Durable road wheels?

[Art Harris]

Mike wrote:

> > > Usually I rebuild the wheel after the third spoke break because the last two usually occur pretty close together. That seems to happen around 18 months, with the first spoke break around 15 months.


> > Only a few possible reasons for multiple spoke breakage like that: Bad
> > batch of spokes, lack of proper stress relieving, or excess/uneven
> > spoke tension. You want the right side spokes to be just tight enough
> > so that the left side spokes don't go slack. One trick is to use
> > lighter gauge spokes on the left (e.g., 15-16-15) so that they will be
> > less likely to go slack for a given tension.

> I thought you wanted pretty high tension on the drive side. I really do
> need to read TBW. I've been greasing nipples and threads and getting
> things pretty tight. Not crazy tight, but certainly beyond what you
> describe.

They DO need to be "prety tight" to prevent the left side spokes from
going slack when riding over bumps and pot holes. But there's no
advantage to making them any tighter than that. With most 9/10 speed
wheels, the spoke tension on the right is about twice that on the left.
If you're pulling out eyelets, and breaking a lot of spokes, there's a
good chance the spokes are tighter than they need to be. Excess spoke
tension combined with residual stress in the elbow will increase
fatigue failure. A tensiometer is only way to determine actual
tension.

Art Harris

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > Invest in a tensionometer and make sure you stress relieve well. Also
> > do a 36h rear, build well with good components. Since you buiold your
> > own, ultegra hubs, 14/15 DT spokes, a Velocity Fusion rim...36/3 cross
> > rear
>
> Well, looking at the Fusions, there are no eyelets. Every rear rim I've
> had without eyelets has failed at the spoke hole. I'm sure I wasn't
> maintaining the wheel properly, but I'll happily take the added weight
> for peace of mind here.

No added weight for eyelets since they use a lighter, thinner walled
rim. I have built 'a lot' of Fusions and Aeroheads, hundreds and have
not had this problem of spokes pulling thru.

But as I mentioned, I think stress relieving, 36h, proper tension will
help with your issues.

 

[Yonatan Mazuz]

On 2005-12-17 20:21:53 -0500, "maxo" <[email protected]> said:
> Michael Press wrote:
>> "maxo" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Next time I build a set
>>> for bumping around town, it's going to be plain jane Sun silver CR-18s.
>>> Cheaper than dirt.
>>
>> And still available in 27 inch! (630)
>>
> And in 26x 1 3/8--I've thought about putting them on momma's old German
> single speed.

I thought about using these and turning my 3-speed with coaster brake
to a 7-speed with coaster, but it didn't seem worth it on the
ghastly-heavy frame.

Interesting to know that somebody else _thought about_ using 26 x 1 3/8
rims in aluminum. What's a real mystery is whether anyone else actually
goes through with it and buys the things.
--
-------
Yoni Mazuz
(there isn't actually **** in my e-mail address)

 

[Jim Weeks]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> Ladera Norte, 26%? Where does this figure come from, please? (I could
>> start feeling better about life here..)
>
> That's from measuring the distances and elevations using Google Earth.
> I have a spreadsheet that takes start and end elevation, and distance,
> converts to rise and run and gives a % grade.
>
> The two steep sections of LDN are 26% (the one at the bottom, before
> the Backtrail intersection, and the one at the top, approaching the
> stop sign). Crazy huh?
>
> You tried Smokey Valley near the bottom of LDN? I need to find out what
> that peaks out at with GEarth, but it's steeper than LDN at its top...
>

So how do Jester and the bottom section of BigView Dr in Riverplace compare?
those are a couple of beasts..

jpw

 

[[email protected]]

Jim Weeks wrote:

> So how do Jester and the bottom section of BigView Dr in Riverplace compare?
> those are a couple of beasts..

GEarth with my spreadsheet says that the steepest part of the bottom of
Big View is 21%. There might be a section in there that's 22% or maybe
23%, but only for a few yards.

Nasty.

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>What's my best solution for durable wheels at $300-400 for pair
>(shimano compatible)?

Custom built wheels using Dura-Ace hubs, Velocity aeroheads and DB spokes. I
would then pocket the extra cash.


>Would I be better off building my own 3-cross bent-spoke wheels, or
>buying some of the boutique wheels like entry-level mavic ksyriums or
>the like? Or can I find some straight-pull hubs and build up a set of
>those? (I can't locate any for sale online).

Custom built, assuming you can find a good wheel builder.

>In my 15-years and 120,000 miles on the bike, I have nearly always
>built my own wheels. I always start with an Ultegra or Dura-Ace hub,
>then pick the best-value Mavic hoops (Open 4-CD, or whatever was
>current at the time), and finish with some DT or Wheelsmith 14-15-14
>spokes and brass nipples.

I've done similar except I don't expect to find Mavic at reasonable prices.
I also use 15/16 on all of my wheels.

>The problem is that my rear wheels only last about 18 months. I weigh
>185 lbs. and do A LOT of hill repeats and sprint workouts in Austin.
>This means vigorously climbing hills that max out at 26% (the steep
>parts of Ladera Norte), and average between 10% and 14% for 300 feet of
>elevation. I'm not the most powerful or fastest rider around, but I am
>very tough on rear wheels.
>They always fail at a drive-side spoke bend, or if I don't have
>eyelets, maybe a drive-side spoke hole.

Sounds like you are not improving the spoke line and/or not stress relieving
the spokes.

>My front wheels last about 5 years before a spoke breaks at a bend, so
>I'm just worried about the rear.

Same thing.

>I'm proabably just a mediocre wheelbuilder.

It's easy to get better when you learn how to do it properly.

>I don't use a tensiometer,

Not really needed.

>but pluck and listen for consistent tone instead.

This works fine.

>I maintain them reasonably well, but only mess with them when I hear, see, or
>feel a problem -- I'm lazy in this respect.

Wheels should not requre any maintenance of this type unless you damage them.

>Nevertheless, the shop-built wheels I've ridden don't last any longer
>than my own, so I'm not a bad builder.

Just goes to show the shp builder could also use some more knowledge.

>So, I was thinking that straight-pull might be the way to go, but I
>understand that they often just fail at the spoke head.

Why?
--------------
Alex

 

[[email protected]]

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

Thanks for all the info...

> >So, I was thinking that straight-pull might be the way to go, but I
> >understand that they often just fail at the spoke head.
>
> Why?

Well, my thinking was that if spokes were breaking at the bend,
eliminating the bend may help. It looks like that actually just pushes
the problem to the head.

Anyway, I'm thinking I'll end up with Ultegra or Dura Ace, with
Velocity Fusions (32 front, 36 rear), 3x 14-15 DB spokes, and more care
when stress relieving.

-Mike

 

[[email protected]]

right: cr-18 with $35 hd touring tire aramid/kevlar carcass and belt
-14 straight or 14-15-14 DT 16mm nipples(file)
try mavic 35 touring A719? with 35 rear tire 32 front on cvr-18 or
whatever
lube the hub holes with teflon/wax drip in and dry with rim over dry
wall bucket-drip both sides, drip down used spoke
cover finished hub/spokes with another wax/teflon film
linseed threads
i use a deore lx rear and stock cones, rebuld and repack as needed.
wheels mfg solid axle
replace drive sides at 4-5000 miles-inspect for cracks when replacing.
i put in two slime liners at rear and cut tube liner in front here at
drunk city

 

[Ron Ruff]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking I'll end up with Ultegra or Dura Ace, with
> Velocity Fusions (32 front, 36 rear), 3x 14-15 DB spokes, and more care
> when stress relieving.

Sounds like a great choice... except I'd consider using WS AE15 oval
butted spokes on the front and the left rear. They are 15/16 guage and
are quite reasonably priced (79 cents at oddsandendos). They will give
you a small aero improvement... but that's not important if you don't
plan to race at all. According to Jobst, 15/16 gauge spokes are "strong
enough"... provided that you are careful not to over-tension on the
front... and they may last longer than heavier spokes because they are
more elastic (ie less likely to go slack).