Essiac Discussion Board and recipe (repost due to server error)

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Kevan Wynn, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. Kevan Wynn

    Kevan Wynn Guest

    Once upon a time, I ran a little informational site I called
    Greenrey's Study.

    The year was 1998. The topic was essiac tea, and my mother's
    use of it four years earlier to fight cancer.

    Over time, the little informational site came to be known as
    Aaron's essiac Pages, and included an account of my family's
    experience with essiac; the recipe my mother used; a history
    of the tea based upon limited information available at the
    time; and something else...

    The little informational site, which was entirely non-
    commercial, had a bulletin board. I called it the "essiac
    Discussion Board", making fun of the arguments at the time
    over Resperin Corp.'s Essiac (TM) and generic forms of the
    tea, simply called "essiac."

    When I first started that little site, it was pretty much
    the only NON-COMMERCIAL essiac site on the Web. Now there
    are dozens. In the beginning, recipes were hard to come by.
    Today, there are several variations. Information regarding
    the history of essiac was sketchy and incomplete. Now
    google.com gives us instant access to numerous accounts of
    the Canadian nurse, Rene Caisse.

    After a while, I felt it was time to close up shop. I felt
    that since there was a virtual explosion of essiac
    information online, my site had served its purpose, and I
    could move on to other, less painful, endeavors. I assure
    you, running a bulletin board dedicated to an "unproved"
    treatment - often the last resort of desperate human beings
    - proved emotionally trying. People I never met, but grew
    quite fond of, died. Even though they all pursued different
    regimens, and I read many anecdotal accounts of improved
    appetites, less pain, even spontaneous remission... I
    couldn't get past the ones who died. I felt that I had let
    them down somehow.

    But it's not about me. I should never have let it be about
    my feelings.

    The bottom line is, I still have faith in the recipe my
    mother used.

    She is, after all, alive today - ten years later - and
    has never had a remission. When she was preparing to die,
    she never used any treatment other than a home-brew
    version of essiac.

    And so I have made the decision to republish the recipe she
    used. Out of respect for the privacy of my family, I will
    not, however, be republishing the rest of the information I
    used to maintain.

    But there is one more thing... Though I can never hope to
    recreate what made the original "essiac Discussion Board"
    unique, I have recreated, at least, the template for it. The
    new Essiac Discussion Board is now available on my home
    page. And I have opened it by reposting a recent medical
    "hit piece", a Reuters Health article that condemns essiac
    in passing ,without ever detailing why.

    I know that essiac has both supporters and critics,
    believers and debunkers. I hope that my site can prove
    useful to those researching and discussing the tea honestly.

    Regards,

    Kevan Wynn http://la.znet.com/~kwynn/ Still non-commercial
    after all these years...
     
    Tags:


  2. J

    J Guest

    Kevan Wynn wrote:

    > Once upon a time, I ran a little informational site I
    > called Greenrey's Study.
    >
    > The year was 1998.

    uh... "Greenrey" or Aaron K. Wynn-Hinman It was 1996
    http://tinyurl.com/ywo2n [email protected] -or-
    [email protected] and http://tinyurl.com/2xl5m
    (oh and it had advertising banners on it according to your
    own posts).

    > The topic was essiac tea, and my mother's use of it four
    > years earlier to fight cancer.

    And of all the people who I saw who had exchanges with you,
    only Steve Dunn asked the right questions and can be found
    (by me) alive today and his questions were: where are the
    clinical trials, was your mother's cancer biopsied, did she
    have surgery or conventional therapy. You did not reply
    then. No evidence anywhere in Google that you ever replied
    to those questions.

    And here's what Steve says today.
    http://www.cancerguide.org/essiac.html While there is
    probably little harm in using Essiac tea, no one should rely
    on Essiac as a primary therapy for cancer - the evidence
    just isn't there. "

    So the harm is waste of time, waste of money and false hope.

    Please read http://www.cancersupporters.com/asc/charter.html
    What is strictly prohibited on this newsgroup? Encouraging
    patients to stop or avoid conventional proven cancer
    treatment in favor of unconventional and unproven treatment
    is inappropriate. Advocating treatments that have been
    disproven scientifically or have not successfully completed
    all phases of a clinical trial is inappropriate.
    Inappropriate crossposts Making outrageous or unsupported
    claims is prohibited.

    By posting to this group, you acknowledge having read the
    FAQs document, and agree to adhere to it. You further agree
    that failure to abide is grounds for members of
    alt.support.cancer to blacklist you and file formal
    complaints with your ISP or web host. Members of
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    abide by the FAQs will be prosecuted fully at their
    discretion. By posting to this group, you agree to hold
    alt.support.cancer members harmless for prosecution of those
    complaints.

    You must abide by your Internet Service Provider's
    Acceptable Use Policy to be a member in good standing of
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    violation of our policies and opens you to prosecution by
    the group.

    Usenet/ISP AUP commercial posting violations will be
    prosecuted, one occurrence will be considered an offense. "

    Do not post here anymore.

    J - alt.support.cancer

    (removed s.m.d.c.
     
  3. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    "J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Kevan Wynn wrote:
    >
    > > Once upon a time, I ran a little informational site I
    > > called Greenrey's Study.
    > >
    > > The year was 1998.
    >
    > uh... "Greenrey" or Aaron K. Wynn-Hinman It was 1996
    > http://tinyurl.com/ywo2n [email protected] -or-
    > [email protected] and
    > http://tinyurl.com/2xl5m (oh and it had advertising
    > banners on it according to your own posts).
    >
    > > The topic was essiac tea, and my mother's use of it four
    > > years earlier to fight cancer.
    >
    > And of all the people who I saw who had exchanges with
    > you, only Steve
    Dunn
    > asked the right questions and can be found (by me) alive
    > today and his questions were: where are the clinical
    > trials, was your mother's cancer biopsied, did she have
    > surgery or conventional therapy. You did not reply then.
    > No evidence anywhere in Google that you ever replied to
    > those questions.
    >
    > And here's what Steve says today.
    > http://www.cancerguide.org/essiac.html While there is
    > probably little harm in using Essiac tea, no one should
    rely
    > on Essiac as a primary therapy for cancer - the evidence
    > just isn't there.
    "

    I enjoyed reading Steve's site. He is one of the few lay
    persons who is able to see clearly through all the confusion
    that the question "does this cancer treatment work or not?"
    can raise.

    Illustrating the complexities of such questions, I should
    point out that there is no certainty that the interleukin-2
    was responsible for for even Steve Dunn's recovery from very
    advanced renal cancer with presumed lung secondaries. I
    recently came across a study showing a spontaneous remission
    rate of six per cent in such cases after nephrectomy alone,
    and this was his only other treatment. Here is the study.
    You will observe that the six per cent remission rate after
    treatment of the primary tumour occurred in those using a
    dummy treatment (placebo). Does this mean cancers can
    respond to placebo? No. It is was known early last century
    that kidney cancer metastases occasionally regressed after
    removal of the cancerous kidney, an effect not noted with
    any other kind of cancer.

    1: BJU Int. 2000 Oct; 86(6): 613-8. Related Articles, Links

    Placebo-associated remissions in a multicentre, randomized,
    double-blind trial of interferon gamma-1b for the treatment
    of metastatic renal cell carcinoma. The Canadian Urologic
    Oncology Group.

    Elhilali MM, Gleave M, Fradet Y, Davis I, Venner P, Saad F,
    Klotz L, Moore R, Ernst S, Paton V.

    Department of Urology at the Royal Victoria Hospital
    (MUHC), Canada.

    OBJECTIVE: To determine the validity of using an
    historical maximum spontaneous regression rate (reportedly
    0-1.1% in those with lung metastases after nephrectomy) in
    clinical trials of treatments for patients with metastatic
    renal cell carcinoma (RCC), as the eligibility criteria
    for most studies will select patients with better
    performance status (and thus excluding those who are
    unlikely to respond) and more modern staging methods would
    potentially reduce the number of false-positives. PATIENTS
    AND METHODS: A multicentre randomized,placebo-controlled,
    double-blind trial was recently completed in which 197
    patients with metastatic RCC from 17 study centres across
    Canada were randomized to receive placebo or recombinant
    interferon gamma-1b (60 microg/m2) subcutaneously once
    every 7 days until disease progression. All tumour
    responses were validated by an independent response
    committee unaware of the treatment. RESULTS: The median
    (95% confidence interval) overall response rate (complete,
    CR, and partial, PR) for those on interferon-gamma was 4
    (1.4-11.5)% and for those on placebo was
    1 (1. 5-13.2)% (P = 0.75). In the six patients who were
    receiving placebo the CR and PR (three each) was
    considered to represent spontaneous remission. Of
    these six patients (aged 44-64 years) five had
    undergone nephrectomy, one a tumour embolization,
    four had clear cell carcinoma and one an
    adenocarcinoma, and all had regression of lung and/or
    lymph node metastases. CONCLUSION: The lack of
    efficacy of interferon-gamma in this trial underlines
    the importance of continued research to identify
    alternative therapeutic agents or combinations of
    agents in phase II studies. However, the threshold
    response rate for initiating phase III trials should
    be increased to 18% in the phase II trials, i.e.
    three times the response rate on placebo.

    Peter Moran
     
  4. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    "J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Kevan Wynn wrote:
    >
    > > Once upon a time, I ran a little informational site I
    > > called Greenrey's Study.
    > >
    > > The year was 1998.
    >
    > uh... "Greenrey" or Aaron K. Wynn-Hinman It was 1996
    > http://tinyurl.com/ywo2n [email protected] -or-
    > [email protected] and
    > http://tinyurl.com/2xl5m (oh and it had advertising
    > banners on it according to your own posts).
    >
    > > The topic was essiac tea, and my mother's use of it four
    > > years earlier to fight cancer.
    >
    > And of all the people who I saw who had exchanges with
    > you, only Steve
    Dunn
    > asked the right questions and can be found (by me) alive
    > today and his questions were: where are the clinical
    > trials, was your mother's cancer biopsied, did she have
    > surgery or conventional therapy. You did not reply then.
    > No evidence anywhere in Google that you ever replied to
    > those questions.
    >
    > And here's what Steve says today.
    > http://www.cancerguide.org/essiac.html While there is
    > probably little harm in using Essiac tea, no one should
    rely
    > on Essiac as a primary therapy for cancer - the evidence
    > just isn't there.
    "

    I enjoyed reading Steve's site. He is one of the few lay
    persons who is able to see clearly through all the confusion
    that the question "does this cancer treatment work or not?"
    can raise.

    Illustrating the complexities of such questions, I should
    point out that there is no certainty that the interleukin-2
    was responsible for for even Steve Dunn's recovery from very
    advanced renal cancer with presumed lung secondaries. I
    recently came across a study showing a spontaneous remission
    rate of six per cent in such cases after nephrectomy alone,
    and this was his only other treatment. Here is the study.
    You will observe that the six per cent remission rate after
    treatment of the primary tumour occurred in those using a
    dummy treatment (placebo). Does this mean cancers can
    respond to placebo? No. It is was known early last century
    that kidney cancer metastases occasionally regressed after
    removal of the cancerous kidney, an effect not noted with
    any other kind of cancer.

    1: BJU Int. 2000 Oct; 86(6): 613-8. Related Articles, Links

    Placebo-associated remissions in a multicentre, randomized,
    double-blind trial of interferon gamma-1b for the treatment
    of metastatic renal cell carcinoma. The Canadian Urologic
    Oncology Group.

    Elhilali MM, Gleave M, Fradet Y, Davis I, Venner P, Saad F,
    Klotz L, Moore R, Ernst S, Paton V.

    Department of Urology at the Royal Victoria Hospital
    (MUHC), Canada.

    OBJECTIVE: To determine the validity of using an
    historical maximum spontaneous regression rate (reportedly
    0-1.1% in those with lung metastases after nephrectomy) in
    clinical trials of treatments for patients with metastatic
    renal cell carcinoma (RCC), as the eligibility criteria
    for most studies will select patients with better
    performance status (and thus excluding those who are
    unlikely to respond) and more modern staging methods would
    potentially reduce the number of false-positives. PATIENTS
    AND METHODS: A multicentre randomized,placebo-controlled,
    double-blind trial was recently completed in which 197
    patients with metastatic RCC from 17 study centres across
    Canada were randomized to receive placebo or recombinant
    interferon gamma-1b (60 microg/m2) subcutaneously once
    every 7 days until disease progression. All tumour
    responses were validated by an independent response
    committee unaware of the treatment. RESULTS: The median
    (95% confidence interval) overall response rate (complete,
    CR, and partial, PR) for those on interferon-gamma was 4
    (1.4-11.5)% and for those on placebo was
    1 (1. 5-13.2)% (P = 0.75). In the six patients who were
    receiving placebo the CR and PR (three each) was
    considered to represent spontaneous remission. Of
    these six patients (aged 44-64 years) five had
    undergone nephrectomy, one a tumour embolization,
    four had clear cell carcinoma and one an
    adenocarcinoma, and all had regression of lung and/or
    lymph node metastases. CONCLUSION: The lack of
    efficacy of interferon-gamma in this trial underlines
    the importance of continued research to identify
    alternative therapeutic agents or combinations of
    agents in phase II studies. However, the threshold
    response rate for initiating phase III trials should
    be increased to 18% in the phase II trials, i.e.
    three times the response rate on placebo.

    Peter Moran
     
  5. J

    J Guest

    Peter Moran wrote:

    > "J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > And here's what Steve says today.
    > > http://www.cancerguide.org/essiac.html While there is
    > > probably little harm in using Essiac tea, no one should
    > > rely on Essiac as a primary therapy for cancer - the
    > > evidence just isn't there."
    >
    > I enjoyed reading Steve's site. He is one of the few lay
    > persons who is able to see clearly through all the
    > confusion that the question "does this cancer treatment
    > work or not?" can raise.

    Yet he's got unproven therapies on his web page (but he
    states that he never used any in his story or here
    http://tinyurl.com/3yne9 Exchange here with Dr. Roda).
    http://www.cancerguide.org/alternative.html - have you
    looked at those?

    > Illustrating the complexities of such questions, I should
    > point out that there is no certainty that the interleukin-
    > 2 was responsible for for even Steve Dunn's recovery from
    > very advanced renal cancer with presumed lung secondaries.
    > I recently came across a study showing a spontaneous
    > remission rate of six per cent in such cases after
    > nephrectomy alone, and this was his only other treatment.
    > Here is the study. You will observe that the six per cent
    > remission rate after treatment of the primary tumour
    > occurred in those using a dummy treatment (placebo). Does
    > this mean cancers can respond to placebo? No. It is was
    > known early last century that kidney cancer metastases
    > occasionally regressed

    Well, surely he knew, since he'd reaserched so much, but
    likely did not want to take the chance.

    > after removal of the cancerous kidney, an effect not noted
    > with any other kind of cancer.
    >
    > 1: BJU Int. 2000 Oct; 86(6): 613-8. Related Articles,
    > Links
    >
    > Placebo-associated remissions in a multicentre,
    > randomized, double-blind trial of interferon gamma-1b for
    > the treatment of metastatic renal cell carcinoma. The
    > Canadian Urologic Oncology Group. <snipped the rest - I
    > emailed it to him, but I don't expet an answer and I don't
    > expect that would have swayed him into taking a chance>

    http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON0279c.html
    (inhalation?) Fifteen percent of the patients showed a
    partial response (tumor shrinkage), and 4 percent showed a
    complete response (no sign of tumor)--but 4 percent died
    from the treatment."

    I wish he would come back to newsgroups. So many questions.
    I'm happy to hear that he's still doing well.

    Thanks for that Peter and sorry it's taken so long, if it's
    not my computer, it's server errors here (also) J
     
  6. Doc

    Doc Guest

    J wrote:
    > Peter Moran wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >>
    >>>And here's what Steve says today.
    >>>http://www.cancerguide.org/essiac.html While there is
    >>>probably little harm in using Essiac tea, no one should
    >>>rely on Essiac as a primary therapy for cancer - the
    >>>evidence just isn't there."
    >>
    >>I enjoyed reading Steve's site. He is one of the few lay
    >>persons who is able to see clearly through all the
    >>confusion that the question "does this cancer treatment
    >>work or not?" can raise.
    >
    >
    > Yet he's got unproven therapies on his web page (but he
    > states that he never used any in his story or here
    > http://tinyurl.com/3yne9 Exchange here with Dr. Roda).
    > http://www.cancerguide.org/alternative.html - have you
    > looked at those?
    >
    >
    >>Illustrating the complexities of such questions, I should
    >>point out that there is no certainty that the interleukin-
    >>2 was responsible for for even Steve Dunn's recovery from
    >>very advanced renal cancer with presumed lung secondaries.
    >>I recently came across a study showing a spontaneous
    >>remission rate of six per cent in such cases after
    >>nephrectomy alone, and this was his only other treatment.
    >>Here is the study. You will observe that the six per cent
    >>remission rate after treatment of the primary tumour
    >>occurred in those using a dummy treatment (placebo). Does
    >>this mean cancers can respond to placebo? No. It is was
    >>known early last century that kidney cancer metastases
    >>occasionally regressed
    >
    >
    > Well, surely he knew, since he'd reaserched so much, but
    > likely did not want to take the chance.
    >
    >
    >>after removal of the cancerous kidney, an effect not noted
    >>with any other kind of cancer.
    >>
    >>1: BJU Int. 2000 Oct; 86(6): 613-8. Related Articles,
    >> Links
    >>
    >>Placebo-associated remissions in a multicentre,
    >>randomized, double-blind trial of interferon gamma-1b for
    >>the treatment of metastatic renal cell carcinoma. The
    >>Canadian Urologic Oncology Group. <snipped the rest - I
    >>emailed it to him, but I don't expet an answer and I don't
    >>expect that would have swayed him into taking a chance>
    >
    >
    > http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON0279c.html
    > (inhalation?) Fifteen percent of the patients showed a
    > partial response (tumor shrinkage), and 4 percent showed a
    > complete response (no sign of tumor)--but 4 percent died
    > from the treatment."
    >
    > I wish he would come back to newsgroups. So many
    > questions. I'm happy to hear that he's still doing well.
    >
    > Thanks for that Peter and sorry it's taken so long, if
    > it's not my computer, it's server errors here (also) J
    >
    >
    I would like to know J how much money is the medical
    industry paying you to post misinformation at
    alt.support.cancer??????

    http://www.medicaltruth.com/

    http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/CentnerAbortion.htm

    http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/politics-of-
    cancer.htm

    http://www.medicaltruth.com/
     
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