gear?
>
My dad won a race the morning after his wedding

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephenmcginty/Wedding.jpg

and I was born nine months after...

Regards! Stephen

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Kyle Legate wrote:
> > Raptor wrote:
> >
> >>Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really
> >>like my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's
> >>a slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
> >>flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
> >>spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy.
> >>
> >
> > You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair
of
> > cycling shoes.
>
> Well, you've sure got a point there. Since I'm not inclined to spring for racing shoes at this
> point (money), it looks like a choice between two goofies, though the choice has really been
> made for me.
>
> As long as I'm fast, no scratch that, as long as I have fun, I don't much care how I look. If I
> could get Frog cleats on Converses, I'd try Heather's suggestion.
>
> But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.

Dude.

Just wear your goddam jersey that has sleeves. You can do it.

 

[Wade Summers]

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.
>

If I was officiating a race that had shoulder numbers, I'd make you pin it to your skin.

Sleeveless jerseys just look bad, there is no way around it. And you might not think that little bit
of lycra is worth anything, but it does offer protection from road rash, especially if you wear a
base layer under it...

Wade

 

[Ryan John Cousi]

"Wade Summers" <[email protected]> writes:

>"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>> But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.

>If I was officiating a race that had shoulder numbers, I'd make you pin it to your skin.

>Sleeveless jerseys just look bad, there is no way around it. And you might not think that little
>bit of lycra is worth anything, but it does offer protection from road rash, especially if you wear
>a base layer under it...

I actually think I've figured out the origin of this rule. At some point, someone sends home a rider
who wants to ride in, oh, I don't know, probably a triathlon bathing suit and no top. The marshall
sends them home, and now the sanctioning body realizes this is a problem and that they probably want
the racers to wear a shirt, if only for the nominal road-rash protection.

They figure out that if they just require a shirt, they're going to see riders showing up in
wife-beater undershirts. So they write the rule to require "covered shoulders," aka sleeves. I bet
it even predates the popularity of sleeveless mountain bike jerseys.

SPD sandals in a race just strikes me as a bad idea. The potential for road rash alone...you don't
want to mess up your feet. Even if there's no specific rule, I'll bet the race marshall has broad
discretion when it comes to safety and liability issues.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected], www.sfu.ca/~rcousine

 

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article <[email protected]>, Ryan John Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> SPD sandals in a race just strikes me as a bad idea. The potential for road rash alone...you don't
> want to mess up your feet. Even if there's no specific rule, I'll bet the race marshall has broad
> discretion when it comes to safety and liability issues.

I remember one time I put my foot into the front wheel of another rider at the track. I hate to
think what my foot would have looked like if I had been wearing sandals. Based on this experience as
a Chief Ref at a race I would probably require a rider to have regular cycling shoes ( or at least
somethig that covered the toes) as a safety issue.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Bart wrote:
> "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair of cycling shoes.
>>
>
> My dad started to race in his father's wedding shoes.

Were they open toe?

 

[Andrew Martin]

Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I was about to grace the bike racing world with my lard-ass, hairy-leg, grizzled presence for the
> first time in 15 years. Having waited an hour for the 1-4s to race, I collected with the other
> freds at the start line, only to be informed:
>
> A. Sleeveless jerseys are illegal, but we'll let it slide this time.
> B. Open-toed "shoes" are not permitted and we'll NOT let it slide this time.
>
> Rule A strikes me as the more stupid one. There's no sensible rationale that I can think of. If we
> want to bare our ripped deltoids and increase our skin cancer risk, who cares?
>
> Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really like
> my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's a
> slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
> flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
> spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy. I won't
> dare raise my hands in victory as I cross the line (first).
>
> I avenged myself by doing 23-24 mph on the 15 mile ride home. Those lusers gained a reprieve, but
> I will be back!
>
> --

If you think of both of those rules in the case where you are crashing and sliding on the ground, I
think they both make plenty of sense. ` I've seen shoes with toes exposed after a long slide. I've
seen jerseys slide nicely on pavement without seriously damaging the skin below. Reducing injury is
the name of the game.

The rules are not there for your comfort or because they want to restrict your liberties - they are
there for INSURANCE. Anything the USCF or any other sanctioned racing body does that doesn't
directly relate to race rules usually comes down to liability. Ask Mike Murray what his insurance
rates are - ask him if he'd make everybody in his races wear some sort of sunglasses if it meant his
premiums would drop. Some rules are foolish, but if they keep the sport happening, just go with it.

-a

 

[Us]

dude it's utah remember? everythings a little wierd.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Kyle Legate wrote:
>>
>>>Raptor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rule B is the more annoying one, though I can barely accept the presumed reasoning. I really
>>>>like my Shimano sandals and they're the envy of every recreational rider I meet. I guess there's
>>>>a slightly higher risk of severe foot injury should I crash, but... well, it's the helmet debate
>>>>flipped on its head, only I won't die if my tootsies get ripped up. But now I have to either
>>>>spring for new racing shoes, or wear my hiking boot style mtb shoes and REALLY look goofy.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You couldn't get any goofier looking than racing in sandals. Get a pair
>
> of
>
>>>cycling shoes.
>>
>>Well, you've sure got a point there. Since I'm not inclined to spring for racing shoes at this
>>point (money), it looks like a choice between two goofies, though the choice has really been
>>made for me.
>>
>>As long as I'm fast, no scratch that, as long as I have fun, I don't much care how I look. If I
>>could get Frog cleats on Converses, I'd try Heather's suggestion.
>>
>>But the cover-the-shoulder thing is still just silly, and I think you know it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dude.
>
>
> Just wear your goddam jersey that has sleeves. You can do it.