Entry Level Bikes and Such

Discussion in 'Your Bloody Soap Box' started by Ray1966, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. Ray1966

    Ray1966 Member

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    I’ve been a cyclist for a number of years now. My favorite is the Road bike, but I’ve been known to go charging down a hill on a mountain bike in the winter. When it comes to bikes, their isn’t much I don’t like, except for one thing: the term entry level. You hear this from the bike companies and also from a lot of other cyclists.

    Well, what is it about this term that bugs me you may ask. Once again this is just my opinion and I’m not trying to get anyone mad. You will have your opinion on this as well, and that’s the way it should be. So, let me explain this nonsense term. I’m 45 years old, and I’m NOT a pro cyclist or compete in cycling events. I ride charity events, and when I’m not doing that I’m out on my bike doing 40 plus miles everyday. I ride because I enjoy it, to help maintain my weight and for the enjoyment of cycling.

    My bikes consist of a 2007 Trek 1000 SL looks brand new and works like brand new. I also have a 2010 Giant Defy 3 and a 2001 GT ZR 4000 all road bikes and all look in new condition. I take very good care of my bikes. Anyway, I don’t know how many times I’ve done charity rides and have other riders say to me : Nice entry level road bike;. Well first off, I don’t have a lot of money to spend on bikes. If you do, and/or you are a competitive cyclist then by all means buy the kind of bike with the components you want. But if you’re someone who just enjoys cycling like me then you don’t unless you want to. Think about how many kids, as well as adults can’t get a bike at all and would be very happy to have a yard sale bike. It makes you’re bike not seem that bad.

    The point is, my bikes serve me well. They work the way I need and want them to work. They look good and I feel comfortable on them. I think it’s wrong for Bike companies, as well as all other material thing companies we have in our society to try and make people feel bad for not taking out a second mortgage, or re financing the house to buy their product. Now the Cyclist that say this to people with the lower cost bikes, They may have good intentions, and it may make them feel good to have something better than you, but not everyone makes the same amount of money, not everyone has the need for the multi thousand dollar bikes. When it comes down to it just don’t let this kind of thing bother you. Well it must bother you to be posting this right? No it doesn’t. I don’t feel bad about the bikes I ride or, the name, the components on it. They work the way I want them to, they are comfortable and I enjoy them every time I go out for a ride.

    What does bother me is when I see other cyclists feel bad and embarrassed for riding a so called entry level bike, and how some cyclists will intentionally make them feel bad because of what they ride, the name or the components on their bike. Just think of it this way. There was a time in our lives when we didn’t have anything. We had to ask our parents for things and hope we got them. Some of us got the things we wanted some didn’t. We grew up, got jobs, families and had to save to get our little toys we enjoy today. So when it comes to bikes, as well as anything else, whatever you can afford then by all means go for it and enjoy it because there is no guarantee that you will be here tomorrow. But don’t let the marketing words and terms of companies and other people make you feel bad about what you ride, drive or any other. If you enjoy it, then that’s what it’s all about.
     
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  2. 64Paramount

    64Paramount Active Member

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    At one time my road bikes would've probably been considered entry level bikes, now they considered by a lot of riders to be too old and too out of date technology wise.

    But, as long as I enjoy riding them and they continue to perform well, I don't plan on getting a newer bike.

    Both bikes are still faster than I am... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
     
  3. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    A few weeks back Cannondale had posted about entry level bikes on thier FB page. I responded to them that they needed to remove that term from their bike line up. I had recommended they use terms like "Sport" "Competition" and "Recreational" in thier line up.

    I believe they do need to have classifications of the various series of bikes geared towards the market. They have used the term "Entry" as a segway into the road bikes. The cost are lower and it is a way of making road cycling more affordable.

    I too own a 2001 Trek 1000 with Sora components which I have logged over 50000 miles on. The bike may be entry level but I am not. FWIW I own two other road bikes which are not entry level. Overall my performance is no different from one bike to the other.
     
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  4. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Uhm, why even worry what "classification" a bike is in, eh? Better yet, why even worry about what other riders say about your bike or how they classify it? Really, I couldn't care less what a bike company classifies a given bike as. I couldn't care less about what other riders say about my bike?

    What do I care about? Uhm, I care about how my bike fits, how it works for me when I ride it, and how much I enjoy riding it. More importantly, of all the bike things I couldn't care less about, the one that has the greatest magnitude is that I couldn't care less how some marketing turd, bike magazine, or bike blogger classifies a given bike. Either the bike works for you or doesn't.

    Sadly we live in a societies where a lot of time some people hang on such classifications to make themselves feel superior to others or some people allow themselves to feel, for lack of a better word, victimized by such classifications.

    Let's face it: in almost any case possible, it's the rider that determines the outcome of a race or who is faster. Not to contradict 64Paramount (although obviously a '64 Paramount was an entry level bike while the '92 custom Waterford Paramount OS I had was an über race bike......./img/vbsmilies/smilies/ROTF.gif), but a bike only goes as fast as it's rider. I've watched my Look 595 a lot at night in my apartment, and I have yet to see it move it all relative to it's current location on the surface of the Earth. Please note this true whether you consider space "flat" or whether you consider "space time" and have to use the Theory of General Relativity. Just watching pro races, it's obvious that the lightest and most aero bikes don't always win, right? I'm willing to bet that if Phillipe Gilbert road a Giant Defy, he would still win races. Dig into the history of studies done on bike/rider performance versus a given physical bike parameter, and you'll find not a single study that correlates improved performance with increased bike frame stiffness. Hell, that Stephen Roche won so many races on Vitus aluminum frames, which at the time defined and also today would define "noodly", pretty much casts a large mass of doubt on how stiffness is King Dick of Cycling.

    Remember for racers, no matter whether they're road bike pros, MotoGP riders, or F1 drivers, and for the teams that support them, finishing well and winning pay the bills and attract the sponsors. They'll try anything to gain an edge that's minutely sharper than their opponents. That's just the nature of racing. Quite often.....way too often.....the public misinterprets that tendency to think that the expensive components and slick tricks of the pro racers are necessary for going fast. The marketing vomitous masses salivate at the opportunity to take advantage of that misinterpretation or ignorance (as opposed to "stupidity", so in this case ignorance just means "lacking knowledge of something") to sell more product. Of course a lot of LBS or LBS workers are more than willing to play this same game. For a long time the mantra "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" has been true for a lot of racing sports.

    Really, the best way to address this issue is to not give a shite about it. Enjoy your ride, your descent, your climb, your company, the scenery. That's the stuff that matters.....well, matters relative to cycling. The thing that matters most is how amazingly awesome Marisa Tomei looked when naked in "Before the Devil Knows You're Dead":

    [​IMG]

    There would be no limit to how I would debase myself for her.
     
  5. Rehman

    Rehman New Member

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    When the term "entry-level" is used by bike manufacturers and retailers, it's a marketing device aimed at parents, guardians and sponsors; when used by other riders, it's invariably a term of disparagement akin to "Fred" or "wanna-be". Mind you, should a new rider display a brand-new top-level bike, he'd also elicit "tosser" or "poseur". It just seems to be the Way of the Peloton - cycling, like all human activities, attracts the competitive and their egos.
     
  6. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    No. Not. That term, used by manufacturers, is also aimed at individual cyclists, specifically people stepping into the sport for the first time. The use of the term is not the Way of the Peloton. If you think it is, you're riding with the wrong people.
     
  7. Rehman

    Rehman New Member

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    Right. I've been alienated. I ride alone.
     
  8. jazzz

    jazzz New Member

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    My roadie is a Giant SCR2 which pre dates the Defy, it took me to Paris from London then all around Normandy with a two person tent, big panniers and all the usual stuff this year plus the 200 miles it does every week to keep my fitness up, we're going to spain next year across France and then on to Barcelona, entry level? maybe but she overtakes lots of very expensive things riden by rich guys with poor legs.
    My commuter bike is a Giant Bowery (Fixie) that gets 100 miles a week, not even considered as an entry level bike by the people who know, it still craps on them all in town. i used to commute a Saracen jet, big front rings, nice wheels and Conti GP's, oh how they laughed at the traffic lights, oh how they sobbed when i blew them away (you would think they would recognise all the Easton parts hanging off it).
    When you've been riding for a while you will know what works where you ride.
     
  9. jazzz

    jazzz New Member

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    About stiffness, Valentino Rossi (who is a fair MotoGp rider) is working on the Ducati to make it less stiff, i've had things that are mad stiff but a couple of hours and you are too tired to ride (zzr Kawasaki, Honda Fireblades) no comprimise ludicrous speed is great to go to blast on but do you want to tour Los Malletos in spainish desert on something that hurts?
     
  10. AlanG

    AlanG Member

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    I can relate somewhat. Last summer I was in Monaco and some of those snobs made me feel pretty crappy for showing up in my 75' "entry level" yacht.
     
  11. 64Paramount

    64Paramount Active Member

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    Well, don't feel too bad about it... my therapist said we all had to start somewhere. That is, unless of course you come from old money like I did, then you never really have to start anything as long as you keep paying your therapist to tell you it's okay never to start anything....
     
  12. jazzz

    jazzz New Member

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    75 foot? for a yacht? surely you mean Metres old boy and that IS entry level, my shore boat is 75 foot, that's only the length of a dinning room table, i don't think you're taking the thread seriously
     
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  13. Reid2

    Reid2 Member

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    Exactly. And I am an ex-United States Navy Sailor,
    and we had a protocol. Any vessel shorter than 100 feet in exposed length is a "boat".
    All submarines, regardless of length, are "boats".

    Seventy five "feet" is a boat, no matter whether it swims, or sinks upon command.
     
  14. AlanG

    AlanG Member

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    Well now I know why they were laughing at me.

    At least my car was popular.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. jazzz

    jazzz New Member

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    Alan, Nice car, is that the Milan show? i missed it as the Lear was in for servicing and Her Madge had the yacht (Maddening but Phillip wanted to visit the family and as we know, he can be rather obstreperous), must have taken a while to get the peasant drool from the bonnet.
    Reid, thank you for the English lesson, when next i visit Southampton i shall inform the Earl of his great to the thirds grandfathers sponsors mistake.
     
  16. rxter

    rxter New Member

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    One man's entry level is another man's dream. Don't take it too seriously. I'm with alien. #1 priority is fit. Comfort, speed, rideability, blah blah blah, comes when the fit is right. #2 is budget. If it fits me and my budget then I'm happy, and I don't really care if it looks entry level or like I just stepped off the Tour - who cares?
     
  17. AlanG

    AlanG Member

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    That is a photo from a few years ago of an Enzo at my local Virginia Ferrari dealer. It is an owner's car (aren't they all as there is a waiting list) who consented to let the dealer show it off for a night to celebrate opening their new showroom. As you probably can guess it is quite a bit too rich for my blood, but the dealer is one of my clients so I've seen a lot of Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis and Porsches. (I am a commercial advertising photographer.)

    As for bikes, the most important thing about them is riding them and enjoying whatever bike you have. I like nice stuff too but what others think should not matter to anyone if you like what you have. At some point in life some people just have to find ways to spend their money. In photography there are amateurs who spend $7,000 for a high end camera body and thousands more for each lens mostly to take family snapshots and travel photos. This keeps a company such as Leica going.
     
  18. Reid2

    Reid2 Member

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    Oh, I did not know about that compliment. Thank you, but I may become rather obsequious if you compliment my perspicacity.

    : )

    Clara taught me that great old word, "obsequious", I think it means haughty, proud, like, when she met young Jascha Heifetz
    in the Conservatory in St. Petersburg in 1915, and she was a tiny girl, but Jascha, who was becoming a famed prodigy already,
    "There he was, knee pants, and with his nose held high and looking down it at us all, he was quite...obsequious."

    I know some obsequious road cyclists. I'm not one of them. I'm only obstreperous, or as we all say today, an asshole.

    If you put an obstreperous person together with an obsequious person you may have to get an obstetrician.
     
  19. Rehman

    Rehman New Member

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    Actually, Reid, quite the opposite. Obsequious means servile.
     
  20. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct:

    obsequious |əbˈsēkwēəs|adjectiveobedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree
     
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