Elevated potassium levels - Help

Andrew B. Chung said:

It seems you would attempt to stifle Jason with your MD training.

I would certainly like to stifle Jason from giving out potentially
dangerous medical advice. The same goes for others in this group who
post such advice.

Quoted message said:

If you had more integrity, you would publicly acknowledge that
hyperkalemia is an immediately lifethreatening condition whereas neither
moderate renal insufficiency nor type 4 renal tubular acidosis (RTA) can
kill someone outright.

Doctors and patients frequently tolerate mild degrees of hyperkalemia to
allow for the continued renal protection of being on an ACE inhibitor.
Ending up on dialysis is not all that pleasant and many people would
accept some slight increased risk of death for a significant decrease in
the risk of dialysis.

What I'll publicly acknowledge is that I do not have adequate
information based on the original posting to be providing medical
advice. There are certainly situations in which I would consider keeping
someone on an ACE inhibitor in the face of hyperkalemia to be extremely
dangerous and extremely foolish. But I don't know enough to know whether
this was one of those situations. Why are you so sure it was?

--
David Rind
[email hidden]

x-no-archive: yes

David Rind said:

I would certainly like to stifle Jason from giving out potentially
dangerous medical advice. The same goes for others in this group who
post such advice.

I'd like to stifle all the Chun*g cross posts, while we're at it. Care
to trim some of those headers?

You can't stifle anyone on usenet, generally, so you may as well give up
trying. All you can do, really, is to provide more accurate, reliable
information and assume the readers are discerning enough to make the
right call. :-/

Just sayinzall.

Susan

Neryl Chyphes said:

"David Rind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...
Giving simple answers like "throw the ACE inhibitor in the trash" in the
face of limited information and limited knowledge is just silly.

You suggest advice from ABC PhD/MD is silly?

Goes without saying.

I note you omitted comments on his theology.

It should be noted that David has difficulties with the truth.

You will be in my prayers, dear Neryl whom I love in Jesus' most awesome
and most holy name.

"My LORD **and** my GOD!" -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon
seeing the risen Jesus Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

In truth, I most assuredly know the LORD to be kind, just and right.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal (Rev.
6:12), cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread
here during the next on-line chat(05/11/06) from 5 to 6 pm EST, LORD
willing:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/zlaml

David Rind said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

It seems you would attempt to stifle Jason with your MD training.

I would certainly like to stifle Jason from giving out potentially
dangerous medical advice. The same goes for others in this group who
post such advice.

Quoted message said:

If you had more integrity, you would publicly acknowledge that
hyperkalemia is an immediately lifethreatening condition whereas neither
moderate renal insufficiency nor type 4 renal tubular acidosis (RTA) can
kill someone outright.

Doctors and patients frequently tolerate mild degrees of hyperkalemia to
allow for the continued renal protection of being on an ACE inhibitor.
Ending up on dialysis is not all that pleasant and many people would
accept some slight increased risk of death for a significant decrease in
the risk of dialysis.

What I'll publicly acknowledge is that I do not have adequate
information based on the original posting to be providing medical
advice. There are certainly situations in which I would consider keeping
someone on an ACE inhibitor in the face of hyperkalemia to be extremely
dangerous and extremely foolish. But I don't know enough to know whether
this was one of those situations. Why are you so sure it was?

I have seen enough SCDs from iatrogenic hyperkalemia to know the wisdom
of erring on the side of caution.

Still praying for you, dear David whom I love in Jesus' most precious
and holy name.

"My LORD **and** my GOD!" -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon
seeing the risen Jesus Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

In truth, I most assuredly know the LORD to be kind, just and right.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal (Rev.
6:12), cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread
here during the next on-line chat(05/11/06) from 5 to 6 pm EST, LORD
willing:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/zlaml

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

Well, just as long as neither you nor conventional medicine had
anything to do with it. 🙁

Thankfully :-)

"My LORD **and** my GOD!" -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon
seeing the risen Jesus Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

In truth, I most assuredly know the LORD to be kind, just and right.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal (Rev.
6:12), cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread
here during the next on-line chat(05/11/06) from 5 to 6 pm EST, LORD
willing:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/zlaml

Susan <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

David Rind said:

I would certainly like to stifle Jason from giving out potentially
dangerous medical advice. The same goes for others in this group who
post such advice.

I'd like to stifle all the Chun*g cross posts, while we're at it. Care
to trim some of those headers?

You can't stifle anyone on usenet, generally, so you may as well give up
trying. All you can do, really, is to provide more accurate, reliable
information and assume the readers are discerning enough to make the
right call. :-/

Just sayinzall.

Susan

As a Usenet veteran of many, many years, I can say Susan is absolutely
right. The one thing everyone is absolutely powerless to do is to change
whether anyone else posts or what they say. And trying to do so creates more
disruption than the original posters do.

Kill filters are your friend.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

Andrew B. Chung said:

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

Well, just as long as neither you nor conventional medicine had
anything to do with it. 🙁

Thankfully :-)

My blood pressure has gone up, somewhat.

It is now around 100/64.

I tend to believe that I have something to do with it, namely diet and
exercise. Actually, it is not very hard to achieve at all. And, I
certainly am not a runner or a jogger.

No way would I take prescription medication.

Just thought that you might want to get real.

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
> the LORD has reshaped me:

Well, just as long as neither you nor conventional medicine had
anything to do with it. 🙁

Thankfully :-)

My blood pressure has gone up, somewhat.

It is now around 100/64.

I tend to believe that I have something to do with it, namely diet and
exercise. Actually, it is not very hard to achieve at all. And, I
certainly am not a runner or a jogger.

No way would I take prescription medication.

That would be your choice. Certainly, there is no indication for
anti-hypertensive medications in your case.

Quoted message said:

Just thought that you might want to get real.

The truth is real.

Still praying for you, dear John whom I love in Jesus' most awesome and
most holy name.

"My LORD **and** my GOD!" -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon
seeing the risen Jesus Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

In truth, I most assuredly know the LORD to be kind, just and right.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal (Rev.
6:12), cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread
here during the next on-line chat(05/11/06) from 5 to 6 pm EST, LORD
willing:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/zlaml

Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

My blood pressure has gone up, somewhat.

It is now around 100/64.

I tend to believe that I have something to do with it, namely diet and
exercise. Actually, it is not very hard to achieve at all. And, I
certainly am not a runner or a jogger.

No way would I take prescription medication.

That would be your choice. Certainly, there is no indication for
anti-hypertensive medications in your case.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

All prescription medication, at best, should be taken on a temporary
basis.

The Natural Hygiene Movement nailed the primary problem of conventional
medicine back during the middle of the 19th century. It is truer
today, than it was back then.

ADR deaths are real.

Just thought that the fools might want to wake up before their
physician kills them. Eating a healthy diet really isn't all that bad.

Beware of people addicted to butter!!!

listener said:

Quoted message said:

The physician knows that his patient has elevated potassium levels
which is being caused by the particular ace-inhibitor that he has
prescribed.

So, why shouldn't this physician be sued for malpractice and have his
license to practice medicine taken away from him?

Or, are physicians simply in the business of killing their patients
with ADRs?

If it were me, I'd sue him for female practice.

That would work only if the Doc was a female. 🙁

Just thought that you might want to know.

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

My blood pressure has gone up, somewhat.

It is now around 100/64.

I tend to believe that I have something to do with it, namely diet and
exercise. Actually, it is not very hard to achieve at all. And, I
certainly am not a runner or a jogger.

No way would I take prescription medication.

That would be your choice. Certainly, there is no indication for
anti-hypertensive medications in your case.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

All prescription medication, at best, should be taken on a temporary
basis.

That would be ideal and is possible through the healing power of the
Holy Spirit.

"My LORD **and** my GOD!" -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon
seeing the risen Jesus Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

In truth, I most assuredly know the LORD to be kind, just and right.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal (Rev.
6:12), cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread
here during the next on-line chat(05/11/06) from 5 to 6 pm EST, LORD
willing:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/zlaml

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

My blood pressure has gone up, somewhat.

It is now around 100/64.

I tend to believe that I have something to do with it, namely diet and
exercise. Actually, it is not very hard to achieve at all. And, I
certainly am not a runner or a jogger.

No way would I take prescription medication.

That would be your choice. Certainly, there is no indication for
anti-hypertensive medications in your case.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

All prescription medication, at best, should be taken on a temporary
basis.

Hear that, all you type 1 diabetics? John doesn't want you taking
your insulin more than temporarily.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

David Wright said:

Hear that, all you type 1 diabetics? John doesn't want you taking
your insulin more than temporarily.

If that is the best that you can do, don't quite your day job.

Do you comprehend ADR as being a cause of death, let alone a major
cause of death in the USA, for the elderly?

Now perhaps you might comprehend, that all High Blood Pressure
medication should be taken on a temporary basis, until you get it under
control by eating a proper diet, exercising, deep breath or whatever?

Yeah, ... right, sure: Make sure I got all my 'T's crossed; but let
1,000's of patients die each year from ADRs.

ADR stands for Adverse Drug Reactions.

The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first
place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Boy are you a Slime Bucket!!!

Boy are YOU a moron!!!

Just thought that you might want to know.

David Wright said:

Hear that, all you type 1 diabetics? John doesn't want you taking
your insulin more than temporarily.

If that is the best that you can do, don't quit your day job.

Do you comprehend ADR as being a cause of death, let alone a major
cause of death in the USA, for the elderly?

Now perhaps you might comprehend, that all High Blood Pressure
medication should be taken on a temporary basis, until you get it under
control by eating a proper diet, exercising, deep breath or whatever?

Yeah, ... right, sure: Make sure I got all my 'T's crossed; but let
1,000's of patients die each year from ADRs.

ADR stands for Adverse Drug Reactions.

The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first
place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Boy are you a Slime Bucket!!!

Boy are YOU a moron!!!

Just thought that you might want to know.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Quoted message said:

Mr Unnatural-Acts said:

All prescription medication, at best, should be taken on a
temporary basis.

Quoted message said:

David Wright said:

Hear that, all you type 1 diabetics? John doesn't want you taking
your insulin more than temporarily.

If that is the best that you can do, don't quite your day job.

If your clumsy editing job is the best that you can do, and I know
that it is, don't quit yours, assuming you have one (denture adhesive
tester or some such, I suppose). I've restored the text you snipped
out, since you're clearly trying to run away from it.

Quoted message said:

Do you comprehend ADR as being a cause of death, let alone a major
cause of death in the USA, for the elderly?

Sure. Which has nothing to do with the fact that some prescription
medications do need to be taken continually.

Quoted message said:

Now perhaps you might comprehend, that all High Blood Pressure
medication should be taken on a temporary basis, until you get it under
control by eating a proper diet, exercising, deep breath or whatever?

Oh, *high blood pressure* medication. Too bad you were too doltish to
put in this qualification the first time around.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, ... right, sure: Make sure I got all my 'T's crossed; but let
1,000's of patients die each year from ADRs.

ADR stands for Adverse Drug Reactions.

So it does.

Quoted message said:

The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Sure. It's so simple that it's wrong.

Just thought you might want to know.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

David Wright said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Quoted message said:

The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Sure. It's so simple that it's wrong.

Just thought you might want to know.

Of course it's wrong! Any good student the 19th-century knows that
*electricity* cures everything. 😉

In the 19th-century, doctors did sometimes prescribe toxic
substances--like arsenic and strychnine--to their patients. And
unlicensed quacks promoted tonics containing turpentine and alcohol.
However, that was over 100 years ago. Medical science has advanced
since then, as has our understanding of chemistry, physiology and
microbiology. Today, all prescription pharmaceuticals (in the US, and
many other developed countries) are subject to lengthy pre-clinical and
clinical trials to *try* to ensure both safety and efficacy before
they're made available to the public.

If you want to argue that the process isn't perfect, you'd be correct.
Yes, many medications have unpleasant side-effects, and yes, sometimes
the side-effects are unexpectedly toxic or deadly. OTOH, advances in
pharmacology have saved many lives, and made many others significantly
more bearable.

If someone who is really sick followed the "natural hygiene" movement
in search of cure, the most likely outcome would be a quicker, more
painful death. What a wonderful recommendation for your side.

In article <[email hidden]>,
"marcia" <[email hidden]> wrote:

David Wright said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Quoted message said:

The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Sure. It's so simple that it's wrong.

Just thought you might want to know.

Of course it's wrong! Any good student the 19th-century knows that
*electricity* cures everything. 😉

In the 19th-century, doctors did sometimes prescribe toxic
substances--like arsenic and strychnine--to their patients. And
unlicensed quacks promoted tonics containing turpentine and alcohol.
However, that was over 100 years ago. Medical science has advanced
since then, as has our understanding of chemistry, physiology and
microbiology. Today, all prescription pharmaceuticals (in the US, and
many other developed countries) are subject to lengthy pre-clinical and
clinical trials to *try* to ensure both safety and efficacy before
they're made available to the public.

If you want to argue that the process isn't perfect, you'd be correct.
Yes, many medications have unpleasant side-effects, and yes, sometimes
the side-effects are unexpectedly toxic or deadly. OTOH, advances in
pharmacology have saved many lives, and made many others significantly
more bearable.

If someone who is really sick followed the "natural hygiene" movement
in search of cure, the most likely outcome would be a quicker, more
painful death. What a wonderful recommendation for your side.

I have a question for you:
Do you believe that someone that has high blood pressure should try to
reduce the blood pressure by changing their diet and exercising on
a regular schedule before taking medication?
Jason

Jacob Johnson said:

I have a question for you:
Do you believe that someone that has high blood pressure should try to
reduce the blood pressure by changing their diet and exercising on
a regular schedule before taking medication?
Jason

I believe a person should consult his or her doctor for the answer that
question. Since I am NOT a doctor (and you're not either), I can't give
a definitive answer to that question. But I suspect a wise course of
action would be to change the diet and start an exercise program WHILE
taking antihypertensives. When--or if--the person successfully changes
his/her lifestyle *and the doctor thinks he/she may be able to maintain
normal blood pressure without medication,* then they would likely be
justified in discontinuing the medication while monitoring the
situation.

I do know this: not everyone who has high blood pressure is overweight,
out of shape, or eats an unhealthy diet. Some people have high blood
pressure for other reasons (which I can't elaborate). Under those
conditions, changing diet and exercising more would probably not be an
effective treatment.

Jacob Johnson said:

Do you believe that someone that has high blood pressure should try to
reduce the blood pressure by changing their diet and exercising on
a regular schedule before taking medication?

Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?

Can you say temporary?

Don't know the definition of temporary? It is in the dictionary.

My original statements on the above are perfectly valid. Why don't you
try reading for once?

Mr. Natural-Health said:

Jacob Johnson said:

Do you believe that someone that has high blood pressure should try to
reduce the blood pressure by changing their diet and exercising on
a regular schedule before taking medication?

Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?

Can you say temporary?

Don't know the definition of temporary? It is in the dictionary.

My original statements on the above are perfectly valid. Why don't you
try reading for once?

I think he was responding to my post (since that's what was quoted). I
think we agree the best case scenario would be for antihypertensives to
be a *temporary* solution, assuming the person was able to lose weight
and become more fit, *and* that had a positive impact on his blood
pressure.

But again, I think that decision should be made in consultation with a
doctor. Most people aren't successful at making such dramatic lifestyle
changes or at sticking with them once initiated, and meanwhile, the
unmedicated are more likely to stroke out or suffer other negative
consequences of their hypertension.

You would have more credibility if you didn't communicate in insults.