Electronic Shifting

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by [email protected], Mar 9, 2006.



  1. [email protected] wrote:
    > It just won't die. It ought to.
    >
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09


    Wireless electronic shifting is a necessary step, a logical
    evolution from radios and earpieces. Fogies young and old
    complain about the radios and the DS yammering in the
    riders' ears, but wait until the DS is actually shifting the
    riders' bikes for them. If Bjarne decides Ivan needs to
    attack, he presses a button and pow, Ivan's got to step
    it up if he wants to keep turning over the pedals. It can
    work in reverse too - I'm sure there have been times
    where Ballerini wished he could downshift some
    freelancing member of the Azzuri.

    You might say that this is another corporatist step in
    ruining the romance of the sport and the element of
    human judgement, but don't get all Old Europe on me
    all of a sudden. You bought this technological
    revolution when you threw away your last Sachs freewheel.

    Ben
    has disassembled a Sachs freewheel, while riding
     
  2. Donald Munro

    Donald Munro Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Wireless electronic shifting is a necessary step, a logical
    > evolution from radios and earpieces. Fogies young and old
    > complain about the radios and the DS yammering in the
    > riders' ears, but wait until the DS is actually shifting the
    > riders' bikes for them. If Bjarne decides Ivan needs to
    > attack, he presses a button and pow, Ivan's got to step
    > it up if he wants to keep turning over the pedals. It can
    > work in reverse too - I'm sure there have been times
    > where Ballerini wished he could downshift some
    > freelancing member of the Azzuri.


    I think you should stop playing Cycling Manager 4 on your PC and go ride
    your bike.
     
  3. Brian S

    Brian S Guest

  4. > I just don't see any possible benefit to electronic shifting. Just
    > more complexity. Maybe I'm missing something. Is there any possible
    > benefit?
    >
    > R


    Funny, I remember saying the same thing about index shifting when it
    came out!
     
  5. Brian S

    Brian S Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >> I just don't see any possible benefit to electronic shifting. Just
    >> more complexity. Maybe I'm missing something. Is there any possible
    >> benefit?
    >>
    >> R

    >
    > Funny, I remember saying the same thing about index shifting when it
    > came out!
    >


    I can see it as a benefit to someone with deformed hands(from an
    accident or from a birth defect) that don't have much hand strength or
    fine motor control, but really, how can this help most of us out? It
    sounds like someones novel idea to make us upgrade again and yet another
    thing that can go wrong.

    Does anyone have any idea what the pros are for having electronic
    shifting? A lot of new ideas are brushed aside because of tradition or a
    lack of wanting to try new things, but this one really eludes me.
     
  6. RicodJour

    RicodJour Guest

    Brian S wrote:
    >
    > I can see it as a benefit to someone with deformed hands(from an
    > accident or from a birth defect) that don't have much hand strength or
    > fine motor control, but really, how can this help most of us out? It
    > sounds like someones novel idea to make us upgrade again and yet another
    > thing that can go wrong.


    Handicapped shifting....hoo boy. Please don't let that get out. Next
    thing you know some shit head politico looking to make a name for
    himself will try to get it signed into law for handicap access.

    > Does anyone have any idea what the pros are for having electronic
    > shifting? A lot of new ideas are brushed aside because of tradition or a
    > lack of wanting to try new things, but this one really eludes me.


    I think we should go back to the old ways where the hired guy ran next
    to the bike and shifted for them. Much more genteel.

    R
     
  7. On 10 Mar 2006 09:17:31 -0800, "RicodJour" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I just don't see any possible
    > benefit to electronic shifting.


    The rider could have multiple shift buttons, enabling shifting with
    less hand movement, or even no hand movement, from the tops, hoods,
    drops, tt bars, etc.

    JT


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  8. RicodJour

    RicodJour Guest

    John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    > On 10 Mar 2006 09:17:31 -0800, "RicodJour" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >I just don't see any possible
    > > benefit to electronic shifting.

    >
    > The rider could have multiple shift buttons, enabling shifting with
    > less hand movement, or even no hand movement, from the tops, hoods,
    > drops, tt bars, etc.


    Hmmm. Right. That could be useful, I suppose. Do you think that's
    what's driving the development or that they're looking for an automatic
    transmission?

    R
     
  9. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On 10 Mar 2006 18:11:41 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >> I just don't see any possible benefit to electronic shifting. Just
    >> more complexity. Maybe I'm missing something. Is there any possible
    >> benefit?
    >>
    >> R

    >
    >Funny, I remember saying the same thing about index shifting when it
    >came out!


    So did I. The thing was, we were both right. The only good indexed shifting did
    was make Ergo and STI possible. It was one of those evolutionary steps that
    leave people going "Huh?"

    In the end it was a useful step. The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    lead to that makes any sense? Automatic shifting? No thanks.

    I'm open to ideas, I just don't see 'em from here.

    Ron
     
  10. On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:43:24 GMT, RonSonic <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    >lead to that makes any sense?


    Thank about it a little harder. For racing, electronic shifting
    offers the possiblity of easily having multiple controls for the same
    shifter at different places on the bars. That can be a big advantage.
    In fact, that's why Chris Boardman used Mavic electronic shifting
    often on this TT bikes.

    JT

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  11. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:43:24 GMT, RonSonic <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    > >lead to that makes any sense?

    >
    > Thank about it a little harder. For racing, electronic shifting
    > offers the possiblity of easily having multiple controls for the same
    > shifter at different places on the bars. That can be a big advantage.
    > In fact, that's why Chris Boardman used Mavic electronic shifting
    > often on this TT bikes.
    >
    > JT


    The multiple points to shift from idea is a good one, but I think the main
    reason for Boardman to use it was because he could set it up so he wouldn't have
    to leave his aero postion at all to shift. Another aspect of electronic shifting
    is the ability to pre-select a shift (a gear or two) while coasting in a turn so
    it shifts as soon as you start to apply power.

    I think the electronic shifter concept is ok for the rear, but I don't see
    any reason to bother with it for the front. But then I still use a downtube
    shifter for the front. I never liked the feel of STI in the front.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    Grandma Smith said a curious thing
    Boys must whistle, girls must sing

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  12. Brian S

    Brian S Guest

    RonSonic wrote:
    > On 10 Mar 2006 18:11:41 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > In the end it was a useful step. The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    > lead to that makes any sense? Automatic shifting? No thanks.


    > Ron


    http://www.niknaks.com/autobike.htm

    automatic shifting has been around for a little while actually.
     
  13. Stu Fleming

    Stu Fleming Guest

    John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

    > In fact, that's why Chris Boardman used Mavic electronic shifting
    > often on this TT bikes.


    Alex Zuelle was another early adopter.
    The team mechanics may have been behind the decision since the early
    Ergo and STI levers were fragile under heavy crash load...
     
  14. RicodJour

    RicodJour Guest

    Brian S wrote:
    > RonSonic wrote:
    > > On 10 Mar 2006 18:11:41 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > > In the end it was a useful step. The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    > > lead to that makes any sense? Automatic shifting? No thanks.

    >
    > > Ron

    >
    > http://www.niknaks.com/autobike.htm
    >
    > automatic shifting has been around for a little while actually.


    Electronic and automatic are not synonymous.

    R
     
  15. Dan Spisak

    Dan Spisak Guest

    Good point, John. Having the ability to place controls in an optimum location is
    tremendous. This will greatly reduce RSIs and carpel tunnel problems. Both of my hands
    would become almost numb after a long ride with either STI or Ergo no matter how I
    positioned the levers.

    John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:43:24 GMT, RonSonic <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>The electronic thing.... I dunno, what could it
    >>lead to that makes any sense?

    >
    >
    > Thank about it a little harder. For racing, electronic shifting
    > offers the possiblity of easily having multiple controls for the same
    > shifter at different places on the bars. That can be a big advantage.
    > In fact, that's why Chris Boardman used Mavic electronic shifting
    > often on this TT bikes.
    >
    > JT
    >
    > ****************************
    > Remove "remove" to reply
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  16. Brian S

    Brian S Guest

    Dan Spisak wrote:
    > Good point, John. Having the ability to place controls in an optimum
    > location is tremendous. This will greatly reduce RSIs and carpel tunnel
    > problems. Both of my hands would become almost numb after a long ride
    > with either STI or Ergo no matter how I positioned the levers.
    >


    So people doing RAAM and hour records (or other long distance / aero
    races), and people with physical difficulties could find this very
    usefull. That's a pretty small market. There must be a reason beyond
    that that they're thinking of to pursue this technology. Are they just
    trying to feed the techno geeks in us some goodies?

    I know I don't feel the need for more places to be able to shift. There
    must be something more to this. I remember Campy had a hard time keeping
    the weight down and making the front derailler shift properly under load
    for a while. I imagine that the other guys (Mavic and Shimano) had
    similar problems. Guess we'll find out in a few years as it matures to
    see what the long term idea behind this is.
     
  17. Donald Munro

    Donald Munro Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >> > Wireless electronic shifting is a necessary step, a logical
    >> > evolution from radios and earpieces. Fogies young and old
    >> > complain about the radios and the DS yammering in the
    >> > riders' ears, but wait until the DS is actually shifting the
    >> > riders' bikes for them. If Bjarne decides Ivan needs to
    >> > attack, he presses a button and pow, Ivan's got to step
    >> > it up if he wants to keep turning over the pedals. It can
    >> > work in reverse too - I'm sure there have been times
    >> > where Ballerini wished he could downshift some
    >> > freelancing member of the Azzuri.


    Donald Munro wrote:
    >> I think you should stop playing Cycling Manager 4 on your PC and go ride
    >> your bike.


    RicodJour wrote:
    > That's not funny. He has Pro Cycling Manager 5. ;)


    I hope they've improved it substantially over version 4 then. I never
    could see how any self respecting team manager could get by without being
    able to design a doping program for his riders. In fact I think they could
    incoparate a Masters of Orion style technology tree allowing the manager
    to invest in research programs on new drugs perhaps culiminating in a gene
    doping program.
     
  18. On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:11:32 -0500, Brian S <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >So people doing RAAM and hour records (or other long distance / aero
    >races), and people with physical difficulties could find this very
    >usefull. That's a pretty small market. There must be a reason beyond
    >that that they're thinking of to pursue this technology. Are they just
    >trying to feed the techno geeks in us some goodies?


    >
    >I know I don't feel the need for more places to be able to shift.


    Do you actually race bikes? Have you raced an intense and technical
    criterium? Have you ever been suffering badly while on a long climb
    with the grade constantly shifting?

    RAAM? This is a bike racing group. And there is no need for shifting
    in the hour record.

    JT



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  19. Brian S

    Brian S Guest

    John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:11:32 -0500, Brian S <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> So people doing RAAM and hour records (or other long distance / aero
    >> races), and people with physical difficulties could find this very
    >> usefull. That's a pretty small market. There must be a reason beyond
    >> that that they're thinking of to pursue this technology. Are they just
    >> trying to feed the techno geeks in us some goodies?

    >
    >> I know I don't feel the need for more places to be able to shift.

    >
    > Do you actually race bikes? Have you raced an intense and technical
    > criterium? Have you ever been suffering badly while on a long climb
    > with the grade constantly shifting?
    >


    Yes, I do race periodically (and ride with some pretty talented people),
    given time restraints to training. I've never felt I needed multiple
    places to shift. When I'm riding hard and I'm betting most people do,
    they're hands are either in the drops or hoods. From there shifting is
    pretty easy. So why then would I need another place to be able to shift
    from unless your in a strange position and even then you'd probably be
    using some kind of TT shifting position anyway.

    The only time I'm moving my hands around a lot is when I'm riding slow
    for a long, time for comfort, shifting isn't a priority then.

    > RAAM? This is a bike racing group. And there is no need for shifting
    > in the hour record.
    >
    > JT
    >


    I mentioned those two in reference to riding in odd positions for longer
    periods of time than most people do.

    Like I said earlier, I don't see the benefit of this technology at this
    time given it's potential drawbacks (battery life, potential electrical
    interference blocking shifting, like current cars - more things that can
    go wrong vs simple mechanical devices, potential higher cost).

    Whatever, this can go into a barcon vs sti/ergo shifter debate, which I
    don't care to get into. I'll just wait and see what happens when the
    stuff comes out.
     
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