"Endurance" IF, Cpeaks Power411 conflict?

[NomadVW]

Curious to know what ya'll consider an endurance ride IF rating.

Referencing the Cyclingpeaks Power411:
The Coggan zones put "Endurance" as L2 of 56-75% FTP. Later the list of IF's for "typical rides" with an endurance ride as .75 to .85.

Which is which? .85 seems pretty high for an "endurance" ride to me. I didn't even know the IF values were listed until someone else pointed them out.

 

[gvanwagner]

Curious to know what ya'll consider an endurance ride IF rating.

Referencing the Cyclingpeaks Power411:
The Coggan zones put "Endurance" as L2 of 56-75% FTP. Later the list of IF's for "typical rides" with an endurance ride as .75 to .85.

Which is which? .85 seems pretty high for an "endurance" ride to me. I didn't even know the IF values were listed until someone else pointed them out.

The first one that you mentions refers to the average power while the list of IFs refers to the rides NP. Also, of course endurance could cover rides from 2-6+hrs so that will cause some variation. I tend to be around .77-.84 for 3.5hrs rides but this depends a lot on my form and also on the course.

Greg

 

[POGATA]

The first one that you mentions refers to the average power while the list of IFs refers to the rides NP. Also, of course endurance could cover rides from 2-6+hrs so that will cause some variation. I tend to be around .77-.84 for 3.5hrs rides but this depends a lot on my form and also on the course.

Greg

NP OR AP

 

[acoggan]

NP OR AP

Since he expressed things as a decimal, that would be IF, which is normalized power/functional threshold power.

 

[NomadVW]

So, lemme get this straight. If I live in Kansas flat territory, I should ride steady L3 power to get a steady L2 workout?

Meaning, if I was to sit down and ride @AP 75% FTP steady for three hours, I've not even accomplished an endurance ride because my NP is also .75?

I know this is splitting hairs, but it simply makes no sense to me to have definitions differing by so much.

My ".85" is 293 watts
My L2 Coggan is 196-259 (57-75% AP of FTP)

That's a pretty drastic difference I'd have to accumulate to get a NP of bottom end of "endurance ride."

 

[sugaken]

So, lemme get this straight. If I live in Kansas flat territory, I should ride steady L3 power to get a steady L2 workout?

Meaning, if I was to sit down and ride @AP 75% FTP steady for three hours, I've not even accomplished an endurance ride because my NP is also .75?

No and no. I think, since I'm not Dr. Coggan, he meant by "[IF of] 0.75-0.85 [for] endurance-paced training rides" that if you go ride outdoors aiming at overall AP in L2 range, your IF (=NP/FTP) for the ride will typically end up ranging from 0.75 to 0.85 because of stochastic nature of power and because NP is typically higher than AP for variable power rides longer than a few munites. If it doesn't, don't worry.

I think you're reading too much into it.

Hope this helps,

Ken

 

[Speedskater]

I think this is an interesting issue since misunderstanding it would end up in adding a lot of miles at an intesity higher than intended. You have to ride really unsteady to achieve the VI necessary to get from an AP of 56% of FTP to a NP of 75% of FTP, both of which are to be considered low L2. Especially steady riding on relatively flat street results in VIs lower than 1,02 for me. Maybe Andy can clear things up.

 

[frenchyge]

The levels are based on AP and AP alone. Higher NP's due to variable paced outdoor riding are typical, but do not change the overall nature or level of the workout.

If you want an L2 workout, then ride such that AP falls within L2.

Edit: I guess I should clarify that interval workouts are based on the AP of the work interval, not the entire ride.

 

[acoggan]

The levels are based on AP and AP alone.

Exactly.

 

[acoggan]

I think, since I'm not Dr. Coggan, he meant by "[IF of] 0.75-0.85 [for] endurance-paced training rides" that if you go ride outdoors aiming at overall AP in L2 range, your IF (=NP/FTP) for the ride will typically end up ranging from 0.75 to 0.85 because of stochastic nature of power and because NP is typically higher than AP for variable power rides longer than a few munites. If it doesn't, don't worry.

You may not be me, but you did a great job of addressing the issue.

 

[acoggan]

My ".85" is 293 watts
My L2 Coggan is 196-259 (57-75% AP of FTP)

That's a pretty drastic difference I'd have to accumulate to get a NP of bottom end of "endurance ride."

First, 0.85 is the highest IF you'd typically see for a level 2 workout, not the lowest. Second, I think you're underestimating the amount of variability in power that typically exists (pan-flat solo rides and trainer workouts being notable exceptions). For example, where I ride (w. St. Louis county) it is flat enough that I spend most of my time in the big chainring and I average 19+ mph, yet my VI is still high enough that an average power of ~75% equates to ratio of normalized power:functional threshold power of greater than 0.85.