Entry level road bike alum frames

[artmichalek]

Frame owner: "Hey, Fred, I want the stiffest paint you've got for this frame."
Fred, the painter: "Sure, no problem. That'll be $500 extra."
F.O. : "Well, if the paint's really stiff then it's easily worth the extra $500. I've heard really great things about stiff paint."

It's that new Nanotech paint!

 

[fish156]

It's that new Nanotech paint!

So, if you can get a better result with the paint, how about stiffer wax? Maybe there's something to that Turtle Wax "hard shell" finish.

 

[artmichalek]

So, if you can get a better result with the paint, how about stiffer wax? Maybe there's something to that Turtle Wax "hard shell" finish.

Or just wrap a few rolls of duct tape around the tubes. It will make the frame so heavy that your friends will just marvel at how stiff it must be.

 

[alfeng]

1) I wouldn't be swallowing any of my pride because I never said anything about aluminum being tempered.
2) Aluminum can't be tempered. Tempering refers to heating matensitic steel in order to relieve internal stresses and induce a phase transition. Aluminum is single phase and thus cannot be tempered. Aluminum bike frames are heated to a temperature below annealing for a period of time after welding, then air cooled, but this has nothing to do with tempering.

Now, will you run along and stop wasting our time?

Silly me ...

I just presumed with your (artmichalek) apparent background that whatever YOU said on the matter would be acceptable ... my mistake.

Okay ... just clarify this for me -- what is tempered aluminum?

Why do manufacturers refer to it? Is that possibly a marketing label?

WAIT ...

Here is an article, titled "Tempering 6061 Aluminum" which may or may not be valid:

http://glastar.emwd.com/0010/msg00195.html​

WAIT. Here is another about tempering & "stress reduction":

http://www.noao.edu/ets/gnirs/SDN0013-07.htm​

3. Standard Processes


3.1 Tempering

Aluminum is strengthened by tempering; these processes are standardized and fairly wll characterized in terms of properties like yield strength. 6061 aluminum is usually treated to a T6 condition, which represents solution heat-treating followed by artificial aging. (Processes like T651 involve subsequent working of the plate; T7 implies over-aging.)

The tempering affects conductivity (electrical and thermal) slightly – about 10% – and has a pronounced effect on hardness, yield strength and the like (factors of 2-3). The modulus of elasticity is not affected. (Details on all this can be found in the ASM Metals Handbook, vol. 2 and 4).

... et cetera.

AND, THIS (entitled, "Aluminum Temper Designations"):

http://www.metalshorts.com/atd.htm​

I may be a jerk. I may even be an a--hole ... and, maybe some of my nomenclature is incorrect from a technical standpoint; but, puh-leeze ... ​

If you (fish156) want to question me for what you perceive to be shooting-from-the-hip, then it would be better if you weren't so lazy that you didn't at least learn how to use Google OR any other search engine.​

Again, sorry for presuming that you (artmichalek) would have the integrity to provide a valid clarification rather than a flawed, knee-jerk reply.​

PAJAMA PARTY THIS SATURDAY AT fish156's FOR ALL YOU "GIRLS" ...​

 

[fish156]

Silly me ...

I just presumed with your (artmichalek) apparent background that whatever YOU said on the matter would be acceptable ... my mistake.

Okay ... just clarify this for me -- what is tempered aluminum?

Why do manufacturers refer to it? Is that possibly a marketing label?

WAIT ...

Here is an article, titled "Tempering 6061 Aluminum" which may or may not be valid:

http://glastar.emwd.com/0010/msg00195.html​

WAIT. Here is another about tempering & "stress reduction":

http://www.noao.edu/ets/gnirs/SDN0013-07.htm​

3. Standard Processes


3.1 Tempering

Aluminum is strengthened by tempering; these processes are standardized and fairly wll characterized in terms of properties like yield strength. 6061 aluminum is usually treated to a T6 condition, which represents solution heat-treating followed by artificial aging. (Processes like T651 involve subsequent working of the plate; T7 implies over-aging.)

The tempering affects conductivity (electrical and thermal) slightly – about 10% – and has a pronounced effect on hardness, yield strength and the like (factors of 2-3). The modulus of elasticity is not affected. (Details on all this can be found in the ASM Metals Handbook, vol. 2 and 4).

... et cetera.

AND, THIS (entitled, "Aluminum Temper Designations"):

http://www.metalshorts.com/atd.htm​

I may be a jerk. I may even be an a--hole ... and, maybe some of my nomenclature is incorrect from a technical standpoint; but, puh-leeze ... ​

If you (fish156) want to question me for what you perceive to be shooting-from-the-hip, then it would be better if you weren't so lazy that you didn't at least learn how to use Google OR any other search engine.​

Again, sorry for presuming that you (artmichalek) would have the integrity to provide a valid clarification rather than a flawed, knee-jerk reply.​

PAJAMA PARTY THIS SATURDAY AT fish156's FOR ALL YOU "GIRLS" ...​

Ok, one more time for the slow of reading comprehension:

Allowing that the two frames are identically spec'd by the designing engineer, and presuming that the frames are properly tempered after welding, the heavier one will have heavier welds and will undoubtedly be infinitesimally stiffer BECAUSE it has more material at the welds and/or more paint.​

As anyone will see from those two articles you link to, they have absolutely nothing to do with bicycle frames and are extremely exotic applications. Hey, you were the one who thought it necessary to post in red letters. Get back to us when you have some evidence that anyone has ever tempered a bicycle frame (as you stated in the bold red letters).

BTW, what's a "Google"? I'm not familiar with that one.

 

[artmichalek]

Silly me ...

I just presumed with your (artmichalek) apparent background that whatever YOU said on the matter would be acceptable ... my mistake.

Okay ... just clarify this for me -- what is tempered aluminum?

My appologies for forgetting that only untrained amateurs refer to the heat treating of nonferrous metals as "tempering". By the way, didn't it feel good to post an exerpt confirming that modulus of elasticity is in fact not affected by the aforementioned heat treatment?

 

[fish156]

Ok, one more time for the slow of reading comprehension:

Allowing that the two frames are identically spec'd by the designing engineer, and presuming that the frames are properly tempered after welding, the heavier one will have heavier welds and will undoubtedly be infinitesimally stiffer BECAUSE it has more material at the welds and/or more paint.​

As anyone will see from those two articles you link to, they have absolutely nothing to do with bicycle frames and are extremely exotic applications. Hey, you were the one who thought it necessary to post in red letters. Get back to us when you have some evidence that anyone has ever tempered a bicycle frame (as you stated in the bold red letters).

BTW, what's a "Google"? I'm not familiar with that one.

Geez, I almost forgot. I did not see anything in either of those two articles about how those processes have anything at all to do with being post-welding processes.
It is, after all, " tempered after welding " that's under discussion.

 

[alfeng]

My appologies for forgetting that only untrained amateurs refer to the heat treating of nonferrous metals as "tempering". By the way, didn't it feel good to post an exerpt confirming that modulus of elasticity is in fact not affected by the aforementioned heat treatment?

Yes. Not just "good" but GREAT!!!

Thanks for your "continued support ..."

Don't forget to get fish156's address from him ... unless you already have it!

 

[alfeng]

Get back to us when you have some evidence that anyone has ever tempered a bicycle frame (as you stated in the bold red letters).

BTW, what's a "Google"? I'm not familiar with that one.

For the record: Who would qualify as "anyone" in your book?

I mean, I realize your Uncle Schlomoe probably wouldn't count ... similarly, Jose-in-the-Barrio probably doesn't count in your book. But, just who would qualify as "anyone" in your book?

I've got a couple of names, but I think you & your new lover-boy will want to spend your weekend pajama party thinking of who they might be ... maybe he can teach you how to Google!

 

[SD2006]

Good thinking 99!!!

Buy some narrow slicks and a fast cassette for the MTB!!

I'm currently running 26 x 1.5 Nimbus III's at 80 PSI. I'm thinking about trying a pair of these.

120 PSI tires on a mountain bike, holy shnikeys!!!

 

[gclark8]

I'm currently running 26 x 1.5 Nimbus III's at 80 PSI. I'm thinking about trying a pair of these.

120 PSI tires on a mountain bike, holy shnikeys!!!

The 26" GPs may no longer be available, not in the 2006 book. Use 26"x28mm Conti Ultra Gator Skin Slicks instead.
http://www.conti-online.com/generat.../race/ultra_gatorskin/ultra_gatorskin_en.html

Whats your gearing??

 

[SD2006]

The 26" GPs may no longer be available, not in the 2006 book. Use 26"x28mm Conti Ultra Gator Skin Slicks instead.
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/ultra_gatorskin/ultra_gatorskin_en.html

Whats your gearing??

24,34,42 chainrings with a 7 speed cassette, sizes 28 through 11.

 

[gclark8]

OK, the 11-28 7speed is good!! Fast!!

Consider buying a Shimano TX71 crankset, 28/38/48, and a FD CO-51 Front Derailleur, about $60-75 the lot in Aus. Now that will give some road speed to those slicks!!

 

[Alpha]

Is this a joke?

Wasn't there a question about entry level aluminum road bikes?

Or ..... did I some how arrive at the aluminum debating page?