Ergonomics and finding a better bike... help...

[Preston Crawford]

On 2006-05-01, Mike Kruger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Preston Crawford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Just wanted to solicit some advice. The last year or so I've started to
>> experience lower back pain here and there. I've been re-fit on my
>> current road bike, a heavily modified Trek 1000. This is the one where
>> they had to put in a quill stem on a model that usually takes a
>> threadless head. It was innovative and did the job, but with the back
>> problems lingering and with some thumb and wrist issues (light carpal
>> tunnel and tendonitis of the thumbs) I'm starting to wonder if there
>> might be a better cycling solution.
>>
>> I (if you don't remember or know me) mainly cycle commute. I bike about
>> 15 miles a day. I used to bike about 35 miles a day back when I was 26.
>> Now I'm 31. Now I know there are lots of things probably going on.
>> Everything from the ergonomics of my workstation at work to other
>> activities. I know this and, believe me, I'm working on these areas as
>> well. However, I thought it might also be worth asking about my biking
>> situation as well.
>>
>> For what it's worth. I ride mostly in the hoods or on the top bar of my
>> road bike. I never get into the drops. It's too far to stretch without
>> causing major back problems these days. So I mostly ride in the hoods.
>> On one hand (no pun intended) I can see how that might cause some
>> problems with regards to my wrists and my thumb. On the other hand, I
>> can see how a flat bar might be a problem as well, since then my wrists
>> would be turned at an angle. I also wonder about a more naturally
>> upright bike like a touring bike or a mountain bike. But then I worry
>> about the handle bars again.
>>
>> I guess the bottom line is that it would be nice to find the best bike,
>> that to do long distances comfortable and at a decent clip (i.e. no 3
>> speed comfort banana bikes), but yet be kinder to my ailments.
>>
>> For the record, cycling doesn't seem to aggravate either ailment alone.
>> These exist with or without cycling. Meaning if I take a break I will
>> still have back pain or hand pain. And sometimes when I bike the back
>> pain gets better (although the hoods do seem to cause the thumb pain to
>> get worse).
>>
>> So what would be the optimal solution? And I know this is subjective,
>> but I want to keep biking and I want to do so with less frequent pain.
>> Any suggestions about a bike that might be a better fit would be
>> appreciated.
>>
> Back pain and wrist/hand/carpal problems. You have 2 of the 3 reasons people
> try recumbents.

*shivers*



> In my experience, a flat bar is harder on the hands, but then they are my
> hands and so this doesn't necessarily indicate how they would work for you.

I figured as much, but that's why I'm asking.

> If you are riding uniformly on the hoods becuse it's too far to get into the
> drops -- that suggests your handlebar is still too low.

I would agree with that.

Preston

 

[Marz]

Preston Crawford wrote:

> I do get treated for this. I think part of the problem is I DON'T act
> like I'm crippled. I keep cycling, programming, etc. through all the
> pain. I do get my workstation taken care of. I wear braces when I work
> and other times. In the end, though, the damage is real. The pain is
> real. And I do have to mitigate it in whatever ways I can.
>
> Preston

If it is work that is crippling you then you've got to act now,
otherwise you'll be out of work and worse not be able to ride. Working
for a software company myself I spend 8 hours a day in front of 4
22inch screens. My company makes sure my desk is the right height, that
my seat fits me, my mouse fits my hand and that my screens are at eye
level. I get up every 20 minutes to get more water/coffee/juice and
I've learnt to be almost ambedextrous with a mouse. I have mates who
can't hold a pencil without tears in their eyes and one who now can't
work at all. I get the odd twinge in my fore arm and I know what it is,
my escape plan is promotion. Even though I'd prefer to stay technical,
a more team lead type job would mean less keyboard time and more
meeting time :|

Question, when you type do you allow the base of your palms to rest on
the desk/keyboard or do you support your hands from you elbows and
'float' your fingers across the keys?

One more, when you sit up straight and look forward, are you looking
over you screen or at the top third of the display?

Laters,

Marz

 

[HughMann]

Think that you probably have a combination of causes for your problems.

Poor abdominal strength allowing upper body weight to slump forward onto the hands.

Stem seems to have had work, you dont give distances for extension or rise. Perhaps one of those adjustable MTB stems is worth a look.

Saddle not been mentioned. Check fore-aft position. With your long body having the saddle too far to rear could throw weight onto hands.

Twist the handlebars back slightly so that hoods are closer reach. Try better bar tape or BarPhat.

You will never be totally free of some discomfort but should not have ongoing pain.

If you have done all that and still no improvement then the bike is a lemon. You need a bike that fits and not the one where the sales person wants to sweep the floor.

My 2 cents.

Hugh

 

[Booker C. Bense]

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In article <[email protected]>,
HughMann <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>You will never be totally free of some discomfort but should not have
>ongoing pain.
>

_ Huh? Bike riding should not be uncomfortable PERIOD! Granted
there will be some "growing pains" so to speak if you haven't
done much riding, but chronic discomfort means something is wrong
about the fit of the bike FOR YOU! If you can't ride 3 or 4 hours
( or whatever your fitness allows) w/o discomfort then something
needs to be fixed. It takes time, money and persistance along
with a healthy disregard for what's "fashionable", but anybody
physically fit enough to ride for an hour or more should be able
to do it with no discomfort at all.

_ Booker C. Bense

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[Booker C. Bense]

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In article <[email protected]>,
Preston Crawford <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2006-05-01, Booker C Bense <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> _ If you can't ride comfortably in the drops, then the bike
>> doesn't fit no matter what. IMHO, if you can't ride in the
>> drops then there is very little point in riding a drop bar
>> bike.
>
>Well, yes and no. I get your point. For me, though I never bought a road
>bike for the drops. My initial draw was this. I didn't have much money
>so it was a quick way to get the wheel size I wanted coupled with
>handlebars that seemed more appropriate. And by that I mean my wrists at
>a straight angle as opposed to being turned 90 degrees inward. So that's
>part of what I'm trying to suss out here. If I had a bike that was the
>right height and fit what would be better for me? Riding in the hoods or
>riding on a flat handlebar. When I bought the bike I would have said the
>hoods. But right now there's a lot of pressure on that joint (where the
>thumb meets the hand. So now I'm not so sure. I liked those handlebars
>that someone else showed where they swooped back old school style with
>the shifters on the end. Something tells me, though, that I couldn't get
>those on a bike with any kind of chance at going over 10mph.
>

Sure you can. You should check out some of the stuff at
www.rivbike.com. Some of the stuff there is just silly,
but they have lot's of good advice about getting a bike
that really fits and is comfortable. If putting
Albatross bars on your Trek 1000 is what it takes,
then that's what you should do.

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16122.html

It would be a simple and relatively cheap experiment, ( well
cheaper than a brand new bike.. )

Personally, I would be very wary of the
"fit guy" if they are using some sort of measure and
calculate system. Those systems just look scientific w/no
real science behind them and they are much more focused
on racers and getting a "racy" postion. There is no
magic formula for bike fit. Check out Sheldon Brown's
site for much useful information and Peter White's
as well.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Speed on the bike has very little to due with the bike
until you start getting into racing speeds. And that will
never happen until you get a bike that's comfortable to
ride. A bike is just the transmissiom, if you put a go-cart
engine in a Ferrari, all you have is a really expensive go-cart.

Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to
just walk into J.Random Bike Shop and buy exactly what works
for you. The trend is starting to change some, but most road
bikes are simply racing bikes w/cheaper components and very
poor choices for people that simply want to ride for fitness.

_ Booker C. Bense


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[gds]

Preston Crawford wrote:
> On 2006-05-01, Marz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Leo Lichtman wrote:
> >> "Marz" wrote: STFU and go ride. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you're the
> >> same age as my younger brother and he keeps whinging about aches and pains.
> >> (clip)
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> Why so harsh, Marz? If you feel hostility toward your brother, that's
> >> between you and him--why take it out on Preston? I'm 78, and my back
> >> doesn't hurt, but my 78 year old brain can understand that not everyone is
> >> that lucky.
> >
> > Having reread what I wrote and having read like a No1 a-hole; major
> > apologies to the Preston. I guess I'd just come out of the gym and was
> > low on sugars.
> >
> > Laters,
> >
> > Marz
> >
>
> Thanks for standing up for common sense, Leo. As far as you go, Marz....
> Harsh, but no hard feelings. It's the Internet. Not like I haven't
> spouted off and said something I regretted later at one time. So no
> worries.
>
> I do get treated for this. I think part of the problem is I DON'T act
> like I'm crippled. I keep cycling, programming, etc. through all the
> pain. I do get my workstation taken care of. I wear braces when I work
> and other times. In the end, though, the damage is real. The pain is
> real. And I do have to mitigate it in whatever ways I can.
>
> Preston

Apologies in advance if this was suggested upstream but if not:
Why not try aero bars? They take a couple of days to get used to but if
at least some of your riding is not in groups or traffic you will be
able to ride with NO pressure on your hands or wrists. Forget the aero
effects. Many long distance riders use them to simply relieve the
pressures that are bothering you.
PS While racers set up aero bars pretty low to get maximum aero benefit
they can be set up to accomodate your back issues.