Dutch Bikes - Gazelle Range - English info on deraileur equipped models?



Pyromancer wrote:

> Speaking of epicyclic gearboxen, does it do any harm if you forget to
> stop peddaling when you change, or does it just not change till you
> take the load off?


It varies with how much pressure you have on them. Lots of pressure,
nothing happens until it's released, a little pressure and it will often
change okay anyway, somewhere in between it will come out of the first
gear but not really get into the next and leave you flailing in neutral,
which is a bit of a pain at times but usually a brief back-pedal will
sort things. Generally I just ease off the pressure on the SRAM 3 on my
Brom and that's fine. Stopped at lights a little back pedal often
helps, and is usually necessary to switch more than 1 gear.

The Rohloff has a unique push-pull twin cable, I think partly to allow
more positive changes that don't suffer that "spinning in neutral"
effect. It's internally a 7 speed with a step down so all the gears can
be used twice and there can be a Gotcha changing from 7-8 under load,
where you come out of the step down as well as changing the main gear
back to the lowest so it's mechanically far more complex than the other
changes. To prevent you getting in a "neutral" with no resistance it's
been deliberately fettled to go from 7-14 if there's too much load to
get properly into 8 which can be disconcerting, but not as disconcerting
as going from 7 to [undefined] with no resistance!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> The long term plan is that if I replace my (very old!) StreetMachine


An original pre-GT with 700c rear?

> a Grasshopper[1] in March/April then I will eventually fit that with a
> Rohloff (and a SON!).


Have you ridden the Grasshopper yet? Roos and I both had a go while we
were looking for a 'bent for her and on paper it had everything right,
but just missed that Magic X Factor in the flesh for both of us.
Nothing /wrong/ with it, just didn't generate that "I am going to own
one of these!" feelings. Speaking to another of Darth Ben's
Streetmachine customers, he'd found the same (GH didn't exist in 2000
when I bought my SMGT).
Though Darth Stuart allegedly said that the Grasshopper was so good it
made the SM redundant... hyperbole, perhaps, but the GH definitely has
fans, just that I'm not really one of them.

Another option, assuming you want to stay with underseat bars, is the
Speedmachine now it has an underseat option. Doesn't look so cool but a
brief hack around the block last Saturday suggested it would be well up
there if I ever replace my Streetmachine (no plans to do so, though).

> [1] Haven't quite made up my mind on whether to get a Grasshopper or an
> '06 Trice-QNT yet. Trips to D.Tek and Kinetics coming up in March!


Ben's currently got an OSS GH and the USS SpM in stock. There will be a
demo StM just as soon as he's finished building it up, though there is
his single speed one with knobbly tyres in the shop at the mo...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch
([email protected]) wrote:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
>
> > The long term plan is that if I replace my (very old!) StreetMachine

>
> An original pre-GT with 700c rear?
>
> > a Grasshopper[1] in March/April then I will eventually fit that with a
> > Rohloff (and a SON!).

>
> Have you ridden the Grasshopper yet? Roos and I both had a go while we
> were looking for a 'bent for her and on paper it had everything right,
> but just missed that Magic X Factor in the flesh for both of us.
> Nothing /wrong/ with it, just didn't generate that "I am going to own
> one of these!" feelings. Speaking to another of Darth Ben's
> Streetmachine customers, he'd found the same (GH didn't exist in 2000
> when I bought my SMGT).
> Though Darth Stuart allegedly said that the Grasshopper was so good it
> made the SM redundant... hyperbole, perhaps, but the GH definitely has
> fans, just that I'm not really one of them.


My chum Dr. Cox replaced /his/ Street Machine with a Grasshopper and
seems well-pleased with the outcome. Although he has also acquired a
Velokraft VK2, with which he is terrorising innocent upright riders on
the lumpy bits of north Wales...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Official: Living in a wardrobe can be injurious to one's health
<URL:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1567961,00.html>
 
Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
> > The long term plan is that if I replace my (very old!) StreetMachine

> An original pre-GT with 700c rear?


<nods> Would you happen to know if the SMGT/SMGTe seat is any lower
given that it has a 26" and a bend in the frame? The seat on mine is
fractionally too high off the ground for me, which is one of the reasons
I'm considering a GH.

> > a Grasshopper[1] in March/April then I will eventually fit that with a
> > Rohloff (and a SON!).

> Have you ridden the Grasshopper yet?


I had a brief go on one at York cycle rally. It seemed kind of twitchy
(for lack of a better word), but whether that was due to the OSS or being
on a bumpy grass field I know not ...

> Though Darth Stuart allegedly said that the Grasshopper was so good it
> made the SM redundant... hyperbole, perhaps, but the GH definitely has
> fans, just that I'm not really one of them.


Well it was only a brief ride, but nothing screamed "wrongness" to me.
By of comparison I did also have a go on a (Rohloff & SON equipped!)
SMGTe at the same time over the same terrain and it didn't seem as good
as mine, so I think the performance of the bikes was being coloured by
not being in their element.

> Another option, assuming you want to stay with underseat bars, is the
> Speedmachine now it has an underseat option. Doesn't look so cool but a
> brief hack around the block last Saturday suggested it would be well up
> there if I ever replace my Streetmachine (no plans to do so, though).


I definitely plan to try the Speedmachine when I travel up to Kinetics in
a couple of weeks time. I also definitely plan *not* to try the Scorpion
in case it turns out to be far too tempting. (I can see this 2nd plan
not really working! <grins>)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> > Have you ridden the Grasshopper yet?

>
> I had a brief go on one at York cycle rally. It seemed kind of twitchy
> (for lack of a better word), but whether that was due to the OSS or being
> on a bumpy grass field I know not ...


I had a go on the same one. I fell off. Something to do with my legs
hitting the handlebars too much added to the general bumpiness of the
field and lack of laidback styleee practise.


...d
 
Pyromancer wrote:
> Those (and the similar one someone else posted) are seriously nice, but
> what I saw was more "enthusiast", with a small front wheel and the
> cranks way out at the front, but the rider seemed quite high up above
> the rear wheel, rather than down low between the wheels. I've always
> liked the recumbent idea, but until this thread I'd not seen anything
> like the Giants.


Someone (Possibly Sue Archer) on the Velovision ride at York 2 years
ago described the Giant "recumbent" as successfully capturing the worst
elements of both recumbent and upright bikes. The Spirit is a fairly
relaxed ride. Not my sort of bike, but I test-rode Darth Ben's to see
what the DualDrive system was like.

If you're more Southwards than Northwards, you could try D-Tek, nr Ely.
He doesn't really "stock" anything in particular (Other than the budget
Trices) and consequently has a wide range of vehicles to play with.
Lots in the BikeE line which is similar in position to the Spirit.

Jon
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> <nods> Would you happen to know if the SMGT/SMGTe seat is any lower
> given that it has a 26" and a bend in the frame?


I don't know, but Ben will as he used to run an original Streetmachine
IIRC. I guess HPVel can tell you too...

> I had a brief go on one at York cycle rally. It seemed kind of twitchy
> (for lack of a better word), but whether that was due to the OSS or being
> on a bumpy grass field I know not ...


I usually find that sort of OSS a bit twitchy as I've never used it long
enough to really dial in. Didn't find any such with the USS model.

> Well it was only a brief ride, but nothing screamed "wrongness" to me.


We found the same, but it didn't scream "yeah! yeah! yeah!" either. As
we've seen, mileage varies...

> I definitely plan to try the Speedmachine when I travel up to Kinetics in
> a couple of weeks time. I also definitely plan *not* to try the Scorpion
> in case it turns out to be far too tempting. (I can see this 2nd plan
> not really working! <grins>)


To try to put you off the Scorpion make sure you come down the hill that
links into Switchback Road just North of Kinetics at some speed on both
the Scorpion and any other HPVel bike. It's a rather dubious bit of
surfacing near the bottom on the left which the bikes take in their
stride thanks to full suspension and on which the Scorpion bounced me
around quite extensively as it's only suspended behind. I found the
Scorpion was fun but not anything like as much of a turn-on as the
Speedmachine: again the difference between "this is okay" and "I would
/really/ like one of these!". Once you have failed to resist trying it,
remember not to put your foot down as you come to rest: (a) it's not
necessary, and (b) you're in danger of running it over, or at least into
the back of your leg with the spar that runs out to the front wheels
(yes, that's the voice of experience...).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:
> > I had a brief go on one at York cycle rally. It seemed kind of twitchy
> > (for lack of a better word), but whether that was due to the OSS or
> > being on a bumpy grass field I know not ...

> I usually find that sort of OSS a bit twitchy as I've never used it long
> enough to really dial in. Didn't find any such with the USS model.


Having had a trip to Kinetics, and hence a go on both the (OSS) Grasshopper
and the (USS) Speedmachine, I'm reasonably sold on the Grasshopper ...

(I'm also convinced I need to find somewhere with some decent hills to
practice on, walking up Crarae Ave from Westerton Station was much harder
work than I think it should've been!)

I don't suppose there's anyone in the vicinity of York who has either a
Grasshopper with USS or a Speedmachine with tiller steering that they'd
be willing to let me have a go on is there?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> I don't suppose there's anyone in the vicinity of York who has either a
> Grasshopper with USS or a Speedmachine with tiller steering that they'd
> be willing to let me have a go on is there?


My experience with the GH and SpM underseats is that the steering
feels pretty similar on each (both are linkage controlled rather
than the direct steering on the Streetmachine. So while trying in
person is definitely the best way, if you liked the USS on the SpM
but just liked the GH otherwise it wouldn't be /too/ much of a leap
of a faith to order a GH with USS. One caveat is if you get the
Dualdrive then the twistgrips are at the "wrong" end of the bars on
USS (heel of your hand, rather than between thumb and forefinger),
which is a minor pain rather than a deal breaker, but if you're
paying that much you shouldn't really have minor pains! HP Vel
only seem to do the twistgrips with DualDrive, as do most others.
Nazca have hacked bar end shifters to work with DD and it works
very well, but you'll currently have to go to mainland Europe to
test ride one (or perhaps Dundee, if you ask Roos nicely, but
you'll not be able to compare OSS and USS here).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:
> So while trying in person is definitely the best way, if you liked
> the USS on the SpM but just liked the GH otherwise it wouldn't be
> /too/ much of a leap of a faith to order a GH with USS.


I think I'm going to go with an OSS GH, but I just wanted to try all the
possibilities before handing Ben my VISA card ... <grins>
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 

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