encouraging cycling to work

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Ian Smith
('[email protected]') wrote:

> The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
> more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
> area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
> mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
> away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.
>
> What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
> tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
> drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

Somewhere genuinely secure to store good bicycles, not only secure
against theft but secure against accidental damage by other people's
bicycles. One-bike-sized lockable lockers; and, if you're looking at
bike+train, also some Brompton-sized lockable lockers.

> Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
> important than just about everything else on the list.

Absolutely. Ain't going to happen otherwise. No-one is going to leave
even £500 worth of Brompton, let alone £2000 worth of good road bike,
out in the rain under the eyes of minipikeys. For a start, rain like
we've had in the past week is going to start corrosion, and make
maintenance much more of a pain.

> At the moment,
> I change in a cubicle in the gents toilet, and my bike gear festers
> for the day in a plastic bag, but I'd rather that and know the bike is
> securely locked under cover than have luxurious showers and worry
> about the bike. Is this unusual? Can anyone suggest references that
> support my argument? I can present my argument to the board (maybe I
> should admit I'm on the board, and own a very small proportion of the
> company), but I could do with a bit more than just "I think xyz",
> since others (who don't cycle) have seized on showers and
> tax breaks as the be-all and end-all. And tehre's a very small
> possibility that I'm wrong - maybe everyone else thinsk showers are
> more important than bike parking - so I'd like to hear all views.

When I've commuted to work - up to 21 miles each way - I've never felt
the need for a shower. But I have - very strongly - felt the need for
secure storage. You're more likely to need a shower if you travel on a
crowded commuter train than on a bike.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;;Drivers in the UK kill more people every single year than
;; Al Qaeda have ever killed in any single year.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Marianne Promberger wrote:
>
>> How important relative to that showers and changing rooms are probably
>> depends on the distance most people would cycle, and what kind of
>> clothes they have to wear at work. I have never cycled so far/fast
>> that I had to shower at work, and just wear regular clothes.
>
> On the one hand, from a personal level I agree completely, but OTOH,
> trying to project myself onto Mr. Joseph Public's typically average
> thoughts, what is actually useful and the general perception of what
> is useful are two different things.

Please, not /another/ helmet thread!

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; may contain traces of nuts, bolts or washers.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, POHB
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Yes, but it doesn't have to be a formally designated area. If you've
> got an underground car park you may well be able to find a railing or
> downpipe to
> lock on to. In some workplaces you can find a space under the
> fire-escape
> or a broom-cupboard. Sometimes when I've forgotten my keys I've just
> carried my bike to my desk and leaned it against the wall.

When I commuted to work I also used to keep my bike in my office. It is
the most secure solution, but does rather depend on having space.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Simon Mason
('[email protected]') wrote:

>
> "Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
>> tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
>> drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?
>
> I work for Europe's largest company and cycle to work 12 miles each way
> all year round. I have had nothing but discouragements all the way. ...
> Needless to say they
> are *totally* commited to health, safety and the environment.

To be fair, they're also committed to selling as much fossil fuel as
humanly possible, and you, by riding a bike, are a heretic who
undermines their profitability. What if everybody rode a bike? How would
your good employers make their megabucks then?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'

 

[Simon Mason]

"Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:201hk3-
>
> To be fair, they're also committed to selling as much fossil fuel as
> humanly possible, and you, by riding a bike, are a heretic who
> undermines their profitability. What if everybody rode a bike? How would
> your good employers make their megabucks then?

I couldn't possibly comment due to legal (P45) reasons ;-) Suffice to say
that at least I'm not a hypocrite concerning HSE. Still, there are plenty of
Asians who are using up the stuff that I'm leaving in the ground.

 

[dkahn400]

Ian Smith wrote:

> The ramp down to the car-park has a railing on one edge (other edge is
> blank wall), but I wouldn't fancy suspending my bike on the outer
> face, and it's tight turning in - a bike left chained to the inner
> face of the railing would be liable to being seriously damaged by cars
> trying to turn in. Pedestrian access/egress is via a separate
> staircase, which is surrounded by a wall.

Would it not be possible to site a number of bike lockers along the
blank wall? It might be necessary to move car parking spaces back a
bit. I agree with most of the other posters that secure cycle storage
is far and way the most important single measure, and cycle lockers in
an underground facility are just about the ideal solution.

--
Dave...

 

[Jim Ley]

On Thu, 25 May 2006 16:49:00 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Somewhere genuinely secure to store good bicycles, not only secure
>against theft but secure against accidental damage by other people's
>bicycles. One-bike-sized lockable lockers; and, if you're looking at
>bike+train, also some Brompton-sized lockable lockers.

Companies don't provide lockers for cars, so I'm not quite sure why
they should be necessary for bikes, just some railings to secure the
bike to along the wall as suggested by the other post should be
plenty, and nicely low in cost.

Most bikes used for commuting are not 2000 machines.

Jim.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, POHB wrote:
>lock on to. In some workplaces you can find a space under the fire-escape
>or a broom-cupboard. Sometimes when I've forgotten my keys I've just
>carried my bike to my desk and leaned it against the wall.

That works if you are the only person or nearly the only person who
cycles. If everyone who cycled here brought their bike in, they
would be a major problem.
(We have a spare lock or two on the bookcases for people who have
forgotten their keys.)

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Jim Ley
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Thu, 25 May 2006 16:49:00 +0100, Simon Brooke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Somewhere genuinely secure to store good bicycles, not only secure
>>against theft but secure against accidental damage by other people's
>>bicycles. One-bike-sized lockable lockers; and, if you're looking at
>>bike+train, also some Brompton-sized lockable lockers.
>
> Companies don't provide lockers for cars, so I'm not quite sure why
> they should be necessary for bikes, just some railings to secure the
> bike to along the wall as suggested by the other post should be
> plenty, and nicely low in cost.
>
> Most bikes used for commuting are not 2000 machines.

A single car parking space costs the employer a lot more than a single
bike locker - probably as much as ten bike lockers. Furthermore, a
locked car is not nearly so vulnerable to damage by malicious persons as
a locked bike. Furthermore, if you're cycling to work instead of
driving, you'd be amazed how quickly a £2,000 bike will pay for itself.
If you aren't going to provide facilities to allow people to ride nice
bikes to work, many people are not going to ride.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'there are no solutions, only precipitates'

 

[Someone Here]

"Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
> important than just about everything else on the list. At the moment,
> I change in a cubicle in the gents toilet, and my bike gear festers
> for the day in a plastic bag, but I'd rather that and know the bike is
> securely locked under cover than have luxurious showers and worry
> about the bike. Is this unusual? Can anyone suggest references that
> support my argument? I can present my argument to the board (maybe I
> should admit I'm on the board, and own a very small proportion of the
> company), but I could do with a bit more than just "I think xyz",
> since others (who don't cycle) have seized on showers and
> tax breaks as the be-all and end-all. And tehre's a very small
> possibility that I'm wrong - maybe everyone else thinsk showers are
> more important than bike parking - so I'd like to hear all views.

Ask your local police station for crime statistics.
Stolen cycles and damaged cycles for the last available period.

You are about to bring X number of extra cycles into the area
so the statistics will increase. UNLESS there is some form of secure
parking.

HTH

Dave

 

[congokid]

In article <[email protected]>, John B <[email protected]>
writes

>I work with a company that provides all the hard facilities - showers,
>bike sheds, pool bikes and so on, but the thing taht stops many from
>riding to work is the worry about the traffic and especially the large
>multi-laned roundabout they need to negotiate outside the offices.

Sounds like Hammersmith Broadway. I did that twice this afternoon on my
Brompton on the way to and from my Spanish GCSE O level exam.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

 

[congokid]

In article <[email protected]>, Ian Smith
<[email protected]> writes

>maybe everyone else thinsk showers are
>more important than bike parking - so I'd like to hear all views.

Yes - for me quality/availability of bike parking was always more
important than shower facilities, since I never used the showers at the
office unless my own at home wasn't working.

When the business moved to a location that had no covered or secure
space to park my bike, I stopped cycling and took the bus instead. The
result - a 30-minute cycle ride into or out of central London over 4.5
miles became a bus journey taking between 75-90 minutes. And costing
about UKP 12 a week.

A week later I'd had enough and forked out for a Brompton T3, so the
lack of proper parking became a non-issue.

Therefore I'd say secure parking is much more important than anything
else. Once novice cyclists have their bike nicked because they didn't
secure it properly (every day in London I see bikes attached to
railings, etc, just begging to be plundered) or there was nowhere safe
to leave it, they're not likely to risk it again and may drive instead
if that's the other option.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

 

[Jim Ley]

On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:27:59 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Jim Ley
>> Companies don't provide lockers for cars, so I'm not quite sure why
>> they should be necessary for bikes, just some railings to secure the
>> bike to along the wall as suggested by the other post should be
>> plenty, and nicely low in cost.
>>
>> Most bikes used for commuting are not 2000 machines.
>
>A single car parking space costs the employer a lot more than a single
>bike locker - probably as much as ten bike lockers.

Rubbish, you can't fit 10 bike lockers in the space of a single car
parking space, and you've got significant extra costs beyond a bit of
paint.

> Furthermore, a
>locked car is not nearly so vulnerable to damage by malicious persons as
>a locked bike.

In an underground carpark under CCTV, sorry I can't see it.

Jim.

 

[Ian Smith]

On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:15:27 GMT, Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:27:59 +0100, Simon Brooke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Furthermore, a
> > locked car is not nearly so vulnerable to damage by malicious
> > persons as a locked bike.
>
> In an underground carpark under CCTV, sorry I can't see it.

Try this. Locate a locked car. Give the wheel a good diagonal
stamp / kick. How much damage? (In my tests, none).

Lock your bike up. Give the wheel a good diagonal stamp / kick. How
much damage? (in my tests, I didn't do this because I know it will
knacker the wheel).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Peter]

"Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
> more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
> area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
> mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
> away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.
>
> What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
> tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
> drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

Bike parking is most important to me - especially in winter. My employer
provides about 36 bike lockers - secure and dry.
Chuck the bike in with lights attached, quick and simple.

Having said that, I only cycle a couple of miles, so go in my work clothes.
I ocasionally need a quick spray of deodorant on arrival, but there have
been no complaints from colleagues.
Work also provides showers for longer distance commuters, but not a tax-free
scheme...yet...
If it's raining, any wet clobber goes on the radiator.

Peter

 

[Simon Geller]

Ian Smith wrote:

>
> What is needed? What encourages cycle use? Obviously there's the IR
> tax-free-bike scheme. There is also talk of showers / change room /
> drying room. What else encourages and benefits cyclists?

One thing that I think is important is that there has to be a cycling
culture. It has to be seen as not just OK to cycle, but actually pretty
cool.

Things that can help are: a cyclist chatgroup; a cycling web page on the
company intranet; A Bicycle User Group (BUG) A cycling champion at a
high level, preferably the MD; tax breaks for cycling; e.g. high mileage
allowances; cyclists breakfasts (these are tax-deductible); maybe the
odd company bike ride ( a great team-building exercise, especially if
done in company time )

All the infrastructure & cycling facilities in the world won't help if
the company ethos is that cyclists are little better than earthworms and
what you really need is a souped-up BMW.

Simon

 

[Colin McKenzie]

Ian Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May, David Hansen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 25 May 2006 12:57:46 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
>><[email protected]> wrote this:-
>>>The company I work for may be moving into a new building which has
>>>more desk spaces than car-parking spaces. Public transport in the
>>>area is poor. The company wants to encourage cycle use, including
>>>mixed mode - there's a decent railway station on one line 1.5 miles
>>>away, and another line 2 miles in a different direction.
>>
>> What sort of trains operate on these lines, how frequently and how
>> many bikes can each carry? What is bike use like at the moment on
>> these trains and what are the bike carriage policies? Are train
>> services at suitable times?
>
> No. Number and frequency of trains is OK. One of the lines serves
> the town from which most people travel, and the other serves the
> second-most town. Sadly, both lines are London commuter lines, and
> don't carry bikes unless folders. We've already identified that if
> people want to combine bike and train, they'll need to leave bikes at
> the station, or have a folder.

I think bike security is the crux. Definitely at the office, but also
at both stations. It is very unlikely that there is anything secure
enough there mow, since bikes will need to be left overnight and at
weekends.

Spend money on secure storage first.

I think you could sell the 1.5 or 2 mile journey as short enough not
to need showers etc - it's the same effort as a half-mile walk. There
have to be some weather conditions in which cycling is neither hot and
sweaty nor cold and wet!

Consider having pool bikes, once secure parking is in place at the
stations, so people can try for themselves without transporting a bike
to the office.

I agree with John B about cycle training. Also offer advice on luggage
- few non-cyclists realise how much you can carry.

Colin McKenzie

--
On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking
a mile than cycling it.
So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?

 

[Graeme Dods]

Marianne Promberger wrote:

> Maybe part of the reason why non-cyclists underestimate the importance
> of cycle parking is because they fail to consider the hassle of finding
> a new bike and getting it set up "just right", bike-less time it takes
> to shop around, order bike, etc.

Just ask them how much time, thought and effort they put into buying
their car and how they'd feel if someone nicked it. Yes, there's a bit
of a difference in financial impact, but the level of hassle is fairly
similar.

Graeme

 

[sothach]

Ian Smith wrote:

> Personally, I think safe, secure, covered bike parking is more
> important than just about everything else on the list.

That should be #1 priority, secure and covered parking, and no
wheel-warper bike stands.

> At the moment, I change in a cubicle in the gents toilet, and my bike gear festers
> for the day in a plastic bag,

Same here, except I snuck in on a weekend with a drill, and installed a
hook behing the toilet door, so I can hand my gear there to dry.

 

[Jim Ley]

On 25 May 2006 18:54:28 GMT, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:15:27 GMT, Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:27:59 +0100, Simon Brooke
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Furthermore, a
>> > locked car is not nearly so vulnerable to damage by malicious
>> > persons as a locked bike.
>>
>> In an underground carpark under CCTV, sorry I can't see it.
>
>Try this. Locate a locked car. Give the wheel a good diagonal
>stamp / kick. How much damage? (In my tests, none).
>
>Lock your bike up. Give the wheel a good diagonal stamp / kick. How
>much damage? (in my tests, I didn't do this because I know it will
>knacker the wheel).

You're looking at 1 type of damage and ignoring others, keying a cars
paintwork is simple, puncturing tyres isn't that diffcult, smashing
windows is simple, all of it is just as possible as kicking in a bike,
I see no reason for the bike to be more protected.

Jim.