Elliptical oil drops

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Jobst Brandt, Sep 9, 2003.

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  1. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical oil
    ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin elliptical
    rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the long axis in
    line with traffic.

    There WILL be a quiz!

    Where do you find them and how are they made?

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
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  2. Phil Brown

    Phil Brown Guest

    Sounds like someone's spoofing Jobst because he would surely know about Thetic rings. Phil Brown
     
  3. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    > oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    > elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the
    > long axis in line with traffic.
    >
    > There WILL be a quiz!
    >
    > Where do you find them and how are they made?
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]

    They're made by comets. Hyperbolic rings are rarer.
    --
    Ron Hardin [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  4. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 10 Sep 2003 00:30:59 GMT, Phil Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Sounds like someone's spoofing Jobst because he would surely know about Thetic rings.

    The headers match. Unless somebody gained access to Jobst's computer, it was Jobst.

    Google doesn't know anything about Thetic rings. What are they, and how do they end up on the road?

    > Phil Brown
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  5. Nick Payne

    Nick Payne Guest

    Elliptical chainrings. From the 1930s, I believe. If you can find a copy of Delong, he mentions
    them there.

    Nick

    "Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]...
    >
    > Google doesn't know anything about Thetic rings. What are they, and how do they end up on
    > the road?
     
  6. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    "Nick Payne" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Elliptical chainrings. From the 1930s, I believe. If you can find a copy of Delong, he mentions
    > them there.

    Eliptical chainrings were certainly around in the 1970s, because a friend of mine who did pursuit
    (fixed wheel) racing had one. 'Biopace' rings (which I liked hugely, and still have on my rigid hill
    bike) were around in the 1980s, and while not exactly elliptical, had the same basic idea. I have no
    information wrt elliptical oil spots.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    'Victories are not solutions.' ;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland
    1/2/95 ;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much
     
  7. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:20:53 GMT, [email protected] may have said:

    >I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical oil
    >ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the
    >long axis in line with traffic.
    >
    >There WILL be a quiz!
    >
    >Where do you find them and how are they made?

    Sounds like an oil or grease spot got elongated by being run over by a tire. An impact by an oil
    drop, no matter what it's approach angle, will always produce a circular spot, but as a wheel rolls
    across a spot, anything on the surface will tend to get rolled out.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
  8. [email protected] wrote:
    > I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    > oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    > elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the
    > long axis in line with traffic.
    >
    > There WILL be a quiz!
    >
    > Where do you find them and how are they made?

    You have piqued my interest - I will keep my eyes open for them.

    --
    R.

    <> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble." <>
    [email protected]
     
  9. In <[email protected]>, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> opined:

    > Google doesn't know anything about Thetic rings. What are they, and how do they end up on
    > the road?

    Google groups does, and Phil was kidding.

    Jobst, was there a Nobel prize associated with the answer?

    --
    Dave Salovesh [email protected]
     
  10. John Dacey

    John Dacey Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:20:53 GMT, jobst (the face that lunched a thousand cranks) brandt wrote:

    >I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical oil
    >ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the
    >long axis in line with traffic.
    >
    >There WILL be a quiz!
    >
    >Where do you find them and how are they made?

    Male Answer Syndrome has its finest hour:

    They'd be found around intersections with a stop light or sign. Vehicles accelerating away from the
    stop may sometimes dribble a series of oil drops onto the roadway. An inclined road probably
    enhances the incidence of oil spills. Drops that are close enough together will merge as the oil
    disperses and is absorbed into the road surface. Those linearly conjoined drops then behave as one
    (trying to spread out in a circle), which causes it to assume an elliptical shape.

    -------------------------------
    John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
    equipment: eighth year online. http://www.businesscycles.com
    -------------------------------
     
  11. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:18:58 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> may have said:

    >On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:20:53 GMT, [email protected] may have said:
    >
    >>I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    >>oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >>elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long, the
    >>long axis in line with traffic.
    >>
    >>There WILL be a quiz!
    >>
    >>Where do you find them and how are they made?
    >
    >Sounds like an oil or grease spot got elongated by being run over by a tire. An impact by an oil
    >drop, no matter what it's approach angle, will always produce a circular spot, but as a wheel rolls
    >across a spot, anything on the surface will tend to get rolled out.

    If it's an open ring, I'd further postulate that the edges accumulated contaminants from the surface
    which formed a more stable and durable conglomerate, and the center's liquids then got washed away
    or tracked away. I've noticed that when certain things get tracked around in the house, after the
    first few steps, the image that's being left is a ring instead of a spot. (And since the SO is
    housekeeping-impaired, I'm more often the one who gets to clean it up.) (Yes, with power tools.)

    This is just a SWAG.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
  12. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:24:47 GMT, Dave Salovesh <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Google doesn't know anything about Thetic rings.

    > Google groups does, and Phil was kidding.

    I searched groups.google.com with "thetic rings" and only got this thread.

    If I do it without the quotes, I get loads of threads not related to this -- mostly, thetic being
    part of the word 'pathethic'.

    Care to provide a URL?

    My head will explode, littering the newsgroup with brains and blood if nobody tells me what thetic
    rings are... ;)

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  13. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:45:09 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
    > My head will explode, littering the newsgroup with brains and blood if nobody tells me what thetic
    > rings are... ;)

    Nevermind. I re-read earlier messages in this thread and found that somebody already told me what
    they are, I just didn't understand.

    They are oval chainrings sold under the Thetic name a long time ago.

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  14. Ray Heindl

    Ray Heindl Guest

    Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sounds like an oil or grease spot got elongated by being run over by a tire. An impact by an oil
    > drop, no matter what it's approach angle, will always produce a circular spot,

    Why is that? I just tried this in my basement and had no trouble making elongated spots.

    > but as a wheel rolls across a spot, anything on the surface will tend to get rolled out.

    Even the barrel....

    --
    Ray Heindl (remove the X to reply)
     
  15. Ray Heindl

    Ray Heindl Guest

    Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

    > If it's an open ring, I'd further postulate that the edges accumulated contaminants from the
    > surface which formed a more stable and durable conglomerate, and the center's liquids then got
    > washed away or tracked away. I've noticed that when certain things get tracked around in the
    > house, after the first few steps, the image that's being left is a ring instead of a spot. (And
    > since the SO is housekeeping-impaired, I'm more often the one who gets to clean it up.) (Yes, with
    > power tools.)
    >
    > This is just a SWAG.

    Maybe it's related to the rings left when spilled coffee evaporates. Surface tension pulls the
    suspended particles to the edge of the spot as it evaporates, so most of the particles end up
    at the edge.

    --
    Ray Heindl (remove the X to reply)
     
  16. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Werehatrack who? writes:

    >> I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    >> oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >> elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long,
    >> the long axis in line with traffic.

    >> There WILL be a quiz!

    >> Where do you find them and how are they made?

    > Sounds like an oil or grease spot got elongated by being run over by a tire. An impact by an oil
    > drop, no matter what it's approach angle, will always produce a circular spot, but as a wheel
    > rolls across a spot, anything on the surface will tend to get rolled out.

    These are "RINGS" not solid spots. However your description fits chewing gum, also a substance that
    few bicyclists see. Oil on the spots on a road do not get stretched by passing tires.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  17. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Dave Salovesh writes:

    >> Google doesn't know anything about Thetic rings. What are they, and how do they end up on
    >> the road?

    > Google groups does, and Phil was kidding.

    > Jobst, was there a Nobel prize associated with the answer?

    There might have been had someone analyzed this years ago, however the mechanism for them was
    understood before there were cars.

    Oops, that was a clue, but then you knew that already.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  18. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    John Dacey writes:

    >> I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    >> oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >> elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long,
    >> the long axis in line with traffic.

    >> There WILL be a quiz!

    >> Where do you find them and how are they made?

    > Male Answer Syndrome has its finest hour:

    > They'd be found around intersections with a stop light or sign. Vehicles accelerating away from
    > the stop may sometimes dribble a series of oil drops onto the roadway. An inclined road probably
    > enhances the incidence of oil spills. Drops that are close enough together will merge as the oil
    > disperses and is absorbed into the road surface. Those linearly conjoined drops then behave as one
    > (trying to spread out in a circle), which causes it to assume an elliptical shape.

    I'm glad you prefaced that with a suitable comment. Yes that is a wonderful answer... but no
    cigar. Bong.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  19. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:46:55 GMT, [email protected] may have said:

    >Werehatrack who? writes:
    >
    >>> I've interviewed bicyclists far and wide and never found anyone who has ever seen an elliptical
    >>> oil ring on the road, much less someone who had any idea of how they get there. They are thin
    >>> elliptical rings with a major to minor diameter of about pi:1 and between 20mm and 200mm long,
    >>> the long axis in line with traffic.
    >
    >>> There WILL be a quiz!
    >
    >>> Where do you find them and how are they made?
    >
    >> Sounds like an oil or grease spot got elongated by being run over by a tire. An impact by an oil
    >> drop, no matter what it's approach angle, will always produce a circular spot, but as a wheel
    >> rolls across a spot, anything on the surface will tend to get rolled out.
    >
    >These are "RINGS" not solid spots. However your description fits chewing gum, also a substance that
    >few bicyclists see. Oil on the spots on a road do not get stretched by passing tires.

    Grease does.

    Now that I think about it, I've seen elliptical oil spots on the road around here.

    For rings, though, I still lean towards an edge effect followed by a washout of the still-liquid
    center. Or deposition of the sploosh from hydraulically ejected substrate through a hole in the
    paving during a rain, as the vehicle tires spread it down from the hole.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
  20. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:20:53 GMT, [email protected] may have said:

    >Where do you find them and how are they made?

    One more guess, and I'm giving up.

    On hard surfaces under oak trees in the spring, when the sap has just begun to run, and the drops
    from winter bark breaks hit the damp surface during the night and spread into rings. Round if the
    surface is perfectly flat and regular, elliptical if it's inclined or irregular at all.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
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