Effect on Cycling of Radio Ablation for SI Joint

[max]

I have back pain in the sacroiliac (SI) joint, most likely the effect
of being struck by a car while riding several years ago.

My pain management doctor wants to perform radio ablation to kill the
nerves that are generating the pain. This is sort of like microwaving
that part of the pelvis and cooking the cartilage and ligaments. This
is supposed to provide at best temporary relief for as long as several
months. I have corresponded with others who have had this procedure
for similar problems, but I want to know if any cyclists have had this
procedure, and what the effects were, and for how long, particularly
the effect on riding.

As things stand, the pain limits my cycling (among other things.) As a
diagnostic procedure they shot an anaesthetic in the joint. The next
day I could ride normally for the first time in months, but it wore off
in a few days. I'm concerned because some of the people I've talked to
had severe pain after the procedure, though some eventually had good
results for several months, being relatively pain-free. However, none
were cyclists, or even very athletic. It seems to me, if you kill the
nerves, you can't feel the pain, and can make a problem worse by not
backing off.

At present I can ride at a recreational level for a few hours, but even
training eough to merely suck is out of the question.

Anyone have any experience?

 

[D. Ferguson]

On 10 Aug 2005 13:58:05 -0700, "max" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have back pain in the sacroiliac (SI) joint, most likely the effect
>of being struck by a car while riding several years ago.
>
>My pain management doctor wants to perform radio ablation to kill the
>nerves that are generating the pain. This is sort of like microwaving
>that part of the pelvis and cooking the cartilage and ligaments. This
>is supposed to provide at best temporary relief for as long as several
>months. I have corresponded with others who have had this procedure
>for similar problems, but I want to know if any cyclists have had this
>procedure, and what the effects were, and for how long, particularly
>the effect on riding.
>
>As things stand, the pain limits my cycling (among other things.) As a
>diagnostic procedure they shot an anaesthetic in the joint. The next
>day I could ride normally for the first time in months, but it wore off
>in a few days. I'm concerned because some of the people I've talked to
>had severe pain after the procedure, though some eventually had good
>results for several months, being relatively pain-free. However, none
>were cyclists, or even very athletic. It seems to me, if you kill the
>nerves, you can't feel the pain, and can make a problem worse by not
>backing off.
>
>At present I can ride at a recreational level for a few hours, but even
>training eough to merely suck is out of the question.
>
>Anyone have any experience?


As a chiropractor I have a lot of experience. Your comment about
masking symptoms and continuing, making the problem worse, is exactly
my thoughts.

Sacroiliac joints, like all joints, are made to function in a certain
manner. Correcting that dysfunction and THEN strengthening the joint
should be the goal. Not just stretching, strengthening, medicating,
etc... and hoping it will heal.

Even more interesting to you, as a cyclist, might be regarding SI
Joint dysfunction and quadriceps muscle inhibition.
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Mar-Apr;22(3):149-53.
The pain is limiting, as you know, but the dysfunction itself leads to
inhibition of the quadriceps and therefore less output on the bike.

Exactly the reason Discovery employs chiropractors. Dr. Jeff Spencer
has been on the payroll since 1999. And you might have heard on the
OLN telecast about how Armstrong is fanatical about making sure his
pelvis is not "off".

Sometimes things are so unstable that they can't be helped without
invasive measures such as you describe. But chiropractic,
prolotherapy, acupuncture, osteopathy, etc... would all carry less
risk and a higher chance of correcting the problem rather than just
making the symptoms.

Good luck. I know how painful the problem can be.

D

 

[Bill C]

D. Ferguson wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2005 13:58:05 -0700, "max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have back pain in the sacroiliac (SI) joint, most likely the effect
> >of being struck by a car while riding several years ago.
> >
> >My pain management doctor wants to perform radio ablation to kill the
> >nerves that are generating the pain. This is sort of like microwaving
> >that part of the pelvis and cooking the cartilage and ligaments. This
> >is supposed to provide at best temporary relief for as long as several
> >months. I have corresponded with others who have had this procedure
> >for similar problems, but I want to know if any cyclists have had this
> >procedure, and what the effects were, and for how long, particularly
> >the effect on riding.
> >
> >As things stand, the pain limits my cycling (among other things.) As a
> >diagnostic procedure they shot an anaesthetic in the joint. The next
> >day I could ride normally for the first time in months, but it wore off
> >in a few days. I'm concerned because some of the people I've talked to
> >had severe pain after the procedure, though some eventually had good
> >results for several months, being relatively pain-free. However, none
> >were cyclists, or even very athletic. It seems to me, if you kill the
> >nerves, you can't feel the pain, and can make a problem worse by not
> >backing off.
> >
> >At present I can ride at a recreational level for a few hours, but even
> >training eough to merely suck is out of the question.
> >
> >Anyone have any experience?
>
>
> As a chiropractor I have a lot of experience. Your comment about
> masking symptoms and continuing, making the problem worse, is exactly
> my thoughts.
>
> Sacroiliac joints, like all joints, are made to function in a certain
> manner. Correcting that dysfunction and THEN strengthening the joint
> should be the goal. Not just stretching, strengthening, medicating,
> etc... and hoping it will heal.
>
> Even more interesting to you, as a cyclist, might be regarding SI
> Joint dysfunction and quadriceps muscle inhibition.
> J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Mar-Apr;22(3):149-53.
> The pain is limiting, as you know, but the dysfunction itself leads to
> inhibition of the quadriceps and therefore less output on the bike.
>
> Exactly the reason Discovery employs chiropractors. Dr. Jeff Spencer
> has been on the payroll since 1999. And you might have heard on the
> OLN telecast about how Armstrong is fanatical about making sure his
> pelvis is not "off".
>
> Sometimes things are so unstable that they can't be helped without
> invasive measures such as you describe. But chiropractic,
> prolotherapy, acupuncture, osteopathy, etc... would all carry less
> risk and a higher chance of correcting the problem rather than just
> making the symptoms.
>
> Good luck. I know how painful the problem can be.
>
> D
Have you seen any follow-up studies to that? I've been dealing with
the same thing, with perfectly matching symptoms since I tore up the
muscles around the SI way back in Feb. When we finally got a good
diagnosis, the treatment was cortisone, and immobilization with a heavy
duty brace when doing anything standing basically. My limit riding
before my legs just flat stopped working was about 1 1/2 hours,
yesterday after a couple of weeks with the brace and the shots a week
ago I was able to do a solid 3 hours with more climbing than I've done
in the past 2 years combined. But as you pointed out my legs aren't
anywhere near full strength again, but I do seem to be really making
progress now.
Thanks for the info.
Bill C

 

[Jet]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:22:38 -0400, D. Ferguson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 10 Aug 2005 13:58:05 -0700, "max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I have back pain in the sacroiliac (SI) joint, most likely the effect
>>of being struck by a car while riding several years ago.
>>
>>My pain management doctor wants to perform radio ablation to kill the
>>nerves that are generating the pain. This is sort of like microwaving
>>that part of the pelvis and cooking the cartilage and ligaments. This
>>is supposed to provide at best temporary relief for as long as several
>>months. I have corresponded with others who have had this procedure
>>for similar problems, but I want to know if any cyclists have had this
>>procedure, and what the effects were, and for how long, particularly
>>the effect on riding.
>>
>>As things stand, the pain limits my cycling (among other things.) As a
>>diagnostic procedure they shot an anaesthetic in the joint. The next
>>day I could ride normally for the first time in months, but it wore off
>>in a few days. I'm concerned because some of the people I've talked to
>>had severe pain after the procedure, though some eventually had good
>>results for several months, being relatively pain-free. However, none
>>were cyclists, or even very athletic. It seems to me, if you kill the
>>nerves, you can't feel the pain, and can make a problem worse by not
>>backing off.
>>
>>At present I can ride at a recreational level for a few hours, but even
>>training eough to merely suck is out of the question.
>>
>>Anyone have any experience?
>
>
>As a chiropractor I have a lot of experience. Your comment about
>masking symptoms and continuing, making the problem worse, is exactly
>my thoughts.
>
>Sacroiliac joints, like all joints, are made to function in a certain
>manner. Correcting that dysfunction and THEN strengthening the joint
>should be the goal. Not just stretching, strengthening, medicating,
>etc... and hoping it will heal.
>
>Even more interesting to you, as a cyclist, might be regarding SI
>Joint dysfunction and quadriceps muscle inhibition.
> J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Mar-Apr;22(3):149-53.
>The pain is limiting, as you know, but the dysfunction itself leads to
>inhibition of the quadriceps and therefore less output on the bike.
>
>Exactly the reason Discovery employs chiropractors. Dr. Jeff Spencer
>has been on the payroll since 1999. And you might have heard on the
>OLN telecast about how Armstrong is fanatical about making sure his
>pelvis is not "off".
>
>Sometimes things are so unstable that they can't be helped without
>invasive measures such as you describe. But chiropractic,
>prolotherapy, acupuncture, osteopathy, etc... would all carry less
>risk and a higher chance of correcting the problem rather than just
>making the symptoms.
>
>Good luck. I know how painful the problem can be.
>
>D

FYI the abstract is in pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10220713&dopt=Citation

I also have some kind of SI problem that seems to manifest as piriformis
syndrome, but in my case may be due to some problems with the L3 joint
according to a diagram I saw. I have loss of ability to contract the left
gluteus, and my outer quad is often very tense, as well as the area to the
outside and front of my hip joint. Here's a link to a diagram I made.

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=08MZRZMTLELJY0V9ADQT3XE9IX

The places in red are the spasmed/affected areas, but include the
piriformis region, also. A few times the whole thing has spontaneously
relaxed and I spent the whole day without pain, no limping or anything.

Ever heard of anything like this? I'd like to go to a chiro, but I'm a bit
afraid of their 'high velocity' technique.

It doesn't seem to have too great a negative effect on my cycling - my knee
feels fine, and pedalling doesn't hurt. Can't jog and I limp some of the
time.

TIA,

jj

 

[max]

"Correcting the dysfunction" is what I'd like to do. I've attempted to
treat this for years (pt, chiropracty, and osteopathy.) The last
helped the most but no longer. MRI shows calcified superior ventral SI
ligament, and a bony structure arising from the ligament, bridging the
joint. Osteopath says the joint is imobile on that side. I wouldn't
expect prolotherapy to work as it treats hypermobile joints. Excision
of the bridging structure even if it would work (physiatrist is
doubtful) is a risky procedure requiring major surgery, which doctors
seem unwilling to do without trying other modalities first.

I've found a study which seems to show no better results that a placebo
for ablation of the SI joint. I don't see any treatment obtions, and
just trying RF ablation because nothing else is available doesn't seem
so smart either. Stull, I was hoping maybe it had helped someone.....

 

[D. Ferguson]

On 10 Aug 2005 16:10:44 -0700, "Bill C" <[email protected]> wrote:


> Have you seen any follow-up studies to that? I've been dealing with
>the same thing, with perfectly matching symptoms since I tore up the
>muscles around the SI way back in Feb. When we finally got a good
>diagnosis, the treatment was cortisone, and immobilization with a heavy
>duty brace when doing anything standing basically. My limit riding
>before my legs just flat stopped working was about 1 1/2 hours,
>yesterday after a couple of weeks with the brace and the shots a week
>ago I was able to do a solid 3 hours with more climbing than I've done
>in the past 2 years combined. But as you pointed out my legs aren't
>anywhere near full strength again, but I do seem to be really making
>progress now.
> Thanks for the info.
>Bill C

Conservative lower back treatment reduces inhibition in knee-extensor
muscles: a randomized controlled trial.
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 2000 Feb;23(2):76-80. Related Articles,
Links


The biggest thing I find with SI joints is to first find out which
direction they are misaligned and/or restricted in motion, correct
that and then avoid specific postures and movements which stress the
joint in that direction. Sleeping postures being one of the most
common culprits.

I could just about make a living telling people to take the damn heat
off of it. I think only in America are doctors so dumb that they'll
tell people to put ice on extremity problems but to put heat on their
back. Imagine watching Shaq come off the court with a sprained ankle
and wrapping a heating pad around it.

D

 

[D. Ferguson]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:35:44 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:


>I also have some kind of SI problem that seems to manifest as piriformis
>syndrome, but in my case may be due to some problems with the L3 joint
>according to a diagram I saw. I have loss of ability to contract the left
>gluteus, and my outer quad is often very tense, as well as the area to the
>outside and front of my hip joint. Here's a link to a diagram I made.
>
>http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=08MZRZMTLELJY0V9ADQT3XE9IX
>
>The places in red are the spasmed/affected areas, but include the
>piriformis region, also. A few times the whole thing has spontaneously
>relaxed and I spent the whole day without pain, no limping or anything.
>
>Ever heard of anything like this? I'd like to go to a chiro, but I'm a bit
>afraid of their 'high velocity' technique.
>
>It doesn't seem to have too great a negative effect on my cycling - my knee
>feels fine, and pedalling doesn't hurt. Can't jog and I limp some of the
>time.
>
>TIA,
>
>jj


I can see why it's confusing. You have indications of L3 problems as
well as SI joint problems. I assume the symptoms are all on the same
side? Have you had an MRI?

As for going to a chiro and safety... the only real danger is
rotational adjusting of the cervical spine which carries a risk 500%
less than taking one aspirin. The rate of complications for low back
adjusting are miniscule. Which is the reason chiropractors have
malpractice insurance rates less than 10% of anyone else.

Regarding "high velocity", there are over 100 chiropractic techniques
and many of them are very gentle and beyond safe. You just need to
find the right doc for you.

D

 

[Bill C]

D. Ferguson wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2005 16:10:44 -0700, "Bill C" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> > Have you seen any follow-up studies to that? I've been dealing with
> >the same thing, with perfectly matching symptoms since I tore up the
> >muscles around the SI way back in Feb. When we finally got a good
> >diagnosis, the treatment was cortisone, and immobilization with a heavy
> >duty brace when doing anything standing basically. My limit riding
> >before my legs just flat stopped working was about 1 1/2 hours,
> >yesterday after a couple of weeks with the brace and the shots a week
> >ago I was able to do a solid 3 hours with more climbing than I've done
> >in the past 2 years combined. But as you pointed out my legs aren't
> >anywhere near full strength again, but I do seem to be really making
> >progress now.
> > Thanks for the info.
> >Bill C
>
> Conservative lower back treatment reduces inhibition in knee-extensor
> muscles: a randomized controlled trial.
> J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 2000 Feb;23(2):76-80. Related Articles,
> Links
>
>
> The biggest thing I find with SI joints is to first find out which
> direction they are misaligned and/or restricted in motion, correct
> that and then avoid specific postures and movements which stress the
> joint in that direction. Sleeping postures being one of the most
> common culprits.
>
> I could just about make a living telling people to take the damn heat
> off of it. I think only in America are doctors so dumb that they'll
> tell people to put ice on extremity problems but to put heat on their
> back. Imagine watching Shaq come off the court with a sprained ankle
> and wrapping a heating pad around it.
>
> D
I really like the guy I'm seeing, and he agrees with you on the heat
100%.
He said, ice, no heat, get it stabilised then we'll work on
strengthening the area. He works with, and refers a lot of people for
further work to a couple of Chiros and a personal trainer that I really
like and respect. Sounds like your someone he'd work well with. he
shares your high opinion of some of the other people out there.
Thanks for the additional stuff.
Bill C

 

[D. Ferguson]

On 10 Aug 2005 16:36:43 -0700, "max" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Correcting the dysfunction" is what I'd like to do. I've attempted to
>treat this for years (pt, chiropracty, and osteopathy.) The last
>helped the most but no longer. MRI shows calcified superior ventral SI
>ligament, and a bony structure arising from the ligament, bridging the
>joint. Osteopath says the joint is imobile on that side. I wouldn't
>expect prolotherapy to work as it treats hypermobile joints. Excision
>of the bridging structure even if it would work (physiatrist is
>doubtful) is a risky procedure requiring major surgery, which doctors
>seem unwilling to do without trying other modalities first.
>
>I've found a study which seems to show no better results that a placebo
>for ablation of the SI joint. I don't see any treatment obtions, and
>just trying RF ablation because nothing else is available doesn't seem
>so smart either. Stull, I was hoping maybe it had helped someone.....


Yuk, that's a tough road you've been on.

I think the ablation will work. For awhile. But during that time you
do risk more injury. However, if it really is imobile then it
shouldn't be too much damage.

Excision is certainly a risk but gaining mobility in the joint would
be a step in the right direction. Example being, if you had to sit
with your finger bent to a certain position all day it would start to
hurt in that joint. Early on in SI joint dysfunction they now believe
that muscles contract to support and become ligamentous, then finally
calcify into bone.

"The altered biomechanical environment produced by spinal
fixation..... can affect the ligamentous properties in vivo, possibly
serving as the impetus for low back pain."
Spine. 1998 Mar 15;23(6):672-82; discussion 682-3.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

D

 

[Jet]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:52:54 -0400, D. Ferguson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:35:44 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I also have some kind of SI problem that seems to manifest as piriformis
>>syndrome, but in my case may be due to some problems with the L3 joint
>>according to a diagram I saw. I have loss of ability to contract the left
>>gluteus, and my outer quad is often very tense, as well as the area to the
>>outside and front of my hip joint. Here's a link to a diagram I made.
>>
>>http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=08MZRZMTLELJY0V9ADQT3XE9IX
>>
>>The places in red are the spasmed/affected areas, but include the
>>piriformis region, also. A few times the whole thing has spontaneously
>>relaxed and I spent the whole day without pain, no limping or anything.
>>
>>Ever heard of anything like this? I'd like to go to a chiro, but I'm a bit
>>afraid of their 'high velocity' technique.
>>
>>It doesn't seem to have too great a negative effect on my cycling - my knee
>>feels fine, and pedalling doesn't hurt. Can't jog and I limp some of the
>>time.
>>
>>TIA,
>>
>>jj
>
>
>I can see why it's confusing. You have indications of L3 problems as
>well as SI joint problems. I assume the symptoms are all on the same
>side?

Yes, the left side. I'm mostly unable to rotate my bent foot to the outside
- which I think is 'internal rotation of the hip', and I have trouble
crossing my left foot onto my right knee, seated.

>Have you had an MRI?

Well it's a bit of a long story, but briefly, when I first injured myself
about 4-5 years ago, the doc disagreed with the physical therapist which he
-did- send me to initially. The doc was sure it was arthritis of the hip
joint and wanted to do an MRI with a galladium injection. I thought this
was too invasive and did not want my joint capsule punctured. I later
learned that it's possible to do a standard MRI, which may not tell you as
much, it tells you a lot. This was a worker's comp claim (which might tell
you something later in the story). So no, I have not have an MRI - he
didn't bother to offer me a less invasive option at the time, the son-of-a-
beyotch!

The PT thought it was straight piriformis syndrome and actually got me some
relief with some low velocity, high amplitude stretching and 'untwisting my
SI joint/sacrum'.

The sports med doc became irate at my foot dragging and insisted on doing a
THR, (I think he was irritated at a worker's comp claim, and I suspect it
wouldn't have bought him the big screen TV he was craving.<g>) In fact he
became so irritated he hit me repeatedly on the knee with his reflex hammer
until I actually said 'ouch!'

The problem was that there was -every- indication that it was -not-
arthritis of the hip joint and that this joint was fine. He based his
diagnosis on one set of xrays (no pre injury xray was available and he
decided solely on the basis of the thickness of my hip cartilage in -one-
hip joint - didn't even do the other hip to compare).

So in summary I quit going to him and besides a few PT sessions, I've just
been dealing with it. They used some half-fast ultrasound and stuff which
didn't do squat. At the time I wasn't clear where the root cause was and it
was only much later I found the diagram I sent.

The pain has reduced to a low level, but I still have some mobility
problems as outlined above. The biggest effect is the disparity in size and
function of my gluteus maximus which is almost atrophied on the left side.

I'm trying to talk my current doc into an MRI and he mentioned injecting
cortisone into the intra spinal cord area, which also sounds scary -
requiring a special procedure to do it - as a possible pain relief therapy.

>
>As for going to a chiro and safety... the only real danger is
>rotational adjusting of the cervical spine which carries a risk 500%
>less than taking one aspirin. The rate of complications for low back
>adjusting are miniscule. Which is the reason chiropractors have
>malpractice insurance rates less than 10% of anyone else.
>
>Regarding "high velocity", there are over 100 chiropractic techniques
>and many of them are very gentle and beyond safe. You just need to
>find the right doc for you.

Ah, there's the rub. How does one do that?

Thanks for the info.

jj
>
>D

 

[D. Ferguson]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:37:32 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Yes, the left side. I'm mostly unable to rotate my bent foot to the outside
>- which I think is 'internal rotation of the hip', and I have trouble
>crossing my left foot onto my right knee, seated.
>
>>Have you had an MRI?
>
>Well it's a bit of a long story, but briefly, when I first injured myself
>about 4-5 years ago, the doc disagreed with the physical therapist which he
>-did- send me to initially. The doc was sure it was arthritis of the hip
>joint and wanted to do an MRI with a galladium injection. I thought this
>was too invasive and did not want my joint capsule punctured. I later
>learned that it's possible to do a standard MRI, which may not tell you as
>much, it tells you a lot. This was a worker's comp claim (which might tell
>you something later in the story). So no, I have not have an MRI - he
>didn't bother to offer me a less invasive option at the time, the son-of-a-
>beyotch!
>
>The PT thought it was straight piriformis syndrome and actually got me some
>relief with some low velocity, high amplitude stretching and 'untwisting my
>SI joint/sacrum'.
>
>The sports med doc became irate at my foot dragging and insisted on doing a
>THR, (I think he was irritated at a worker's comp claim, and I suspect it
>wouldn't have bought him the big screen TV he was craving.<g>) In fact he
>became so irritated he hit me repeatedly on the knee with his reflex hammer
>until I actually said 'ouch!'
>
>The problem was that there was -every- indication that it was -not-
>arthritis of the hip joint and that this joint was fine. He based his
>diagnosis on one set of xrays (no pre injury xray was available and he
>decided solely on the basis of the thickness of my hip cartilage in -one-
>hip joint - didn't even do the other hip to compare).
>
>So in summary I quit going to him and besides a few PT sessions, I've just
>been dealing with it. They used some half-fast ultrasound and stuff which
>didn't do squat. At the time I wasn't clear where the root cause was and it
>was only much later I found the diagram I sent.
>
>The pain has reduced to a low level, but I still have some mobility
>problems as outlined above. The biggest effect is the disparity in size and
>function of my gluteus maximus which is almost atrophied on the left side.
>
>I'm trying to talk my current doc into an MRI and he mentioned injecting
>cortisone into the intra spinal cord area, which also sounds scary -
>requiring a special procedure to do it - as a possible pain relief therapy.
>
>>
>>As for going to a chiro and safety... the only real danger is
>>rotational adjusting of the cervical spine which carries a risk 500%
>>less than taking one aspirin. The rate of complications for low back
>>adjusting are miniscule. Which is the reason chiropractors have
>>malpractice insurance rates less than 10% of anyone else.
>>
>>Regarding "high velocity", there are over 100 chiropractic techniques
>>and many of them are very gentle and beyond safe. You just need to
>>find the right doc for you.
>
>Ah, there's the rub. How does one do that?
>
>Thanks for the info.
>
>jj
>>
>>D


Good Lord. A hip replacement?

Do you mean that you have trouble lifting the lateral edge of your
foot up? Are you weaker raising your big toe or that foot up in
general, flexing at the ankle?

Basically you have symptoms of left L3 nerve root irritation. left
L5/S1 nerve root irritation and left sacroiliac joint dysfuntion with
resulting piriformis muscle contraction(which itself can irritate the
sciatic nerve) and possible what is called scleretogenous
pain(referred pain). A lumbar MRI is going to tell you what and how
much encroachment there is on the nerve roots. With atrophy in the
glute and what sounds like "foot drop" you are, on a scale of one to
ten in needing an MRI, an eleven.

Hell, no wonder you're scared to trust what anyone says. It's been a
clusterfudge from the start.

As for finding a DC in your area if you tell me what city/state I can
usually come up with a name from a book that lists DCs and what
techniques they SAY they use. [email protected] if you don't want
to post it up here. Not sure exactly who, if anyone, will be able to
help but you need to AT LEAST be getting some real information.

D

 

[Jet]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:32:33 -0400, D. Ferguson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>Regarding "high velocity", there are over 100 chiropractic techniques
>>>and many of them are very gentle and beyond safe. You just need to
>>>find the right doc for you.
>>
>>Ah, there's the rub. How does one do that?
>>
>>Thanks for the info.
>>
>>jj
>>>
>>>D
>
>
>Good Lord. A hip replacement?

Dave, thanks for the kind offer. It is greatly appreciated. I emailed my
reply to your [email protected] address. Let me know if you don't get
it and I'll try again. My address on the ng is a spam trap, but the email
return addy should be valid.

Best,

jj

 

[Jet]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:02:26 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:32:33 -0400, D. Ferguson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>Regarding "high velocity", there are over 100 chiropractic techniques
>>>>and many of them are very gentle and beyond safe. You just need to
>>>>find the right doc for you.
>>>
>>>Ah, there's the rub. How does one do that?
>>>
>>>Thanks for the info.
>>>
>>>jj
>>>>
>>>>D
>>
>>
>>Good Lord. A hip replacement?
>
>Dave, thanks for the kind offer. It is greatly appreciated. I emailed my
>reply to your [email protected] address. Let me know if you don't get
>it and I'll try again. My address on the ng is a spam trap, but the email
>return addy should be valid.
>
>Best,
>
>jj

Oops, I forgot to include my location in the email, but quickly appended it
in a second message with the header "Correction". My bad. Sorry 'bout that.

jj

 

[max]

Thanks. The calcification appears to be ligaments, not muscle. The
bridging osteophyte may be a deformity from breaking the sacrum. My
left side, glutes and associated muscles, are hypertrophied, noticeably
larger than right side; The best study on ablation I found showed
results consistent with placebo effect in the "successful" group, about
36% had pain relief for an average of 6 months. The non-successful
group averaged 0.9 months of pain relief. Factor associated with
succesful outcome: atraumatic origin of SI syndrome. Factors
associated with unsuccessful outcome: determination of disability and
pain on lateral flexion. Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2001
Mar-Apr;26(2):137-42. PMID: 11251137 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I have both the negative factors and have a traumatic origin. Doesn't
look like it will be very helppful. Among those I've talked to who've
had the procedure, most complain of severe pain afterward, for three
days to several weeks. I've elected to postpone the procedure, and
look for alternatives. It doesn't seem worth it given the odds. I
want to discuss it with my pain management doctor. I wonder if
prolotherapy on the other side, so the sacrum doesn't rotate in the
lateral plane of the body, would help. (Model I've constructed
indicates osteophyte would serve as a fulcrum with movement of the
sacrum, resulting in pressure in the joint where the diagnostic
injection found the nerves were causing the pain. I think pressure
from the sacrum on the pelvic side of the joint is the cause of the
pain.)

If I do seated intervals, I hurt all day. If I do a hilly ride and a
lot of climbing while standing, then it seems therapeutic; I feel
almost normal for days at a time. That is if I don't remain seated for
too long. Lying flat on my back on the floor is often the most
comfortable position I can find. :-(

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:37:32 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm trying to talk my current doc into an MRI and he mentioned injecting
>cortisone into the intra spinal cord area, which also sounds scary -
>requiring a special procedure to do it - as a possible pain relief therapy.

Isn't that pretty much an epidural, ie something pregnant women the world
over get as a matter of course during delivery if they want? It sounds
scary, yes, but it must be something they really know how to do well.


Jasper

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

max wrote:
> I have back pain in the sacroiliac (SI) joint, most likely the effect
> of being struck by a car while riding several years ago.

>
> Anyone have any experience?

I got hit three years ago, broke two vertabrae. BUT I too had a lot of
pain when riding. I did three none evasive things before I had anybody
give me shots or kill anything with radio waves.

Bike fit, Massage therapy and Rolfing. I can now ride as I did before
with onlt a wee bit of pain after 3 hrs or so. Try these non evasive
things before you get 'shot. I still see a massage therapist twice per
week, for riding but for standing for extended periods at the shop
also.

 

[Jet]

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:41:39 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:37:32 -0400, Jet<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to talk my current doc into an MRI and he mentioned injecting
>>cortisone into the intra spinal cord area, which also sounds scary -
>>requiring a special procedure to do it - as a possible pain relief therapy.
>
>Isn't that pretty much an epidural, ie something pregnant women the world
>over get as a matter of course during delivery if they want? It sounds
>scary, yes, but it must be something they really know how to do well.
>
>
>Jasper

Can we take this thread to just one newsgroup? Hate to crosspost to all
three?

Yeah it is the epidural, aimed at quieting the sensory nerve at the T-3
area, (apparently). Having worked in the ER, and other parts of the
hospital for 30 years, you become sensitized to hospital/surgical
"problems". I don't want to trade a relatively minor problem for any of
those without a lot of careful thinking and trying everything else.

jj

 

[[email protected]]

JJ, stop being a baby an give yourself a chance to rid the pain with a
cortizone injection. You've let this get pretty well developed, on
your own. If as prior posts indicate your soft tissue is congealing
around your joint and calcifying, cortizone is a really good product to
effect the highest degree of mobility at the joint, again.

Just that alone may be enough to get you back on the bike.

 

[D. Ferguson]

On 21 Aug 2005 19:45:56 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>JJ, stop being a baby an give yourself a chance to rid the pain with a
>cortizone injection. You've let this get pretty well developed, on
>your own. If as prior posts indicate your soft tissue is congealing
>around your joint and calcifying, cortizone is a really good product to
>effect the highest degree of mobility at the joint, again.
>
>Just that alone may be enough to get you back on the bike.




:-\