Dynamos vs. LEDs (Re: Cyclist Explodes! (NW Cambridge Plans))

[Douglas de Lacey]

Anthony Jones wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
>>take them off;
>
>
> You have to remember to lock your car or house when you leave it. People
> still cope.
>
>
>>they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.
>
>
> Rubbish, some are no bigger than a key fob:
>
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360025988

Chris' Bikes[1] is currently selling a pair of pound-coin size lights
with similar attachment -- front and rear for less than a tenner...

>>Car keys are a single bunch, small and pocketable, and you already have
>>them in your hand as you get out of the car (because you've just used
>>them to turn off the ignition - if they didn't have that dual use then I
>>agree that they'd become much easier to forget).
>
>
> My previous post actually referred to house keys, in which case most of this
> doesn't apply.

.... and the pair are together smaller than either my wife's car keys or
the bunch with my door keys on.

Douglas de Lacey
[1] ObDisclaimer: Chris is a personal friend of mine.

 

[Tony Raven]

Simon Brooke wrote on 12/10/2006 23:40 +0100:
>
> I don't think he's /strictly/ a troll, since I don't believe he's
> disputatious on purpose. He seems to be merely a monomaniac with poor
> reading comprehension and an inability to marshal arguments.
>

More than mono - Nick is disputatious on a number of subjects, although
they do all seem to come back to seeking to rationalise his decision to
drive instead of cycle - the roads are too dangerous; bike lights are no
good; cycling wastes a lot of time preparing for and ending the journey
etc etc

He also has a strong tendency to throw out wild claims and allegations,
that are easily disproved, while accusing others of doing the same.

If its not trolling it's pretty damn close. Perhaps classify him as a
pseudo-troll



> I'd ignore him if I were you.
>

I'm inclined to agree.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Dave Larrington]

Pyromancer wrote:
> Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Nick
> Maclaren <[email protected]> gently breathed:
>
>> Yup. i am interested in what you say about the SON, but it is quite
>> pricey, even for me!
>>
>> What really annoys me is when there is a choice only between cheap
>> and nasty and expensive and gimmicky, or where to pay for an
>> ordinary but usable device I have to pay gimmicky prices.
>>
>> However, not many people will pay SON prices for components.
>
> How about Shimano? I've never noticed any difference in effort with
> mine on or off - I suspect taking the heavy security chain out of the
> panniers would have more effect that turning off the generator.
>
> My experience of the old Halfords-style bottle dynamos was not
> particularly good, but then that may have been more to do with cheap
> kit than inherent problems with the type. But I far prefer the hub
> dynamo now I've used one.

Decent bottle dynamos require very little extra oomph these days too. The
trike has a brace of Lightspins and while one of them makes a most peculiar
howling noise[1], there's no noticeable increase in effort required when
it's on. Though this is usually when getting towards the end of a 200, when
I'm too knackered to care ;-)

1 - the more so since it is located but a few inches from my left ear

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Odd, is it not, how all roads lead inexorably to David Icke?

 

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Pyromancer" <[email protected]> writes:
|>
|> Why? I have a dynamo driven front light that's easily as bright as
|> some car headlights if I travel at anything resembling speed. I have
|> an LED rear light that's brighter than many car lights, and it's
|> mounted on the rear of the mudguard, clear of the paniers, and shows
|> reasonably bright to the side as well as very bright to the rear.

In case of failure or a court case! It isn't rare for insurers to
claim that the light was not showing, even when it is the accident
that caused it to fail.

However, don't confuse point brightness with visual brightness; yes,
many bicycle lights are equal to car ones in the former, but at any
distance, there is no substitute for power. That is why we are not
blinded when looking at the F0 stars in the sky!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Alan Braggins]

Simon Brooke wrote:
>in message <[email protected]>, Anthony
>Jones ('[email protected]') wrote:
>> Nick Maclaren wrote:
>>> You fanatics really are in denial, aren't you?
>>
>> I think us 'fanatics' could say the same about you. I've yet to see you
>> present any evidence to support the majority of your claims.
>
>I don't think he's /strictly/ a troll, since I don't believe he's
>disputatious on purpose. He seems to be merely a monomaniac with poor
>reading comprehension and an inability to marshal arguments.

Based merely on the content of a single thread, which was crossposted
part way through, or having reviewed his wider posting history elsewhere?

(The cross-posting (by me) may have been a mistake, but many urc posters
have well informed opinions about the relative value of different lighting
systems, and I was following up a urc regular.)

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Alistair Gunn wrote:
>In uk.rec.cycling Nick Maclaren twisted the electrons to say:
>
>> If such lights have a reasonable life between charges or batteries (say,
>> 30+ hours)
>
>The CatEye EL300 & EL530 front lights, and TL-AU100 & TL-LD1100 all meet
>or exceed your required runtime (according to the manufacturer[1]), and I
>note that none of them require D-cells in order to achieve it.

Up to a point - http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/327 says the
EL530 has up to 90 hours runtime, but if you look at the packaging one
comes in (as I just did in Drakes), it says up to 10 hours of use as
a headlight, the 90 hours figure is only for use as a "being seeing by"
light, not for seeing where you are going. (If that's all you need,
the smaller lighter EL135 offers 80 hours from 2xAA. But if you want
a bigger lit area, the 300 might be preferable).

An HL-270 (which takes two D cells) with its bulb replaced by an EverLED
(1W side emitter Luxeon with regulator - http://www.leddynamics.com/EverLED/)
would probably do it, and is just about pocketable for those who want (not
as buly as the head of an EL300), while giving the "wire it on for a whole
winter" life Nick wants (at least for modest commutes - anyone commuting,
say, 20 miles a day in darkness both ways has my sympathy and admiration,
but is going to need a dynamo or regular recharging).

 

[Tim B]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
> That is why we are not blinded when looking at the F0 stars in the sky!

Fibre optic stars? I had no idea.

 

[Anthony Jones]

Alan Braggins wrote:
> Up to a point - http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/327 says the
> EL530 has up to 90 hours runtime, but if you look at the packaging one
> comes in (as I just did in Drakes), it says up to 10 hours of use as
> a headlight, the 90 hours figure is only for use as a "being seeing by"
> light, not for seeing where you are going. (If that's all you need,
> the smaller lighter EL135 offers 80 hours from 2xAA. But if you want
> a bigger lit area, the 300 might be preferable).

Bear in mind that as none of the basic Cateye lights sold in this country
feature regulation, the runtime figures are of limited value. Since there
will be a gradual loss of light output, the 10h/90h figures will presumably
have been taken at arbitrary points (e.g. 50% and 10% of advertised
output), and I'm not aware of any standardisation of those points between
manufacturers. This is also another argument for using NiMH batteries,
since they don't drop in voltage as quickly as alkalines, especially under
heavy load.

> An HL-270 (which takes two D cells) with its bulb replaced by an EverLED
> (1W side emitter Luxeon with regulator -
> http://www.leddynamics.com/EverLED/) would probably do it

That's a good idea, although my concern with drop-in halogen -> LED bulb
replacements is that the light assembly won't have been designed with
heat-sinking in mind. This will mean that the LED is likely to run hot, and
hence its efficiency and lifetime will be reduced. I have no idea whether
this effect will be significant though.

Anthony

 

[Alistair Gunn]

In uk.rec.cycling Alan Braggins twisted the electrons to say:
> Up to a point - http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/327 says the
> EL530 has up to 90 hours runtime, but if you look at the packaging one
> comes in (as I just did in Drakes), it says up to 10 hours of use as
> a headlight, the 90 hours figure is only for use as a "being seeing by"
> light, not for seeing where you are going.

There was meant to be a footnote on my previous post, but I guess I was a
little too tired to remember to add it! It would basically have said,
I'd only got direct experience of the EL300[1] and I couldn't remember how
long between charges of the (NiMH) batteries I went. I think it may
have been about 3 weeks. (And at which point, it wasn't dead just no
longer bright enough for my taste!)

It occurs to me that something like a EL300/EL500/EL530, but with voltage
regulation and a charging station would probably suit a lot of people.
Every weekend, remember to put the lights on the charging station until
Monday when they will be nicely charged up for you ...

[1] ... and not recent experience at that, since I got a SON + DLumotec +
DToplight equipped bike in April!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Alistair Gunn wrote:
>It occurs to me that something like a EL300/EL500/EL530, but with voltage
>regulation and a charging station would probably suit a lot of people.
>Every weekend, remember to put the lights on the charging station until
>Monday when they will be nicely charged up for you ...

Apparently the German market version of the EL300 is regulated, but
inefficiently so. And there are lights with charging stations, and others
which you can plug in a charger while they are on the bike (assuming a
mains socket in your garage, for example).
Personally I also use rechargeable AAs for various other things and
just swap them in and out of a smart charger every now and again, so
just put some different already charged ones in the light occasionally.

 

[Anthony Jones]

Alistair Gunn wrote:
> It occurs to me that something like a EL300/EL500/EL530, but with voltage
> regulation and a charging station would probably suit a lot of people.
> Every weekend, remember to put the lights on the charging station until
> Monday when they will be nicely charged up for you ...

Sounds like the B&M Ixon. I suspect most people would baulk at the price
(£75 with charger from www.kinetics.org.uk) though...

Anthony

 

[Tony Raven]

Tim B wrote on 13/10/2006 14:11 +0100:
> Nick Maclaren wrote:
>> That is why we are not blinded when looking at the F0 stars in the sky!
>
> Fibre optic stars? I had no idea.
>

I thought he meant Foreign Office stars so understood immediately why I
would not be blinded by them ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Alex]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Pyromancer <[email protected]> writes:
> |>
> |> The question has been asked a few times now and not as far as I can see
> |> answered - if recharging lights (or using Duracells) is such a hassle,
> |> why not use a dynamo?
>
> Oh, I do. But they add effort,

The SON adds the equivalent to an extra 5 feet every mile. So over the
entire length of the 200km Audax I'm doing tomorrow I will have to
pedal any extra 189 meters.

-Alex

 

[Alistair Gunn]

In uk.rec.cycling Anthony Jones twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
> > It occurs to me that something like a EL300/EL500/EL530, but with voltage
> > regulation and a charging station would probably suit a lot of people.
> > Every weekend, remember to put the lights on the charging station until
> > Monday when they will be nicely charged up for you ...
> Sounds like the B&M Ixon.

Aye ... though I was imagining one where the charger would take both the
front and rear lights at the same time ...

> I suspect most people would baulk at the price
> (£75 with charger from www.kinetics.org.uk) though...

<nods> Some people wouldn't spend that much on a what they would,
somewhat laughably, describe as "a bicycle" ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

 

[Don Whybrow]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Don Whybrow <[email protected]> writes:
> |> > |>
> |> > |> Assuming:
> |> > |>
> |> > |> - A lifetime of 500 charge cycles for a NiMH cell.
> |>
> |> I would say that 500 is a bit low, I have seen figures of 1000 [1]
>
> Another battery company quotes 400, but that is not the point. Such
> figures are for optimal use, and it is common to get a hell of a lot
> less in practice. The actual life is also often limited by loss - e.g.
> their theft or failure due to a failure of the unit they are in or
> being charged by.

A few thought spring to mind:
1) Which company only claims 400?
2) How long ago was this?
3) Are you sure it was for NiMH & not NiCad?
4) Even if the figure I quoted is optimistic, one should expect at least
half that amount.

It would be nice to see some evidence for the first 3 at least, URL's,
that sort of thing to back up your assertions.


--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"I suppose they are vicious rascals, but it scarcely matters what they
are. I'm after what they know." (Gibson-Sterling, The Difference Engine)

 

[Bush]

Nick Maclaren wrote:
>
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> writes:
> |>
> |> > A minute or two is not long enough. It isn't rare to have to wait
> |> > several minutes at a junction or to turn right.
> |>
> |> Have you timed it? I have a crossing where I have to wait for hours for
> |> the light to change after I press the button. I timed it and it came to
> |> all of 20 seconds.
>
> I have timed some of the Cambridge ones at 1'30", but most of them
> have been changed. However, I was talking about traffic lights,
> especially when you have to wait for the other side to clear or
> in a queue.

Hang on, I thought one big advantage of cycling was "queue-busting" ?

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote on 12/10/2006 23:40 +0100:
>
>> I'd ignore him if I were you.
>
> I'm inclined to agree.

Damn! If you agree with me I'll have to change my mind!

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably
;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /.

 

[MJ Ray]

Roland Perry <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
> take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.
> They may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.
>
> Car keys are a single bunch, small and pocketable, and you already have
> them in your hand as you get out of the car [...]

Looking at recent sets of both that have been bought by family members,
it seems that car keys are getting larger and now sometimes have multiple
components (such as activator/immobiliser cards), while bike lights are
getting smaller (LED based). Are these trends general?

Wet maybe, but that's an easy dry with a glove or cloth. If your lights
get significantly muddy from on-road use, that's a hazard (reduces light
visibility) and may be a sign of incorrect fixing position.

--
MJR/slef

 

[Roland Perry]

In message <[email protected]>,
at 08:12:02 on Sat, 14 Oct 2006, MJ Ray <[email protected]> remarked:
>> It's obvious. There are two sets of lights, and you have to remember to
>> take them off; they are big and don't fit easily in a suit pocket.
>> They may also be wet/muddy if it's been raining.
>>
>> Car keys are a single bunch, small and pocketable, and you already have
>> them in your hand as you get out of the car [...]
>
>Looking at recent sets of both that have been bought by family members,
>it seems that car keys are getting larger and now sometimes have multiple
>components (such as activator/immobiliser cards),

My first car with an electronic "fob" as well as the key was perhaps 10
years ago, and since then they've not got any bigger. I think really up
to date "keys" can be just the fob now - no metal key at all.

> while bike lights are getting smaller (LED based). Are these trends
>general?

My bike lights are at least 15 years old, and aren't visibly getting
smaller. Perhaps if I bought some new ones they might be smaller.

>Wet maybe, but that's an easy dry with a glove or cloth.

So that's one more thing to have to carry around (the glove or cloth).
Although my gloves are sheepskin, and quite unsuited for drying things.

> If your lights get significantly muddy from on-road use, that's a
>hazard (reduces light visibility) and may be a sign of incorrect fixing
>position.

I was thinking mainly of the rear one, which I have mounted about
halfway between the hub and saddle.
--
Roland Perry

 

[[email protected]]

> brightness until the battery warning light comes on). My only gripe is that
> it takes 5 AA batteries which is an awkward number to recharge. You can get


I have a sigma ellipsoid which has a K~ mark so is legal ( I bet the
mounting system isn't though) but having to sort out 5 rechargeable
batteries is such a pain I recently bought a cateye to get away from
it.
Trying to meet the legal requirements is hopeless.The only front
battery lights which suit the law are obselete and a very poor
choice.The filament lights eat batteries.Even that BS cateye rear
,which is not a bad light, is supplied with a fitting that does not
meet BS ! Does anyone here ride a bike at night which is fully legal(
dynamos not allowed)? You have to have legal mountings too remember.No
hanging them on the bag.
Not one of the bikes on todays club run had pedal reflectors, for all
the usual reasons.
TerryJ