Erik Zabel is not welcome on world championship

[cyclingheroes]

I had a weak moment!

Yes sometimes its hard not post sh*t the f**k up etc. etc.

Ok, I gues I jus had a weak moment as well.

 

[Doctor.House]

Yes sometimes its hard not post sh*t the f**k up etc. etc.

Ok, I gues I jus had a weak moment as well.

We have read them.

 

[limerickman]

If the organizations have eliminated Zabel and Valverde, will they allow David Miller to ride? [If he rides the raod championship anyway]

An excellent question!

 

[wolfix]

An excellent question!

This thing really pisses me off...... The World Championship is my favorite race and the honor of wearing the rainbow stripes is high as a honor to me as the yellow. And I have made no secret that Zabel is my favorite rider. And Erik may have had the extra incentive to push him from second to first with the race being held on home soil.....

There are so many wrongs here...If Zabel is not a non starter because of a admittence of a 9 year old doping , then T-M should not be allowed to wear their jerseys in any race in Germany, or even allowed to sponsor a team. {because of the team doping allowed there.]
I am getting so sick of pro cycling.

 

[Doctor.House]

Why? Nothing has changed, just less money now.

Pro cycling has always involved cheating and cover ups.

You wrote so yourself Wolf.

 

[fscyclist]

You are exactly right about the UCI. And i understand why race promoters are taking things in their own hands. But I think with the latest revelations with Discovery and UNiBet we see a sport that has sponsors scared that they will meet the criteria of the UCI and pay for the privledge of racing, then have race promoters eliminate star riders on assumptions. I think we are all in agreement most riders dope at the upper level. But to eliminate a rider such as Contador on a "assumption" of a individual in Germany that he was involved in the lab won't do anyone any good.

The race does not belong to the country where it is being run. The race belongs to the UCI and hosted by the country. If they want to host such a event, then they need to follow UCI rules. This is where the UCI needs to step in and defend it's riders. Cycling will never recover with inconsistent rules.


Unibet revelations today show me how cycling can screw a sponsor. A country needs to accept all of the UCI riders with a ProTour sanction.

Cycling is in disarry......

I'm with you on most of this and agree that Zabel should race. The problem arises when promoters fork out money to host a race, they should have some control over who is allowed entry.

I'm also amazed at the random and arbitrary nature of these sanctions. This is what is killing cycling. Yes, I think the top riders all dope, so why did Ras lose his tour? He never failed a drug test, which seems to be the gold standard in most people's minds. It was completely unfair, especially when the eventual winner has at least as much egg on his face. So we have Riis banned from being a DS, Zabel banned from Worlds, but we have 50-100 Puerto riders still going strong and numerous past dopers like Aldag, the entire former Festina squad and others still very involved in the sport.

 

[limerickman]

I'm with you on most of this and agree that Zabel should race. The problem arises when promoters fork out money to host a race, they should have some control over who is allowed entry.

I'm also amazed at the random and arbitrary nature of these sanctions. This is what is killing cycling. Yes, I think the top riders all dope, so why did Ras lose his tour? He never failed a drug test, which seems to be the gold standard in most people's minds. It was completely unfair, especially when the eventual winner has at least as much egg on his face. So we have Riis banned from being a DS, Zabel banned from Worlds, but we have 50-100 Puerto riders still going strong and numerous past dopers like Aldag, the entire former Festina squad and others still very involved in the sport.

Nice summary.

 

[wolfix]

I'm with you on most of this and agree that Zabel should race. The problem arises when promoters fork out money to host a race, they should have some control over who is allowed entry.

The one race I think the promoters should accept all UCI riders is the World's. This race is not held at the same venue year after year as the other ProTour races are. The race is usually a one shot deal for the race promoter. They need to be able to deal with the possible bad along with the good.
Most ProTour races are owned by the race promoters. The UCI World's is not. The host city is to provide the venue in which to promote the city, not dictae the terms of the race.
This is where the UCI needs to stand up and be assertive.
What happens in the future if a host city decides that they do not want Spanish riders? Don't laugh, I remember when the TDF did not make Italians welcome. And vice versa for the Giro. Look at the late 70's and early 80's. There were a few years when I think there were no Italians in the TDF. The Italians did not come north to race and they were not welcomed with open arms......

The Worlds' is a unique race. It needs to be moved back to late August and placed in the priority it deserves.

 

[cyclingheroes]

There weren't a lot Italians in this years Tour. I don't have the exact figueres but I remember I was told it was a 15 year low of Italians on the starting list.

The one race I think the promoters should accept all UCI riders is the World's. This race is not held at the same venue year after year as the other ProTour races are. The race is usually a one shot deal for the race promoter. They need to be able to deal with the possible bad along with the good.
Most ProTour races are owned by the race promoters. The UCI World's is not. The host city is to provide the venue in which to promote the city, not dictae the terms of the race.
This is where the UCI needs to stand up and be assertive.
What happens in the future if a host city decides that they do not want Spanish riders? Don't laugh, I remember when the TDF did not make Italians welcome. And vice versa for the Giro. Look at the late 70's and early 80's. There were a few years when I think there were no Italians in the TDF. The Italians did not come north to race and they were not welcomed with open arms......

The Worlds' is a unique race. It needs to be moved back to late August and placed in the priority it deserves.

 

[adamastor]

If the organizations have eliminated Zabel and Valverde, will they allow David Miller to ride? [If he rides the raod championship anyway]

Millar is back from 2-year ban. Big difference. He paid for what he did. Zabel didn't. I read on this thread, that inconsistent decisions are killing cycling.

Well, this is a problematic decision to take: most Germans, including organisers, would like to have Zabel on board, but they want to avoid sending the wrong message across. So this PR stunts weeks before the Worlds will help organisers get the opinion of the public. They want to avoid a scandal cvaused by having taken the WRONG decision.

I'm in favour of Zabel riding, because I am in favour of all dopers having admitted to it. And I believe, that those who admitted it will change something in this sports (poisitively, I mean).

 

[limerickman]

Millar is back from 2-year ban. Big difference. He paid for what he did. Zabel didn't. I read on this thread, that inconsistent decisions are killing cycling.

Well, this is a problematic decision to take: most Germans, including organisers, would like to have Zabel on board, but they want to avoid sending the wrong message across. So this PR stunts weeks before the Worlds will help organisers get the opinion of the public. They want to avoid a scandal cvaused by having taken the WRONG decision.

I'm in favour of Zabel riding, because I am in favour of all dopers having admitted to it. And I believe, that those who admitted it will change something in this sports (poisitively, I mean).

You make a very valid point in respect of David Millar : he has served his ban and that ban was for doping.

I have a lot of sympathy for Zabel : he admitted that he doped 11 years ago
and that admission was made by him of his own free will.
That has got to be a positive (excuse the pun).

 

[cyclingheroes]

I am sorry to dissapoint you Lim, but I don't believe it was his free will...

 

[limerickman]

I am sorry to dissapoint you Lim, but I don't believe it was his free will...

OK CH - you're obviously better placed than me with regard to this matter.

I don't know the manoeverings that may be going on at TMO.
perhaps circumstances forced him to confess???

 

[yeloooooo]

You know i think this is a perfect answer to those people who critisise Vaughters for not coming clean, and question his motives for Slipstream.

Apparantly anyone who admits to past doping offences has no future in cycling at all. If Vaughters had come clean slipstream would never have got off the ground. No sponsor would want to touch them, and judging by this, competitions wouldn't be to keen on them either.

I'm of the opinion that although Vaughters probably did dope, he was not to keen on it, and was pushed into it by his team. I believe he is morally against doping and is fighting it in the most effective way he can.

To lift a quote from a previous post of mine on the slipstream thread, i think this illustrates my point.

here is a quote by Emma O'reilly who was head soigner at USPS in the late 90's. From "L.A confidential" by David Walsh. Note that in much of the book O'Reilly accuses Lance Armstrong of participating in a doping medical programme run by USPS.

For O'Reilly, Vaughters' lively intelligence was more of a handicap in the European peloton. "Jonathon was a talented rider, there's no doubt about it. He was just too intelligent for his environment. He didn't give his body up to doctors like most others did. He didn't go to the truck for products. He asked questions about the things they gave him. He wanted to know if they were necessary and legal. Of course he took things to help him recover but he wanted to know exactly what they were and deep down he wasn't into that sort of culture. Jonathan didn't have the mentality of a European cyclist. On the other hand, he has a sports manager, Bruyneel, whose point of view was simple: he should ride, ride and ride some more. He has less esteem for riders who were not prepared to make great sacrifices for the sport. Jonathan wasn't like that - not like Lance, "poor Jonathan" we would moan to each other. I was the *****, who was nasty to Johan's poor wife and he was the bad rider who didnt do all he should to climb higher. I thought he was really unique in a positive way."

Vaughter's professional background is full of irony. Genetically, Jonathon has a high red blood cell count. The average count for an athlete practicing an endurance sport is 41 or 42. Vaughters' was 48 or 49. His father's was similiar.... When he was cycling as an amateur on the American continent, Vaughters' natural red cell count was an advantage to him because his blood could circulate more oxygen. However he lost this advantage when he became a professional cyclist competing with riders who increased their red cell count artifically with EPO. If Vaughters had wanted to cheat during his career, which was not the case, his high red blood cell count would have been a disadvantage, becuase even if he had taken very small quantities of EPO, his cell count would have exceeded the 50% threshold laid down by the official cycling authorities.

Anyway, sorry to hijack this thread somewhat, but i really think this situation with Zabel perfectly illustrates why Vaughters would be acting in the way he is. I believe teams like slipstream HAVE to be the future of cycling, or the sport will be doomed.

<DISCLAIMER> THIS IS POST IS NOT ABOUT LANCE ARMSTRONG, PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS THREAD DESCEND INTO ANOTHER DEBATE ABOUT HIM. I MENTION HIS NAME AS REFERENCE ONLY.

 

[cyclingheroes]

OK CH - you're obviously better placed than me with regard to this matter.

I don't know the manoeverings that may be going on at TMO.
perhaps circumstances forced him to confess???

Don't understand me wrong, I really like Zabel but his confession was part of a serie. Finally even Bjarne confessed. I don't know who was putting pressure on them (but I do have a gues) but they were at least indirectly forced to confes.

 

[limerickman]

Don't understand me wrong, I really like Zabel but his confession was part of a serie. Finally even Bjarne confessed. I don't know who was putting pressure on them (but I do have a gues) but they were at least indirectly forced to confes.

No problem :
as I say you've probably got more insight than most regarding the TMO affair.
I took his confession at face value...

 

[Flyer]

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/14082007/3/organisers-give-zabel-cold-shoulder-world-road-cycling-championships.html

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