B
Bret
Guest
On Aug 15, 11:31 pm, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
> Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 6:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > "Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > >> ONE DOLLAR only pays for the controller.
>
> > > > For an electronic designer you are really struggling badly with the
> > > > notion of electronics.
>
> > > For some jerk who doesn't know anything about it you certainly are mouthy. I
> > > can buy a half dozen microcontrollers with enough computational power to do
> > > that job for a buck each. Right now I'm designing a medical probe that's a
> > > throw away after every patient that will have a controller in it.
>
> > > So by all means tell me all about it you nitwit.
>
> > You started out saying that electronics were too expensive for high
> > end bike equipment, despite the fact that it's already there in power
> > meters, HR monitors and cyclometers. When I called you on that you
> > fell back to the red herring of the expense of motors and power
> > supplies. Now you've back pedaled to the point where you are arguing
> > that electronics are so cheap that they're practically disposable.
> > That's basically my argument taken to an extreme. And I'm the mouthy
> > jerk who doesn't know WTF I'm talking about?
>
> > My opinion is that the Mavic Zap/Mektronic suffered from poorly
> > designed electronics. It had neither motors nor high power
> > requirements, so your red herring is a non sequitur. I'm aware of
> > Jobst Brandt's criticisms of the mechanical design, but everything I
> > heard about it had to do with electronic failures which should be
> > easily correctable. One of my teammates back in the 90's was a bike
> > shop owner, Mavic dealer and Zap user. I asked him about the failure
> > modes and he agreed that it was all about the electronics. Knowing
> > that electronics can be made reliable, I see no obstacle to a Mavic
> > Zap equivalent being marketed that is both reliable and economical.
> > Others have posted in this thread that the mechanics were good when
> > the electronics kept working.
>
> I seem to recall Leonard Zinn mentioning somewhere that there was a guy up in
> Colorado who did work on Zaps back in the mid '90s that got them to work pretty
> reliably. As I recall it was all electronic work too. By the way, do you have a link
> to JB's criticisms or should I JFG it? I'd be interested in what he has to say about
> it.
I remember that too and know the guy he was talking about, Alan Hills.
He is (was?) an electronics tech at NCAR that repaired a failed zap
system that he got cheap. The article was about how to build a light/
cheap climbing bike on a budget. It's simple really, you just go out
and find some failed Zap components and repair it. The guy's a friend
of Zin and also took part in Zin's crank length experiments.
I also recall reading somewhere that there was a basic flaw in the Zap
circuitry. A missing pullup or something that could lead to a failure.
Google Jobst and Zap in Google Groups and I'm sure you'll find it.
Bret
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
> Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 6:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > "Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > >> ONE DOLLAR only pays for the controller.
>
> > > > For an electronic designer you are really struggling badly with the
> > > > notion of electronics.
>
> > > For some jerk who doesn't know anything about it you certainly are mouthy. I
> > > can buy a half dozen microcontrollers with enough computational power to do
> > > that job for a buck each. Right now I'm designing a medical probe that's a
> > > throw away after every patient that will have a controller in it.
>
> > > So by all means tell me all about it you nitwit.
>
> > You started out saying that electronics were too expensive for high
> > end bike equipment, despite the fact that it's already there in power
> > meters, HR monitors and cyclometers. When I called you on that you
> > fell back to the red herring of the expense of motors and power
> > supplies. Now you've back pedaled to the point where you are arguing
> > that electronics are so cheap that they're practically disposable.
> > That's basically my argument taken to an extreme. And I'm the mouthy
> > jerk who doesn't know WTF I'm talking about?
>
> > My opinion is that the Mavic Zap/Mektronic suffered from poorly
> > designed electronics. It had neither motors nor high power
> > requirements, so your red herring is a non sequitur. I'm aware of
> > Jobst Brandt's criticisms of the mechanical design, but everything I
> > heard about it had to do with electronic failures which should be
> > easily correctable. One of my teammates back in the 90's was a bike
> > shop owner, Mavic dealer and Zap user. I asked him about the failure
> > modes and he agreed that it was all about the electronics. Knowing
> > that electronics can be made reliable, I see no obstacle to a Mavic
> > Zap equivalent being marketed that is both reliable and economical.
> > Others have posted in this thread that the mechanics were good when
> > the electronics kept working.
>
> I seem to recall Leonard Zinn mentioning somewhere that there was a guy up in
> Colorado who did work on Zaps back in the mid '90s that got them to work pretty
> reliably. As I recall it was all electronic work too. By the way, do you have a link
> to JB's criticisms or should I JFG it? I'd be interested in what he has to say about
> it.
I remember that too and know the guy he was talking about, Alan Hills.
He is (was?) an electronics tech at NCAR that repaired a failed zap
system that he got cheap. The article was about how to build a light/
cheap climbing bike on a budget. It's simple really, you just go out
and find some failed Zap components and repair it. The guy's a friend
of Zin and also took part in Zin's crank length experiments.
I also recall reading somewhere that there was a basic flaw in the Zap
circuitry. A missing pullup or something that could lead to a failure.
Google Jobst and Zap in Google Groups and I'm sure you'll find it.
Bret
