Electronic shifting system

[[email protected]]

Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
Mektronic used the dérailleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
weight. Both Shimano and Campagnlo's shifting system requires a very
large battery.

The really big issue is if these shifting systems will withstand a
immersion test. This requirement seems a bit extreme, but there are
occasions when I am riding and you have go through a very deep puddle
with no other way to go around.

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
> Mektronic used the d�railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
> weight.

interesting.

> Both Shimano and Campagnlo's shifting system requires a very
> large battery.
>
> The really big issue is if these shifting systems will withstand a
> immersion test. This requirement seems a bit extreme, but there are
> occasions when I am riding and you have go through a very deep puddle
> with no other way to go around.
>

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
>> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
>> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
>> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
>> weight.
>
> interesting.

The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.

The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
use quite a bit of power.

I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
bases.

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
>>> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
>>> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
>>> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
>>> weight.
>> interesting.
>
> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>
> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
> use quite a bit of power.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
> bases.
>
>
i see the advantage as having the potential to be self-adjusting.
whether it actually does this or not is another matter. but if the
theoretical advantages were achieved, and precision shifting achievable
every time, i think it would be a great thing.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
> Howard, Carmine or datakoll.

Oh, you mean weak kneed shifty eyed morons - say like Tony Rominger or Chris
Boardman?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Donald Munro]

jim beam wrote:
> i see the advantage as having the potential to be self-adjusting.
> whether it actually does this or not is another matter. but if the
> theoretical advantages were achieved, and precision shifting achievable
> every time, i think it would be a great thing.

I can't wait to write a virus for the self-adjusting software.

 

[[email protected]]

On Aug 7, 7:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
> >> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
> >> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
> >> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
> >> weight.
>
> > interesting.
>
The only problem I heard of was the radio frequency interference
problem on rare occasions One complaint had was that the solenoid was
not replaceable.


> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>
> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
> use quite a bit of power.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
> bases.

 

[jim beam]

Donald Munro wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> i see the advantage as having the potential to be self-adjusting.
>> whether it actually does this or not is another matter. but if the
>> theoretical advantages were achieved, and precision shifting achievable
>> every time, i think it would be a great thing.
>
> I can't wait to write a virus for the self-adjusting software.
>
do you write viruses for cnc machines?

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com]

On Aug 7, 8:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
> >> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
> >> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
> >> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
> >> weight.
>
> > interesting.
>
> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>
> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
> use quite a bit of power.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
> bases.

Like I asked a shimano clone at Interbike, pointing to a particularly
goofy FD setup, "what's that for?", I ask.."For selling" he answers.

Like disc brakes on road bikes, tubeless, threadless, compact frames,
oversized handlebars, etc....many will say what an improvement these
things all are but mostly they are for 'selling'.

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
> On Aug 7, 8:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
>>>> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
>>>> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
>>>> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
>>>> weight.
>>> interesting.
>> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
>> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>>
>> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
>> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
>> use quite a bit of power.
>>
>> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
>> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
>> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
>> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
>> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
>> bases.
>
> Like I asked a shimano clone at Interbike, pointing to a particularly
> goofy FD setup, "what's that for?", I ask.."For selling" he answers.
>
> Like disc brakes on road bikes, tubeless, threadless, compact frames,
> oversized handlebars, etc....many will say what an improvement these
> things all are but mostly they are for 'selling'.
>

jeepers, who ****** in your cornflakes this morning? get off your high
horse peter. the bike you rode in on this morning, the steel merckx
that you love so much, /that/ is the product of over 100 years of
"selling". it's darwinian. what works sticks around. what doesn't,
gets dropped. watch, learn and enjoy.

 

[[email protected]]

On Aug 8, 5:53 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 8:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > >> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
> > >> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
> > >> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
> > >> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
> > >> weight.
>
> > > interesting.
>
> > The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a strong
> > jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>
> > The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give very
> > precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that they
> > use quite a bit of power.
>
> > I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> > Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting you
> > can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
> > Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a skunk
> > sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge lever
> > bases.
>
> Like I asked a shimano clone at Interbike, pointing to a particularly
> goofy FD setup, "what's that for?", I ask.."For selling" he answers.
>
> Like disc brakes on road bikes, tubeless, threadless, compact frames,
> oversized handlebars, etc....many will say what an improvement these
> things all are but mostly they are for 'selling'.

One potential advantage of tubeless tires is that they supposedly
improve the handling. Some people have said that they handle as well
as tubulars. You are correct that there is a lot of gimmick gee gah
technology in the bike industry today. I used to work in a shop and I
am amazed they are able to sell some of this stuff. Carbon fiber bars
make very little sense when the older 3TTT Superlegerra bars weigh 10
grams more and are far stronger. I have a set and have gone down 5 or
6 hard. The bars did not even bend. I would hate to think how many
times a set of composite bars would survive after just paying $300.
It's also ridiculous that consumers are paying $3000 with only a 3 or
5 year warranty. Disc brakes do make a lot sense because they do
improve the stopping power.

 

[Chris Solar]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> Anyone got any suggestions?

In theory you could put your shift levers/buttons anywhere you want on
the bike, or have multiple sets of shifters, since the shifters aren't
tied to mechanical cables. A TT bike, for example, could have shifters
on both the aero bars and the bullhorns. FWIW.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
>> On Aug 7, 8:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
>>>>> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
>>>>> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
>>>>> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
>>>>> weight.
>>>> interesting.
>>> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a
>>> strong
>>> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>>>
>>> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to give
>>> very
>>> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is that
>>> they
>>> use quite a bit of power.
>>>
>>> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric
>>> shifting.
>>> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic shifting
>>> you
>>> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like Kyle,
>>> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of a
>>> skunk
>>> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge
>>> lever
>>> bases.
>>
>> Like I asked a shimano clone at Interbike, pointing to a particularly
>> goofy FD setup, "what's that for?", I ask.."For selling" he answers.
>>
>> Like disc brakes on road bikes, tubeless, threadless, compact frames,
>> oversized handlebars, etc....many will say what an improvement these
>> things all are but mostly they are for 'selling'.
>>
>
> jeepers, who ****** in your cornflakes this morning? get off your high
> horse peter. the bike you rode in on this morning, the steel merckx that
> you love so much, /that/ is the product of over 100 years of "selling".
> it's darwinian. what works sticks around. what doesn't, gets dropped.
> watch, learn and enjoy.

Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting" ought to
just read the postings and not write them.

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
>>> On Aug 7, 8:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> Campagnolo had a prototype of it's electronic shifting system. The
>>>>>> problem however is that they have chosen to use the solenoid as the
>>>>>> primary driving mechanism. The same goes for Shimano as well. Mavic's
>>>>>> Mektronic used the d?railleur pulley to drive a worm gear thus saving
>>>>>> weight.
>>>>> interesting.
>>>> The Mavic system was handicapped by the mechanism. All it takes is a
>>>> strong
>>>> jolt and the clutches lift and the bike shifts somewhere on it's own.
>>>>
>>>> The other methods probably use stepping motors with leadscrews to
>>>> give very
>>>> precise and reliable position sensitive shifting. The problem is
>>>> that they
>>>> use quite a bit of power.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric
>>>> shifting.
>>>> Anyone got any suggestions? True that if you have electronic
>>>> shifting you
>>>> can shift even if you're a weak kneed shifty eyed moron - say like
>>>> Kyle,
>>>> Howard, Carmine or datakoll. But for anyone with the coordination of
>>>> a skunk
>>>> sprayed squirrel Ergo or STI has no drawbacks aside from those huge
>>>> lever
>>>> bases.
>>>
>>> Like I asked a shimano clone at Interbike, pointing to a particularly
>>> goofy FD setup, "what's that for?", I ask.."For selling" he answers.
>>>
>>> Like disc brakes on road bikes, tubeless, threadless, compact frames,
>>> oversized handlebars, etc....many will say what an improvement these
>>> things all are but mostly they are for 'selling'.
>>>
>>
>> jeepers, who ****** in your cornflakes this morning? get off your
>> high horse peter. the bike you rode in on this morning, the steel
>> merckx that you love so much, /that/ is the product of over 100 years
>> of "selling". it's darwinian. what works sticks around. what
>> doesn't, gets dropped. watch, learn and enjoy.
>
> Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
> ought to just read the postings and not write them.
>
eh? maybe you should re-read?

 

[[email protected]]

On Aug 8, 4:34 pm, Chris Solar <[email protected]> wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
> > Anyone got any suggestions?
>
> In theory you could put your shift levers/buttons anywhere you want on
> the bike, or have multiple sets of shifters, since the shifters aren't
> tied to mechanical cables. A TT bike, for example, could have shifters
> on both the aero bars and the bullhorns. FWIW.

The true advance of cordless electronic shifting will
be to relocate the shifters on a TT bike to their proper
place: the directeur sportif's steering wheel.
Venga, venga!

Sincerely,
J. Bruyneel

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tom Kunich wrote:

> > Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
> > ought to just read the postings and not write them.
> >
> eh? maybe you should re-read?

You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the way, the original
Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it wasn't the mechanism. The
troubles were mostly centered around the electronics and the wiring in particular.
They frequently stopped working due to miniscule amounts of moisture. They did stay
in the gear they were in when it quit or you could stop and manually move it over to
an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches" in 'em, contrary to what TK stated.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[jim beam]

Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>>> Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
>>> ought to just read the postings and not write them.
>>>
>> eh? maybe you should re-read?
>
> You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the way, the original
> Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it wasn't the mechanism. The
> troubles were mostly centered around the electronics and the wiring in particular.
> They frequently stopped working due to miniscule amounts of moisture. They did stay
> in the gear they were in when it quit or you could stop and manually move it over to
> an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches" in 'em, contrary to what TK stated.
>

sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?

 

[A Muzi]

>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
>>>> ought to just read the postings and not write them.

>> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> eh? maybe you should re-read?

> Howard Kveck wrote:
>> You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the
>> way, the original Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it
>> wasn't the mechanism. The troubles were mostly centered around the
>> electronics and the wiring in particular. They frequently stopped
>> working due to miniscule amounts of moisture. They did stay in the
>> gear they were in when it quit or you could stop and manually move it
>> over to an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches" in 'em, contrary
>> to what TK stated.

jim beam wrote:
> sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
> resources for this?

You're kidding, right?
Mavic Mektronic systems were everywhere . . . for a whole season.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >>> Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
> >>> ought to just read the postings and not write them.
> >>>
> >> eh? maybe you should re-read?
> >
> > You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the way,
> > the original Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it wasn't the
> > mechanism. The troubles were mostly centered around the electronics and the
> > wiring in particular. They frequently stopped working due to miniscule amounts
> > of moisture. They did stay in the gear they were in when it quit or you could
> > stop and manually move it over to an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches"
> > in 'em, contrary to what TK stated.
> >
>
> sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
> resources for this?

I don't know of any, sorry.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[jim beam]

A Muzi wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
>>>>> ought to just read the postings and not write them.
>
>>> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> eh? maybe you should re-read?
>
>> Howard Kveck wrote:
>>> You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the
>>> way, the original Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but
>>> it wasn't the mechanism. The troubles were mostly centered around the
>>> electronics and the wiring in particular. They frequently stopped
>>> working due to miniscule amounts of moisture. They did stay in the
>>> gear they were in when it quit or you could stop and manually move it
>>> over to an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches" in 'em, contrary
>>> to what TK stated.
>
> jim beam wrote:
>> sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
>> resources for this?
>
> You're kidding, right?
> Mavic Mektronic systems were everywhere . . . for a whole season.

i saw them on special on cambriabike.com once. but never seen one in
the flesh and certainly no tech info.

but don't you think this odd? i mean, mavic's just a marketing company,
right? pre-built wheels are meritless and sales are just a function of
marketing, so mavic's electronic shifting should have responded to the
same treatment...