elavated testosterone!!!

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by Danneh, Apr 6, 2003.

  1. Danneh

    Danneh New Member

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    From what ive been reading it seems testosterone plays quiet a large role reducing recovery time mainly i guess by increasing the synthesis of new muscle. Does anyone have any opinions/knowledge on how to elavate testosterone levels without using steroids? Has anyone tried ZMA? What about natural pro hormones like Tribulus Terrestris, is this also frowned upon/illigal in cycling?

    I would appreciate views/experience on this issue, thanks.
     
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  2. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    There are other ways to boost performance; by training effectivly, sleeping well, hydration and nutrition. I think that you should explore all of these options before attempting to alter your testosterone profile.

    Altering your testosterone is always going to be problematic and there will always be some risk of side effects if the change is large enough. Manipulating you testosterone in this way also raises moral and legal questions.

    I think that you should persue the other sources of performance improvement. These are often cheaper, more reliable and more effective (particularly better training and nutrition).
     
  3. Danneh

    Danneh New Member

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    I guess my reason for exploring this area is, my recovery time is horrendous, my fitness is improving but very slowly. Typically at the moment i am doing two 25 mile rides per week one if i ride thursday it takes until the following wednesday until my mucsles feel like i can work them again. Ive been doing 2-3 rides per week like this for about 4 months. I really dont know whats holding me back, i sleep well, i eat well. I have the time to train more as well as the motivation but realise i have to let my body recover. Any thoughts on what im doing wrong?
     
  4. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Do you have any other symptoms, other than muscle soreness, that suggests you should lay off training?
     
  5. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

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    Danneh:

    Yes testosterone does help a lot with protein synthesis and will make your muscles bigger and stronger (you still have to train).

    The human body releases extra bursts of testosterone and growth hormone with intense exercise. Lifting weights does it, and doing high-intensity training on the bike will do it also. Riding easy will not. If you regularly train hard 2-4 times a week, you will be getting extra natural bursts of these hormones.

    Recovery is so ignored, people just don't plan for it or think about it very much. Top riders don't worry about training hard, they worry about recovering well. Without recovery you have nothing.

    You need to ride a lot more. Twice a week is not enough to maintain fitness. Your body is going back to square one when you wait 6-7 days to ride again. It would be better to ride 10-15 miles 4-6 times a week, to start, gradually going up to 25 miles or more several times a week.

    Often, muscle soreness will persist until your next workout, then it disappears as if nothing were ever wrong. The sensory nerves that transmit pain get so locked into pain transmission, they just keep sending the signal until you break the signal up with more training. That's one reason why recovery rides are so important. They can get you out of pain sooner.

    You might find that training the next day isn't so bad after all. Even if your legs are sore, jump on the bike anyway, and ride easy. In 30-60 minutes your legs should loosen up a lot and not feel sore or tired. Maybe they will, but you will never know until you try it. Even if they are sore the next day, that's ok. That's what easy recovery rides are for!!!

    Good luck!!!
     
  6. tourdelivermore

    tourdelivermore New Member

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    I've used ZMA as part of a nutrition supplement program including Multi-vitamin, C, E for over a year. My exercise routine is heavy cycling, light running and strength training. My diet is high protein, low fat and low carbohydrate. I had to lose weight 18 months ago (45lbs) and still maintain the diet.

    The results have been significant in adding muscle mass. I've added about 10 lbs with a decrease in body fat as measured on a Tanita scale. Other effects have been restfull sleep and latent acne...the whole program really does effect testosterone levels as witnessed by a lay person.

    I am just about to discontinue use as my mass is becoming a detriment. Having a proportionate look with a larger upper body doesn't help climbing. Having large legs that can't 'put out' don't mean a thing. I look great, but I'm moving the focus to performance cycling.

    As for recovery, I haven't noticed any advantage with ZMA. Although the vender reports to 'reduce damage from free radicles', I don't think it's anything a good recovery ride wouldn't take care of (not my area of expertise).

    Do some research, there are clearly documented benefits, especially from Zinc. I don't believe it will be harmful to add this to your supplement program. I'm just not sure that there are benefits to cycling performance.
     
  7. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    I'm not sure what ZMA is, but I think that Zinc can be quite toxic for the body when taken for extended periods or in high doses.
     
  8. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

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    Most if not all supplements are pretty much worthless. The rate of absorption is very poor, and if you eat "normal" foods, you will get plenty of what you need for the most part.

    Anything taken to excess can be toxic. Zinc is critical for protein synthesis and bolsters the immune system. The most toxic supplements you can buy are iron and vitamin A. Taking iron is very bad unless you have been diagnosed with iron-deficiency anemia and were told by your doctor to take it. Excess iron is toxic to your organs.

    tourdelivermore:

    It is very doughtful ZMA helped you. You probably got everything you needed from the food you eat. Taking a mulitivitamin is probably a good idea though, just to be sure. Putting on 10 lbs of muscle in 18 months is very easy to do. Actually, you could have put on a lot more than that eating fast food and taking no supplements. I've posted here before about prisoners packing on 20-40 lbs of muscle in one year living on low-quality prison food and taking no supplements whatsoever. And these gains were mostly from doing pushups and pullups with no weight equipment.

    The only ergogenic aids that truly work to improve sports performance are illegal and are dangerous to your health.
     
  9. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    J-Mat, althought i agree in principle with what you've said, your last statement is plainly untrue. There are lots of supplements that are ergogenic and are not dangerous to health. There are supplements that have been shown to have an ergogenic effect using good methodologies within studies (e.g., randomised, placebo, double-blind crossover).

    Briefly, caffeine, sodium bicarbonate, sodium phosphate, creatine, carbohydrates, etc all have been shown to be ergogenic.

    Ric
     
  10. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

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    Ric:

    You are correct about the last part. Carbs, caffine, etc. are ergogenic and are safe, but I was refering to stuff that makes profound difference. I've used everything you listed except for the sodium phosphate, and can't reccomend anything but caffine and carbs.

    Creatine has questionable value. I noticed a very slight increase in expolsive power like closing a gap, etc., but it can upset your stomach and I think it stresses the kidneys too much. It was hardly worth the expense, and you know my experience with bicarb!!!

    Be careful with caffine if you compete, especially at the highest levels. Caffine in proper doses can give a potent advantage, but you risk a doping violation if caught with too much. Just ask Gianni Bugno!!!

    The main reason I said what I said was in reference to the weight training and adding muscle mass. Legal ergogenic aids for weightlifting make very little if any difference.

    Oh, and tourdelivermore: I hope you don't think I was bagging on your progress or anything. Good for you that you have put on 10 lbs of muscle and changed your life around for the better. Keep up the good work!!!
     
  11. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Just to clarify, i included various ergogenic aids, but wasn't specific about what events they would be beneficial for -- i.e., was just making braod statements. I don't believe that (e.g.) creatine is useful for endurance cycling.

    As with most things, you should try them out in training first, rather than a race, so that if you do suffer problems it isn't a problem.

    Originally, it was thought that for caffeine to be ergogenic it was required in large doses (e.g., 6+mg/kg body mass). However, recent studies (sorry, can't recall these references :eek: !) have shown it to be much smaller amounts that are well within the legal limits. I should point out that caffeine has different effects on different people and under different (e.g. environmental) conditions, in that what one person might test negative for another might test positive for.

    Finally, non of these supplements (and even the illegal stuff like Epo), will enhance your abilities that much (about 10 - 12% in the case of sustainable power for Epo) -- the best ergogenic aids are proper training and nutrition.

    Ric
     
  12. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

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    It does make you wonder why a rider who is 25 years old would risk having a stroke in his sleep for a little extra power.

    forget pills and potions. The only true recipie for success is hard work!!!
     
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