Dynamos vs. LEDs (Re: Cyclist Explodes! (NW Cambridge Plans))

[Anthony Jones]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
> Oh, I do. But they add effort,

A negligible amount.

> and have the problem that they don't
> work when stopped - and you are in more danger stopped at a junction
> than cycling along a road.

Evidence?

> Modern 'standlights' are improving, but
> are still fairly feeble - after all, even a 1 farad capacitor isn't
> going to drive a bright light for long.

It'll drive a flashing LED at ~20mA for several minutes. Plenty to be seen.

Anthony

 

[Anthony Jones]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
> You fanatics really are in denial, aren't you?

I think us 'fanatics' could say the same about you. I've yet to see you
present any evidence to support the majority of your claims.

> Each nuisance with a bicycle may, in itself, be minor - but the cumulative
> hassle is significant. It is not as large as the average motorist points
> out, but is considerably larger than you fanatics claim. And, as I said,
> the reluctant population points to such claims, and use them as evidence
> of how unreasonable the bicycle proponents are.

The reluctant population will always find excuses. That doesn't make them
valid. You're the only person I've ever heard using these particular
excuses though. Most people I know who refuse to cycle point towards it
being too 'dangerous'.

> With the sort you like, rechargeable or not, they (or, more likely, their
> batteries) are likely to be stolen the first time that their user is late
> for a meeting and forgets to remove them. And, when removing them, he
> has to add them to the other junk that he has to carry around and into
> the meeting.

Is it an intolerable burden to remember to lock your door when you leave
your house? And then to carry those keys around all day?

Anthony

 

[Peter Clinch]

Nick Maclaren wrote:

> Oh, I do. But they add effort

I've never actually managed to discern any extra rolling resistance with
the SON. Sure, there must /be/ some extra effort, but the same goes for
reducing weight by cleaning more often: it's just a non-issue with the SON.

> and have the problem that they don't
> work when stopped - and you are in more danger stopped at a junction
> than cycling along a road. Modern 'standlights' are improving, but
> are still fairly feeble - after all, even a 1 farad capacitor isn't
> going to drive a bright light for long.

The DToplight Plus runs at the same intensity stopped as when running,
and it keeps going for about 3 minutes because it's just a LED with
decent optics. I've never had it go out while waiting in the roadway.
The LED standlight in the [D]Lumtoec [Oval] Plus is just a "see me", but
that's enough when you're stopped and again it keeps going for several
minutes, which is quite enough.

You seem to be running considerably grottier dynamo kit than I am!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Roland Perry]

In message <[email protected]>, at
10:05:46 on Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Anthony Jones <[email protected]>
remarked:
>> With the sort you like, rechargeable or not, they (or, more likely, their
>> batteries) are likely to be stolen the first time that their user is late
>> for a meeting and forgets to remove them. And, when removing them, he
>> has to add them to the other junk that he has to carry around and into
>> the meeting.
>
>Is it an intolerable burden to remember to lock your door when you leave
>your house? And then to carry those keys around all day?

Removing cycle lights and carrying them with you whenever you park the
bike is in quite a different class to carrying car keys.
--
Roland Perry

 

[Peter Clinch]

Anthony Jones wrote:

> The reluctant population will always find excuses. That doesn't make them
> valid. You're the only person I've ever heard using these particular
> excuses though. Most people I know who refuse to cycle point towards it
> being too 'dangerous'.

Or they look out the window on days like yesterday (fog and heavy rain
all day here) and use it to blank out the more common reasonable weather
from their minds, and they're not familiar with the effectiveness of
decent waterproofs (or towels, you might sometimes think! ;-/).

While I've always found charging lights to be a pain, not more than a
lot of other day to day things like getting in food, and I've not heard
it as an excuse for not cycling either. Most people have found an
excuse /long/ before it gets to the lights.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Anthony Jones]

Roland Perry wrote:
> Removing cycle lights and carrying them with you whenever you park the
> bike is in quite a different class to carrying car keys.

Really? Why?

Anthony

 

[Roland Perry]

In message <[email protected]>, at
10:41:40 on Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Anthony Jones <[email protected]>
remarked:
>> Removing cycle lights and carrying them with you whenever you park the
>> bike is in quite a different class to carrying car keys.
>
>Really? Why?

It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket. They
may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.

Car keys are a single bunch, small and pocketable, and you already have
them in your hand as you get out of the car (because you've just used
them to turn off the ignition - if they didn't have that dual use then I
agree that they'd become much easier to forget).
--
Roland Perry

 

[Jonathan Amery]

In article <[email protected]>,
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>While I've always found charging lights to be a pain, not more than a
>lot of other day to day things like getting in food, and I've not heard
>it as an excuse for not cycling either. Most people have found an
>excuse /long/ before it gets to the lights.
>
Also, it's quite evident from observation that even on unlit roads
potential cyclists don't regard not having any lights as a disincentive.

--
Jonathan Amery. And by their tents, around their fires,
##### In story, song and law.
#######__o They praised, remembered, handed on
#######'/ A past that promised more. - Brian A. Wren

 

[Brian Morrison]

Anthony Jones wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:
>> Removing cycle lights and carrying them with you whenever you park the
>> bike is in quite a different class to carrying car keys.
>
> Really? Why?
>

Bulk and weight.

--

Brian Morrison

bdm at fenrir dot org dot uk

 

[Jonathan Amery]

In article <[email protected]>,
Roland Perry <[email protected]> wrote:
>It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
>take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket. They
>may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.

My rear light is firmly attached to the bicycle (and has a lifetime
that would make nmm1 cry out for joy), the front light is about the
same size and weight as a small bunch of keys, and the batteries
haven't run out since I bought it a couple of weeks ago.

--
Jonathan Amery. +---------+ ________________ _________________
##### |Cambridge| |# [] ## ## [] # | | # [] ## ## [] #|
#######__o +-+-----+-+ | [] [] | | [] [] |
#######'/ ----------+-----+--------- \-oo----------oo-/+\-oo----------oo-/

 

[Anthony Jones]

Roland Perry wrote:
> It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
> take them off;

You have to remember to lock your car or house when you leave it. People
still cope.

> they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.

Rubbish, some are no bigger than a key fob:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360025988

> They may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.

I've never found my lights to be muddy. If they are wet, I just shake the
excess water off before popping them in my pocket.

> Car keys are a single bunch, small and pocketable, and you already have
> them in your hand as you get out of the car (because you've just used
> them to turn off the ignition - if they didn't have that dual use then I
> agree that they'd become much easier to forget).

My previous post actually referred to house keys, in which case most of this
doesn't apply.

Anthony

 

[Anthony Jones]

Brian Morrison wrote:
> Bulk and weight.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360025988

Anthony

 

[Brendan Halpin]

Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:

> You seem to be running considerably grottier dynamo kit than I
> am!

Nearly all dynamo kit is grottier than what you are running!

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
mailto:[email protected] http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

 

[Dave Larrington]

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, at
> 10:41:40 on Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Anthony Jones
> <[email protected]> remarked:
>>> Removing cycle lights and carrying them with you whenever you park
>>> the bike is in quite a different class to carrying car keys.
>>
>> Really? Why?
>
> It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember
> to take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.
> They may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.

You could always try what I've done on the audax steed, viz. use lights
which are permanently attached to the machine. Admittedly members of the
Pikey tendency could still kick them to bits...

But it /is/ a PITA on the fixer; I have to remove five lights, the computer,
the pump and the water bottle at this time of year :-(

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Here, take these cheese-shaped stilts. You'll know when to use
them.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Anthony Jones wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:

>> they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.
>
> Rubbish, some are no bigger than a key fob:

FSVO "Rubbish". The really small ones, not entirely coincidentally,
aren't considered the really well illuminating ones

> My previous post actually referred to house keys, in which case most of this
> doesn't apply.

My house keys take up a lot less space than any bike lights I'd want to
ride regularly with.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Brendan Halpin wrote:

> Nearly all dynamo kit is grottier than what you are running!

That is true, of course, but the good kit /is/ there for people who want
it and are willing to pay. I think Nick may well fall into that category.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Roland Perry]

In message <Wjy*[email protected]>, at 11:05:56 on Thu,
12 Oct 2006, Jonathan Amery <[email protected]> remarked:
>>It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
>>take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket. They
>>may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.
>
> My rear light is firmly attached to the bicycle (and has a lifetime
>that would make nmm1 cry out for joy), the front light is about the
>same size and weight as a small bunch of keys, and the batteries
>haven't run out since I bought it a couple of weeks ago.

So why not attach the front light too, then we needn't have this tedious
debate about how many angels can dance on an AAA cell?
--
Roland Perry

 

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <[email protected]>,
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:
|> Brendan Halpin wrote:
|>
|> > Nearly all dynamo kit is grottier than what you are running!
|>
|> That is true, of course, but the good kit /is/ there for people who want
|> it and are willing to pay. I think Nick may well fall into that category.

Yup. i am interested in what you say about the SON, but it is quite
pricey, even for me!

What really annoys me is when there is a choice only between cheap and
nasty and expensive and gimmicky, or where to pay for an ordinary but
usable device I have to pay gimmicky prices.

However, not many people will pay SON prices for components.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Roland Perry <[email protected]> wrote:
> In message <Wjy*[email protected]>, at 11:05:56 on Thu,
> 12 Oct 2006, Jonathan Amery <[email protected]> remarked:
> >>It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
> >>take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket. They
> >>may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.
> >
> > My rear light is firmly attached to the bicycle (and has a lifetime
> >that would make nmm1 cry out for joy), the front light is about the
> >same size and weight as a small bunch of keys, and the batteries
> >haven't run out since I bought it a couple of weeks ago.
>
> So why not attach the front light too, then we needn't have this tedious
> debate about how many angels can dance on an AAA cell?
>
I did that with one of the SO's front lights, although it was because of
a tendency to jump off rather than a concern for security - a self-
tapper through the bottom of the lamp and into the bracket is all it
takes to stop them from parting company, and you can still remove the
top to change the batteries.

 

[Tim Hall]

On 12 Oct 2006 11:32:49 GMT, [email protected] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

>
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Peter Clinch <[email protected]> writes:
>|> Brendan Halpin wrote:
>|>
>|> > Nearly all dynamo kit is grottier than what you are running!
>|>
>|> That is true, of course, but the good kit /is/ there for people who want
>|> it and are willing to pay. I think Nick may well fall into that category.
>
>Yup. i am interested in what you say about the SON, but it is quite
>pricey, even for me!
>

Less expensive than the sON and almost as efficient is the Shimano
offering. Various models available (different spoke counts, different
(better?) bearings etc).


Tim