epo use in late 80's?

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by ilpirata, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. ilpirata

    ilpirata New Member

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    Le Haye- The epo circulated among the most cunning of the peleton already in the late 80’s. The evidence of this is the confession of the ex dutch rider Steven Rooks, winner of the polka dot jersey as best climber in the Tour de France 1988. In a book with the title “The last yellow” written by dutch journalist Mart Smeets and published this week, Rooks admits “Yes I took the epo. It was necessary to arrive among the top riders.” He admits to using it in 1988 in which he won the stage of the Alpe d’Huez at the tour, and he placed second in the general classification behind Pedro Delgado. In the same book, two other Dutch riders of that time, Gert Jakobs and Matthieu Hermans, also admitted to the use of epo.

    It is hard to imagine cycling competion where there is a level playing field even today. And could it be that Greg Lemonde was clean and won against riders with epo edge?
     
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  2. Eldrack

    Eldrack New Member

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    1986, maybe clean. 1989 and 1990, almost definitely not. Then Indurain took the formula and perfected it to devistating effect.
     
  3. millzebub

    millzebub New Member

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    I would think it was possible for Lemond to win those tours clean for a few reasons and I think his lack of results in the early 90's bear this out. At the time of his wins, he was able to compete with "individuals" on epo. If it is true that epo use was very limited at that time, then the overall pace of races had not increased enough with widespread epo use to undermine a clean riders' ability to remain in the race. Most of the peleton was not on epo so Lemond could rely on the normal pace of racing and remain relatively fresh in the race up to the point where he would be tested by those "individual" riders on epo. It's also possible to think that since Lemond was arguably the best cyclist during those years, he would be 5-10% better than most of his competition and the benefits that these riders gained only put them on his level. It took a few years for epo use to spread at which time Lemond could no longer compete because the overall race pace was just too high because everyone was faster all the time rather than a few riders at given moments.
    My 200 cents.
     
  4. poulidor

    poulidor New Member

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    I don't know where you got this information but it's not true according all onterviews published on the net especially in dutch.
    He said he began EPO later but not in 1989. He said in 1989 there is rumor about EPO inside peloton but it was the Italians who used it in first in 1990.
    Besides the first use of EPO didn't give a 20-25% boost, a single shot for a race gives only a 3% boost. Only regular use especially during training permits to increase the limits by 20%!
    Just by looking at this chart we can easily guess when EPO produced his most efficient effects.
    From http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=2500
    [​IMG]
    Les années 80 : Avoriaz 1985, Herrera, Hinault 375 w
    Superbagnères 1986, Lemond 380 w
    Alpe d'Huez 1987, Herrera 395 w, 1989 Fignon, Delgado 390 w Why Lemond's power in 1989 with lthe alleged use of EPO would be similar to 1986?

    It's not coherent, for exemple Armstrong was just a 370W before meeting Ferrari then he got a wonderfull 480W engine powered with EPO and other PEDs...
     
  5. ilpirata

    ilpirata New Member

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  6. ilpirata

    ilpirata New Member

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    you are right that this article does not agree with sportpro.
     
  7. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    1986
     
  8. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    So the ~20 deaths of dutch cyclists from 87 on were just sheer coincidence? When Draaijer died in 89 following a heart attack, it was just a random thing that happened when his wife said "well, he got sick after taking EPO"

    Armstrong had a measured 370watts at 5l VO2 before he 'met' Ferrari. Many years later his value at 5l VO2 had risen to ~410watts. What this doesn't show is him power at max, which was somewhere over 6.1l/min which was always north of 450 watts. Details, details...
     
  9. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    There are two questions. a/ When did it start being used? and b/ when did it's use in the peloton become common or ubiquitous/

    Late 80's is when it first appeared. 1993/94 was when it became almost universal. Donati wrote about this in the mid-90's. He made some very interesting observations about the 5000m athletics event as well, how the times improved in 1993 with no improvements in training etc.

    The Dutch were the first to hook on to it, around 1988 and 1989. IIRC there were 7 reported deaths, Oosterboosh and Draajir being the biggest names. The Italians started dominating again in 1990. Their results were rubbish in 88-89, then the likes of Chiappucci, Argentin and Bugno were dominating events again out of the blue. It's fairly obvious why.

    The PDM 'Intralipid' scandal was 1991 or 1992? The word is it was EPO, not intralipid..

    Willy Voet reckons the French were a bit slow picking up on what was going on but realised around 1993 what they needed to do to be competitive.

    From what I have read it was trickling into the peloton in 88-89 in the Netherlands and Belgium, the Italians started epo in a big way around 1990-91, it was pretty much universal around 1993-1994. It must have started becoming easier to get in the early 90's. Late 80's it was still in clinical trials, or only just on the market.
     
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