Eating Before Sleep

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by NYC XYZ, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. 00doc

    00doc Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Hi, All:
    >
    > I've heard different things about eating before bed...it
    > makes you
    > fat, food simply passes through without real benefit,
    > interferes with
    > a good night's sleep...does anyone know (and/or have
    > links/refs)
    > regarding this matter?
    >
    > I mean, is it a bad thing? (Unhealthy?) Why?


    There are two reasons why you should eat at least a high
    protein snack before bed.

    1) Not eating before bed means you go too long without food.
    To gain muscle most experts recommend eating a small meal or
    snack every 3-4 hours. It is bad enough that you will be
    going 8 hours or so overnight without eating while you sleep
    but if dinner is your last meal it will be more like 12
    hours. In that 12 hours you will end up in a catabolic
    state.

    2) Sleep is a metabolically active time. It is
    recouperative. You need fuel.

    I agree that the snack before bed should be considered when
    figuring out how much to eat in a day so the total calories
    meet your goals regarding gaining or losing weight.Unless
    you are looking to bulk up and need more calories you will
    need to cut back somewhere else.

    Also, if reflux is an issue keeping the meal small and low
    fat can help. Also raising yuor head when you sleep can
    help.

    The people that say you won't digest and use the food at
    night are morons. Don't ever listen to a thing they say ever
    again.

    --
    00doc
     


  2. Too many books I've read that say that. Last person who told me this, a
    couple of weeks ago, was my personal trainer: George Turner.
     
  3. > 1) Not eating before bed means you go too long without food. To gain
    > muscle most experts recommend eating a small meal or snack every 3-4
    > hours. It is bad enough that you will be going 8 hours or so overnight
    > without eating while you sleep


    If that were true then you are saying we need to get up in the middle of the
    night to eat. Breakfast is called breakfast because you "break your fast".

    > 2) Sleep is a metabolically active time. It is recouperative. You need
    > fuel.


    You don't eat so you can get through the night. You eat throughout the day
    and recuperate at night.

    > I agree that the snack before bed should be considered when figuring out
    > how much to eat in a day so the total calories meet your goals regarding
    > gaining or losing weight.Unless you are looking to bulk up and need more
    > calories you will need to cut back somewhere else.


    So if we snack at night we have to cut out some day time food? Then why
    snack at night at all?

    > Also, if reflux is an issue keeping the meal small and low fat can help.
    > Also raising yuor head when you sleep can help.

    Also not eating before you go to bed helps. Your body is not designed to
    digest food lying down.

    > The people that say you won't digest and use the food at night are morons.
    > Don't ever listen to a thing they say ever again.


    You contradict everything I've read.
     
  4. 00doc

    00doc Guest

    drhowarddrfinedrhoward wrote:
    >> 1) Not eating before bed means you go too long without
    >> food. To gain
    >> muscle most experts recommend eating a small meal or
    >> snack every 3-4
    >> hours. It is bad enough that you will be going 8 hours or
    >> so
    >> overnight without eating while you sleep

    >
    > If that were true then you are saying we need to get up in
    > the middle
    > of the night to eat. Breakfast is called breakfast
    > because you
    > "break your fast".


    Ummm...yeah? That's why it is called breakfast. What does
    that have to do with whether your should eat before bed?

    Nutritionally speaking I'm not sure we shouldn't get up at 3
    am to eat. it would make sense. Personally, I like my sleep
    too much to do that and I do have some doubts about whether
    the decrease in sleep would be worth it.

    The the point is that none of the the quoted text above
    gives any argument against what I am saying. It is just kind
    of random babbling.



    >> 2) Sleep is a metabolically active time. It is
    >> recouperative. You
    >> need fuel.

    >
    > You don't eat so you can get through the night. You eat
    > throughout
    > the day and recuperate at night.


    What is recouperation? If it involves muscle repair (or
    building) then it must require protein. Doesn't it make
    sense to put protein in the system at the time when you are
    using it?



    >> I agree that the snack before bed should be considered
    >> when figuring
    >> out how much to eat in a day so the total calories meet
    >> your goals
    >> regarding gaining or losing weight.Unless you are looking
    >> to bulk up
    >> and need more calories you will need to cut back
    >> somewhere else.

    >
    > So if we snack at night we have to cut out some day time
    > food? Then
    > why snack at night at all?


    Because small frequent meals are used more efficiently than
    large infrequent ones. Are there really people who doubt
    this? Why not just eat one big meal a day?


    >> Also, if reflux is an issue keeping the meal small and
    >> low fat can
    >> help. Also raising yuor head when you sleep can help.

    > Also not eating before you go to bed helps. Your body is
    > not
    > designed to digest food lying down.
    >
    >> The people that say you won't digest and use the food at
    >> night are
    >> morons. Don't ever listen to a thing they say ever again.

    >
    > You contradict everything I've read.


    Several people asked you what it is you are reading that
    says that. You still have not replied. If you have read so
    much that contradicts me then it should not be hard to post
    a reference or two. Alternately, you could give us some
    logical coherent reasoning to suggest what you say. Either
    would be fine by me.

    --
    00doc
     
  5. 00doc

    00doc Guest

    drhowarddrfinedrhoward wrote:
    > Too many books I've read that say that.


    OK - name one.

    > Last person who told me
    > this, a couple of weeks ago, was my personal trainer:
    > George Turner.


    I've seen many personal trainers who did not have a clue. In
    fact - I would say it is most of them.

    --
    00doc
     
  6. Larry Hodges

    Larry Hodges Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:
    > Larry Hodges wrote:
    >>> NYC XYZ wrote:
    >>>> Hi, All:
    >>>>
    >>>> I've heard different things about eating before bed...it makes you
    >>>> fat, food simply passes through without real benefit, interferes
    >>>> with a good night's sleep...does anyone know (and/or have
    >>>> links/refs) regarding this matter?
    >>>>
    >>>> I mean, is it a bad thing? (Unhealthy?) Why?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> TIA!
    >>>
    >>> I usually eat dinner at 10pm, then go right to bed. But I don't get
    >>> home from the gym until 9pm, and to deprive my body of protein and
    >>> nutrients post workout would be stupid. I also eat before I go to
    >>> the gym. Usually a protein shake with some fruit.
    >>>
    >>> It's not so much "when" you eat, but how much in a day. Excess
    >>> calories is what make you fat. When I get home from the gym, I'm
    >>> usually around 1,800 - 2,000 calories at that point. Since I'm
    >>> cutting (dropping some weight), I'm shooting for around 2,600
    >>> calories. So, dinner is around 600 calories.
    >>>
    >>> You need to estimate what your calories are to maintain your weight.
    >>> Then you can decide to eat at that to maintain, or under that to
    >>> lose weight. I like this site:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
    >>>
    >>> You could also start a free account on fitday.com and track
    >>> calories. This will also give you grams of protein / carbs / fats
    >>> eaten, which is helpful.
    >>>
    >>> If you eat more than your maintenance in a 24 hr period, you'll get
    >>> fat. If you eat under your maintenance, you'll lose weight.
    >>> Simple.

    >
    > Not quite. You can average calories over days to avoid weight gain.
    > Hence, if you eat over maintenance one day and then eat under
    > maintenance the next by the same amount, it will balance out. there
    > seems to be a lag time before the body can respond to an
    > increase/decrease relative to maintenance. IME, BTW.
    >
    >>> --
    >>> -Larry


    Good point. I stand corrected, and I should've pointed that out. It's
    just, how much detail do you provide? Most noobs need the "day by day"
    thing to understand it's calories in / calories out that determines weight
    loss.

    For me, I look at the entire week, as I tend to eat...and drink...over my
    maintenance on the weekends.
    --
    -Larry
     
  7. 00doc <[email protected]> wrote:
    >1) Not eating before bed means you go too long without food.
    >To gain muscle most experts recommend eating a small meal or
    >snack every 3-4 hours. It is bad enough that you will be
    >going 8 hours or so overnight without eating while you sleep
    >but if dinner is your last meal it will be more like 12
    >hours. In that 12 hours you will end up in a catabolic
    >state.


    It's rumored that people wake up in the middle of the
    night to pound protein shakes.

    Striving for 24/7 anabolism is slightly nuts. Does it
    matter if you reach your goal weight in 8 weeks or 8
    weeks and two days? Only if you started training two days
    too late and think that 60 grams will make a difference.

    >2) Sleep is a metabolically active time. It is
    >recouperative. You need fuel.


    If you have half a pound of fat on you, you have plenty
    of fuel for a night's sleep. If you are eating excess
    calories to anabolize, you have way more than plenty of
    fuel for a night's sleep.

    The only thing you might need at night is protein, but
    that's because you need protein every few hours because
    it doesn't store anywhere but as muscle.

    >The people that say you won't digest and use the food at
    >night are morons. Don't ever listen to a thing they say ever
    >again.


    Wasn't that Brink?

    --Blair
    "Wasn't it yams?"
     
  8. Larry Hodges

    Larry Hodges Guest

    drhowarddrfinedrhoward wrote:
    > Too many books I've read that say that. Last person who told me
    > this, a couple of weeks ago, was my personal trainer: George Turner.


    Ahh...good 'ol George. Well, it must be true then!

    Seriously, I'd love to see a cite for your claim that food doesn't digest
    when you're sleeping. Or even a book reference.
    --
    -Larry
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Robert wrote:
    > > "Bob Falooley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >> drhowarddrfinedrhoward wrote:
    > >>> Do not eat right before bed time. It does not make you fatter but
    > >>> the food will not digest until you wake in the morning. Then your
    > >>> body tries to digest it along with breakfast. You may not eat as
    > >>> much thus depriving yourself of nutrition for that day.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >> Why wouldn't the food digest when I am sleeping, why am I hungrier
    > >> when I wake up after eating right before I go to bed?
    > >>
    > >>> Depending on what you eat it can interfere with your sleep;
    > >>> indigestion or sugars trying to give you an energy boost.
    > >>
    > >> Just don't eat crap.
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>> The best is do not eat less than two hours before bed time though
    > >>> I've heard as much as three and as little as 1.5 hours.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >> I do not agree with this advice, I think you should eat whenever you
    > >> like, but ideally spread your calories throughout the day. While
    > >> bulking wake up in the middle of the night and chug a glass of milk.
    > >>
    > >> --Falooley
    > >>

    > > It's not a matter of calories as much as acid burning your esophageal
    > > valve and eventually going up into your throat. The Ashley Simpson
    > > excuse as to why she sounded like shit.
    > > If you do it all the time eventually you will have esophageal reflux
    > > disease and will have to sleep in a more upright position. Anybody
    > > with this condition knows and you don't have to ask them twice about
    > > how long one can eat before going to bed. You will find out as the
    > > years pass. That question is really one for the young foolish kids.

    >
    > I don't think it's a matter of age as much as of obesity.
    >
    > --
    > Perre
    > I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.
    >
    >

    I am not obese although I am going up there in age and as I mentioned even
    the young and non-obese can have trouble speaking waking in the morning
    after their throat has been burned up.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "Slambram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:35:36 -0800, "Robert" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >You should rephrase that from "if you have GERD" to "if you want to avoid
    > >GERD" and also if you want to avoid esophageal cancer. People don't get

    it
    > >that their is concentrated acid in their stomach and if you lie down then

    it
    > >travels back up. The esophagus and upper structures are not well suited

    for
    > >handling a constant acid load.
    > >

    >
    > If i lie down after i eat i'll get cancer?


    Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Oct;20 Suppl 5:105-10. Related Articles, Links


    Review article: what I do now to manage adenocarcinoma risk, and what I may
    be doing in 10 years' time.

    Spechler SJ.

    Division of Gastroenterology, Dallas VA Medical Center, Dallas, TX 75216,
    USA. [email protected]

    This article summarizes the present recommendations for the screening,
    surveillance and treatment of Barrett's oesophagus, and identifies those
    areas in which change seems likely within the next decade. As a result of
    economic constraints and emerging data on ethnic variations in the frequency
    of Barrett's oesophagus, future screening programmes will probably focus on
    those individuals most likely to develop Barrett's adenocarcinomas: older
    white men whose gastro-oesophageal reflux symptoms are of long duration. The
    present surveillance strategy for patients with Barrett's oesophagus relies
    heavily on random biopsy sampling of the oesophagus to find dysplasia. In
    the future, biomarkers other than dysplasia may be used to identify patients
    at high risk for carcinogenesis, and physicians may use endoscopic
    techniques, such as fluorescence spectroscopy, to identify areas of
    dysplasia for biopsy sampling. Indirect evidence suggests that
    super-aggressive antisecretory therapy and treatment with non-steroidal
    anti-inflammatory drugs may reduce the risk of cancer in Barrett's
    oesophagus. Well-designed prospective studies will be needed to determine
    whether these treatments have sufficient efficacy in cancer prophylaxis to
    justify the large numbers needed to treat. Finally, recent data are
    reviewed, which suggest that the gastro-oesophageal junction is exposed
    repeatedly to concentrated acid and to potentially genotoxic concentrations
    of nitric oxide generated from dietary nitrate. Future studies on
    carcinogenesis in Barrett's oesophagus may well focus on the combined roles
    of nitric oxide and gastric acid.

    Publication Types:
    Review
    Review, Tutorial

    PMID: 15456473 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
  11. Rene wrote:
    > "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> Hi, All:
    >>
    >> I've heard different things about eating before bed...it makes you
    >> fat, food simply passes through without real benefit, interferes
    >> with a good night's sleep...does anyone know (and/or have
    >> links/refs) regarding this matter?
    >>
    >> I mean, is it a bad thing? (Unhealthy?) Why?
    >>
    >>
    >> TIA!
    >>

    >
    > This came to my mind:
    >
    > From "Protein Power" by Drs Eades in regard to the release of human
    > growth hormone
    >
    > "A couple of important points need to be made, however. First, since
    > increased glucose levels inhibit the release of growth hormone, it
    > behooves us to avoid anything sweet, starchy or otherwise
    > carbohydrate laden before we go to bed. Any of these substances will
    > give us an elevation of blood glucose that will inhibit the normal
    > shot of growth hormone released an hour or so after our falling
    > asleep. See what all those snacks of milk and cookies at bedtime
    > have been doing to you!
    > Second, the pulse of growth hormone released by exercise generally
    > hits the circulation toward the end of the workout and immediately
    > after. If you want to inhibit this growth hormone surge, all you
    > have to do is to eat a power bar or a candy or drink fruit juice, as
    > trainers often advise you to do before, during, and right after
    > workouts in the mistaken notion that you need "explosive, high-carbo
    > energy" as on of these products advertises. What you're really
    > getting is not growth hormone. Always work out on an empty stomach,
    > don't consume anything except water during the workout, and don't eat
    > until an hour or so after. Then make sure it's a protein-rich
    > meal-you need plenty of amino acids for the growth hormone to use to
    > repair and rebuild your muscles."
    >
    > Comments?
    >
    > René


    I bet this doctor has never done a good workout in his life. That'd be all
    he'd need to realize how ridiculous the above statement is ;)

    --
    Perre
    I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.
     
  12. Peter Allen

    Peter Allen Guest

    "Rene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> Hi, All:
    >>
    >> I've heard different things about eating before bed...it makes you fat,
    >> food simply passes through without real benefit, interferes with a good
    >> night's sleep...does anyone know (and/or have links/refs) regarding
    >> this matter?
    >>
    >> I mean, is it a bad thing? (Unhealthy?) Why?
    >>
    >>
    >> TIA!
    >>

    >
    > This came to my mind:
    >
    > From "Protein Power" by Drs Eades in regard to the release of human growth
    > hormone


    .... Always work out on an
    > empty stomach, don't consume anything except water during the workout, and
    > don't eat until an hour or so after.


    Maybe if you're doing a short, not too intense session. If you're going to
    do a significant amount of work the above advice is at best stupid and at
    worst (long ride on a hot day) could kill you.

    Peter
     
  13. This is not the exact info you are asking for but it talks about what I
    mean:

    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=109

    "our digestive tracts are set up to work best when we are standing; lying
    down results in gravity pulling the "wrong way" to help food digest. Even
    though the practice of napping after a meal is common, it isn't ideal from
    the standpoint of digestion. "

    "Sleep is the least physically demanding part of the day, and the least
    logical target for release of food energy and nutrients."

    "A small snack in the hour before bed is usually not problematic if you are
    truly hungry, but the ideal solution is to time your last meal so that you
    don' feel hungry during the 1-2 hours before bed. "
     
  14. Just Google and you can find some stuff:

    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=109

    "our digestive tracts are set up to work best when we are standing; lying
    down results in gravity pulling the "wrong way" to help food digest. Even
    though the practice of napping after a meal is common, it isn't ideal from
    the standpoint of digestion. "

    "Sleep is the least physically demanding part of the day, and the least
    logical target for release of food energy and nutrients."

    "A small snack in the hour before bed is usually not problematic if you are
    truly hungry, but the ideal solution is to time your last meal so that you
    don' feel hungry during the 1-2 hours before bed. "
     
  15. George Turner told us not to eat anything 2 1/2 hours before we worked out
    and would jump down your throat if you did.
     
  16. drhowarddrfinedrhoward wrote:
    > This is not the exact info you are asking for but it talks about what I
    > mean:
    >
    > http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=109
    >
    > "our digestive tracts are set up to work best when we are standing; lying
    > down results in gravity pulling the "wrong way" to help food digest.


    I just found an explanation for your posts: you
    must be standing on your head.



    --
    Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
     
  17. Peter Allen

    Peter Allen Guest

    "drhowarddrfinedrhoward" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > George Turner told us not to eat anything 2 1/2 hours before we worked out
    > and would jump down your throat if you did.


    If you're going to do a short piece of work, then that's reasonable; you
    don't want anything sitting in your stomach where you might vomit it.

    If you're going to do an hour of weights work, then you might find that you
    run into problems with blood sugar levels getting low and screwing up your
    performance. I would, in that situation. So I'll eat a bit before or drink a
    sports drink during the workout.

    If you're doing a long bike ride, run, whatever, then you will certainly
    need to eat something, or you will deplete your glycogen stores within two
    or three hours and the rest of your ride will be unpleasant and slow. You
    also need to replace what you lose sweating; water is not good here, as it
    does not replace the salt you sweated out. If you are doing a long ride on a
    hot day, you can easily sweat more than 5 litres out; if you replace that
    with 5 litres of water you will end up with hyponatremia. This is
    particularly nasty because its symptoms are fairly similar to dehydration
    and heat exhaustion - so you are tempted to drink even more, and that makes
    it worse. If it gets serious, you will need proper medical treatment
    quickly; if you don't get it then it can be fatal.

    Peter
     
  18. Slambram

    Slambram Guest

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 06:24:17 -0600, "drhowarddrfinedrhoward"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >This is not the exact info you are asking for but it talks about what I
    >mean:
    >
    >http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=109
    >
    > isn't ideal from the standpoint of digestion. "
    >


    How did you arrive at "...the food will not digest until you wake in
    the morning" from "...isn't ideal from the standpoint of digestion."
     
  19. Slambram

    Slambram Guest

    On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 23:26:33 -0800, "Robert" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Thanks for definition of the pre-cancerous condition known as
    Barrett's oesophagus, a risk factor for people who already have GERD.

    What i'd like to know is how you arrived at the conclusion that GERD
    and esophageal cancer is caused by lying down after you eat?

    The AMA says GERD is caused mostly by obesity and genetic factors,
    http://www.gerd.com/articles/recent/abstracts/2227.htm, and lying down
    after you eat is but one of many factors which exacerbates GERD in
    patients who already have it,
    http://www.gerd.com/intro/noframe/posscaus.htm

    Please cite something which backs up your correction of Proton Soup's
    original post from ""if you have GERD" to "if you want to avoid
    GERD" and also if you want to avoid esophageal cancer.""
     
  20. I do a full hour of weight work with 12 minutes cardio.
     
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