Equipment To Blame

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Time Cop, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. Time Cop

    Time Cop New Member

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    Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a bad crash.
     
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  2. Time Cop wrote:

    > wrote:
    > > Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
    > > into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
    > > the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
    > > ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
    > > down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
    > > having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
    > > and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
    > > up front still working to set up him up perfectly for
    > > the sprint finish. Then at 400 meters, disaster - on
    > > the verge of the highest speeds of the race his chain
    > > came off again and there was simply no way he could
    > > recover with that short a distance left and contest
    > > the sprint. He basically had to sit up and roll into
    > > the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike racing..."
    >
    >
    >
    > Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
    > the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
    > Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
    > bad crash.

    Nah, probably the mechanic who worked on the bike will get
    40 lashes with an al-dente noodle. Remember, Max opened the
    races with a successful sprint.
     
  3. On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:30:27 GMT, Time Cop
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    >getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of the
    >1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super Record
    >titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a bad crash.

    I don't think that happened in the Giro. It was in the
    Autumn Grand Prix or Blois-Chaville or some version of a
    fall classic in France.

    JT
     
  4. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

    Time Cop wrote:
    > wrote:

    > Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > getting a phone call about their product.

    I don't do Shimano, but it's the mechanic's fault here, not
    the manufacturer's.
     
  5. Logarto

    Logarto Guest

    Time Cop <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > wrote: Reminds me of the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's
    > Campagnolo Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
    > resulting in a bad crash.
    >

    Tell me THAT picture isn't out in the internet somewhere. No
    helmet Figgy sitting dazed on the Pavment with a pedal and
    crankarm still strapped to his foot.

    And like the end of a lot of races back then he was waaaay
    off the front too.
     
  6. Tuschinski

    Tuschinski New Member

    Joined:
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    Hmmm... there are plenty of things waiting to go wrong in 150-200 kms. Maybe a pebble hit his drivetrain during the course and put it outa whack? Heck... a piece of plastic will do the same thing, or a twig, piece of string, etc etc.

    So I doubt there will be more than a litttle cursing
     
  7. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Time Cop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > wrote:
    > > Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
    > > into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
    > > the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
    > > ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
    > > down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
    > > having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
    > > and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
    > > up front still working to set up
    him
    > > up perfectly for the sprint finish. Then at 400
    > > meters, disaster - on the verge of the highest
    > > speeds of
    the
    > > race his chain came off again and there was simply no
    > > way he could recover with that short a distance left
    > > and contest the sprint. He basically had to sit up and
    > > roll into the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike
    > > racing..."
    >
    >
    >
    > Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
    > the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
    > Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
    > bad crash.

    Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech Wallone?)
    in 1983 where he was OTF with a good chance to win. If it
    also happened in the 1982 Giro, then he deserved to fall the
    second time. He looked absolutely stunned sitting on the
    ground as the group was bearing down on him. That was one of
    the great cycling photos of the era.

    I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had
    been using a lot of experimental ultra-light (for the
    times) gear and not always the components sold by Campag. A
    lot of that crap was CP (so called "commercially pure")
    titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all that
    are used now) were very hard to come by before the Soviet
    Union imploded.

    Now that I think about it, I think I recall a pedal spindle
    breaking at a critical moment. Is that what happened in the
    Giro? I can still see Larry on the ground with one crank
    sitting there separate from his bike and that was definitely
    not the Giro...

    In 1984 Team Renault got rid of all CP titanium and also
    went to the 400 gram (very robust) Mavic SSC rims. It did
    nothing to slow them down since Fignon stil took the Tour,
    Barteaux had the MJ from the 14th until Larry wanted it,
    Mottet won the Tour of the Future. The only measure of
    failure that year was all about Hinault leaving for the new
    LVC team. Results like that set back weight weenies at least
    a decade or more.

    This is all second hand info other than seeing Larry on the
    ground (I also saw the SSC rims in use for road stages), so
    it may not be totally accurate.
     
  8. On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:00:40 -0700, "Chris"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Time Cop" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >message

    >>
    >> Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    >> getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
    >> the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
    >> Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
    >> bad crash.
    >
    >Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
    >Wallone?) in 1983 where he was OTF with a good chance to
    >win.

    I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version of
    that race..

    JT
     
  9. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their
    obsession with using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-
    bearing, moving parts. I've seen them break so many times, I
    lost count.

    Time Cop <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > wrote:
    > > Team USPS Report from Philly, By Dan Osipow "We went
    > > into the final circuit in perfect position - just off
    > > the front of the peloton, three of our riders right
    > > ahead of Max van Heeswijk in-line. But as they came
    > > down into the final few hundred meters, Max started
    > > having drive-train problems. His chain came off once
    > > and he managed to shift and get it back on, the boys
    > > up front still working to set up him up perfectly for
    > > the sprint finish. Then at 400 meters, disaster - on
    > > the verge of the highest speeds of the race his chain
    > > came off again and there was simply no way he could
    > > recover with that short a distance left and contest
    > > the sprint. He basically had to sit up and roll into
    > > the finish - oh-so-close, but that's bike racing..."
    >
    >
    >
    > Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
    > the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
    > Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
    > bad crash.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
     
  10. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, kaiser
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Oh, I remember so many people who crashed due to their
    > obsession with using Campy titanium parts on crucial load-
    > bearing, moving parts. I've seen them break so many times,
    > I lost count.

    Nothing stronger than drilled out Zeus cranks and
    deraillers! I never did perfect my plan for drilled out
    spokes... I blame the lawyers.

    -WG
     
  11. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team had
    > been using a lot of experimental ultra-light (for the
    > times) gear and not always the components sold by Campag.
    > A lot of that crap was CP (so called "commercially pure")
    > titanium and reliable titanium alloys (practically all
    > that are used now) were very hard to come by before the
    > Soviet Union imploded.

    It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made of
    CP. There are a few different grades of it, but none of
    it is all that tough. Once the aerospace industry got
    opened up a bit in the mid to late '80s, a bunch of much
    better varieties of titanium started being used, such as
    6Al4V (which is what almost all Ti components are made of
    now). A lot of titanium does come out of the former
    Soviet area.

    Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if
    not the first) commercially available titanium frames.
    Those were made from CP, but that was just one of the
    problems with them.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Copper will never be gold" Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  12. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article
    > <[email protected]>, "Chris"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I was told that through 1983 the Renault cycling team
    > > had been using a
    lot
    > > of experimental ultra-light (for the times) gear and not
    > > always the components sold by Campag. A lot of that crap
    > > was CP (so called "commercially pure") titanium and
    > > reliable titanium alloys (practically
    all
    > > that are used now) were very hard to come by before the
    > > Soviet Union imploded.
    >
    > It's true that a lot of early Ti components were made
    > of CP. There are
    a
    > few different grades of it, but none of it is all that
    > tough. Once the aerospace industry got opened up a bit in
    > the mid to late '80s, a bunch of much better varieties of
    > titanium started being used, such as 6Al4V (which is what
    > almost all Ti components are made of now). A lot of
    > titanium does come out of the former Soviet area.
    >
    > Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of (if
    > not the first) commercially available titanium frames.
    > Those were made from CP, but that was just one of the
    > problems with them.

    Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early Colnago
    ti models failing when he used CP tubes, even after American
    manufacturers were using alloys. I really liked the twin
    down tube design that Colnago had at one point in steel
    alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti frames were known to
    break. A lot of folks must have assumed Colnago would use
    the same alloy that all of the US producers were using.

    For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in the
    US but now CP ti is gone from cycling as far as I can tell.

    >
    > --
    > tanx, Howard
    >
    > "Copper will never be gold" Shellac
    >
    > remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  13. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:00:40 -0700, "Chris"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Time Cop" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > >message
    >
    > >>
    > >> Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > >> getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me of
    > >> the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo Super
    > >> Record titanium bottom bracket gave out, resulting in a
    > >> bad crash.
    > >
    > >Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
    > >Wallone?) in 1983
    where
    > >he was OTF with a good chance to win.
    >
    > I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version
    > of that race..
    >
    > JT

    The weather was nice like late spring but you may be right.
    Can anyone confirm the Giro incident?
     
  14. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:YOURhoward-
    > [email protected]

    > > Remember the Teledyne Titan frame? That was one of
    > > (if not the first) commercially available titanium
    > > frames. Those were made from CP, but that was just
    > > one of the problems with them.
    >
    > Yup, I remember all of that. I also remember early
    > Colnago ti models failing when he used CP tubes, even
    > after American manufacturers were using alloys. I really
    > liked the twin down tube design that Colnago had at one
    > point in steel alloy, carbon fiber and CP ti. The ti
    > frames were known to break. A lot of folks must have
    > assumed Colnago would use the same alloy that all of the
    > US producers were using.

    I have a mid '90s Colnago BiTitan. I do know that a bunch
    of those broke, but mine's still going. I gotta say, it
    is one creaky frame. It certainly isn't any stiffer than
    anything else on the market (that was the selling point
    of the twin tubes - ha!) and probably most carbon frames
    are stiffer and ride nicer.

    > For a while, the only alloy ti frames were produced in
    > the US but now CP ti is gone from cycling as far as I
    > can tell.

    And that's a good thing. I sure make a lot of parts out
    of it at work sometimes. I'd much rather run 6-4.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Copper will never be gold" Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  15. Brian Roth

    Brian Roth Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote
    > in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:00:40 -0700, "Chris"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >"Time Cop" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > > >message
    >
    > > >>
    > > >> Sounds like a certain equipment manufacturer might be
    > > >> getting a phone call about their product. Reminds me
    > > >> of the 1982 Giro when Laurent Fignon's Campagnolo
    > > >> Super Record titanium bottom bracket gave out,
    > > >> resulting in a bad crash.
    > > >
    > > >Wrong race. That was a northern classic (GW? Flech
    > > >Wallone?) in 1983
    > where
    > > >he was OTF with a good chance to win.
    > >
    > > I'm pretty sure it was Blois-Chaville or another version
    > > of that race..
    > >
    > > JT
    >
    > The weather was nice like late spring but you may be
    > right. Can anyone confirm the Giro incident?

    JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original
    poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened with about 20
    K to finish.
     
  16. Brian Roth

    Brian Roth Guest

    [email protected] (brian roth) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    >
    > JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The original
    > poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened with about
    > 20 K to finish.

    I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can host
    it.
     
  17. "brian roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (brian roth) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > >
    > > JFT is correct in that it was Blois Chaville. The
    > > original poster had the correct year, 1982. It happened
    > > with about 20 K to finish.
    >
    >
    >
    > I've got a photo of the above incident, if anyone can
    > host it.

    Someone posted a link to it a year or so ago. I tried
    googling, but didn't find it.

    I did find this crazy thing, though:

    /www.zientzia.net/informazioa/elhuyar/1994/82/images/A82027-
    e.jpg
     
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