Evangelical Disconnect

Discussion in 'Your Bloody Soap Box' started by bkaapcke, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. bkaapcke

    bkaapcke New Member

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    Some friends and I were talking about how we don't really follow all of the rules, and in fact, selectively choose which ones to ignore. One of the participants was a bible thumper of the Evanglical stripe. His comment was; "I'm still a sinner, but I know I am forgiven". Whooaa. This just about knocked me over, because there it was. The total disconnect from reality that characterizes many christians.

    This is why they can keep a straight face while participating in the African Genocide Project. They know in advance that they won't go to hell. So they don't care if there are unanticipated negative consequences arising from their actions. They can lay that off on the unfortunate victims. It's the mother of all cop-outs. Think about it, these people are really dangerous. bk
     
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  2. janiejones

    janiejones New Member

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    I agree with you.
     
  3. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    It's a feature of the reformed churches, that there is no clear policy/line with regard to teaching/rules.
    Almost all of the reformed churches differ : look at the issue of women priests for example.
    The Anglicans have split because of the issue of women priests, for example, whereas other reformed churches will not allow the ordination of women in their churches.
    Dogma in these churches is increasingly a reference point for debate, rather than an expression of belief/faith.

    From my limited knowledge of the Evangelical movement, these systems of beliefs are even more diverse.
    What may be a tenet of faith in one strain of the movement, may not even apply in another part of that same broad movement.

    A lot of the monotheistic systems of belief (Christianity/Judaism/Islam) have different strands of emphasis within their own faith.
    Sunni/Shia in Islam for example.
    However the diversity of views within the broad "Protestant/Evangelical" strain of Christianity is more diverse than within either Judaism or Islam.

    It's an interesting discussion - I watched an interview recently where a Catholic theologian made (what i thought) was an excellent point.
    If Islam, for example, had a Holy See, which set down clear and unambiguous teachings based on one interpretation of that faith, it might help to solve problems besetting the world.
    For example, if an Islamic Holy See stated unequivocally that the Koran teaches that it is wrong to kill others, this might take away support for those who use Islam to commit murder.
    (The theologian in question wasn't singling out Islam, by the way).
    The theologian suggested that it was this movement away from the Holy See by Martin Luther and others in the 15th century, which has led to the existence and growth of the Protestant/Evangelical movement.
     
  4. bkaapcke

    bkaapcke New Member

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    What is becoming quite clear to me is that christlianity is for people who can't handle the ugly reality of death. Many cling to, nay, psychologically need, a socially approved cop-out to live by. The notion that "one is saved" apparently fills the bill quite well.

    The tough part comes when the rest of us have to live with their often dysfunctional responses to social problems. Not to mention their blindness to any problems within their own house. We are getting real tired of this. bk
     
  5. Cycler6n

    Cycler6n New Member

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    I know that I'm saved because of the blood of Jesus Christ, and just because I am saved doesn't mean that I'm going to stop sinning overnight, I'm still human, do I want to sin, no, do I want to stop, yes, but I can't, I'm still human, God knows that. Nobodys perfect on earth, but that isn't an excuse to sin. Was the fellow you were talking about saying its okay to sin? If so that is wrong. I'm not saved just because I'm afraid of death, no, I want to be saved so I sin less with God's help. And no, I can't do "what i want now because I'll be forgiven no matter what", it says right in the Bible that you'll reep what you sough (sorry for mispelling:p) meaning pretty much that what goes around comes around.
     
  6. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Christianity isn't the only religion which holds that there is an afterlife.
    Judaism/Islam hold that there is an afterlife.
     
  7. bkaapcke

    bkaapcke New Member

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    There you have it, the 'knowing'. The disconnect, the permission to turn a blind eye to the unintended consequences of ones actions. Nevermind that 'abstinence only' sex education leads to more pregnancies and abortions. Nevermind that telling Africans that condom use is a sin or that the condoms are tainted with Aids. Why, it only leads to more AIDS. It only leads to the earthly punishment for sin that is the true, unstated goal, of much christilan action. Yet, all undertaken under the ruse of 'doing gods work'.

    Really, it's time y'all got off everyones sex practices. First, it's none of your business, and second, most christians don't practice what the leaders preach. So, there is no credibility anyway.

    It is time christians admitted to being part of the problem, because they are. But as long as they subscribe to the cop-out of already bieng saved, that won't happen. bk
     
  8. janiejones

    janiejones New Member

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    I noted that I agree with you - but I want to make it clear that I agree with you to the extent that certain attitudes like the one you mention can be dangerous - but those attitudes are no different from your above quote - discrimination is discrimination.

    How are Christians doing any worse in the world than your blatant discrimination of those who hold a particular belief, the world is messed up by intolerance and you are doing the same as those you complain about - would you say the same thing about Muslims or Jews, probably not.
     
  9. Billsworld

    Billsworld New Member

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    Ahh you almost came clean....This is a pro gay anti Christian rant
     
  10. bkaapcke

    bkaapcke New Member

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    Limerickman, I know most, if not all other religions have some kind of afterlife. You couldn't sell a religion without one. However, militant christianity is what's going on around here and I was just taken aback by the "knowing I'm forgiven" approach.
    They are smug in their 'knowing' yet I find that if you press on their beliefs pretty hard, they don't add up. bk
     
  11. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Bk, I take the point that you're making.

    If that is the case - that people are doing what they're doing on the basis that they'll get forgiven in the end, because they recant - those people aren't following the tenets of the faith that they profess to believe in.

    Forgiveness isn't solely premised upon a person saying that they're sorry.
    They have to be sincerely sorry for what they have done.

    And I'd go further : if they were truly sorry, their consciences would have "kicked in" as soon as they started to behave in the way, that they have.
    They would have desisted in acting that way, if they were truly sorry.

    Just my two cents worth.
     
  12. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Militant christianity? Where? I live near the Bible Belt and I do not see any. I do see them becoming involved in political actions to have their canidate represent their way of thinking.

    I have been around many "born again" individuals and I do not see that "smugness" as even a common trait.


    What I do see is a very well organized group of people who work at achieving the lifestyle they want. No different then a handful of gays who run around with their strange sense of pride.
     
  13. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Flip on Faux News sometime and watch Bush and his crusade against Islam.

    It is very much different. Evangelical christians define "achieving the lifestyle they want" as restricting the rights of others to achieve the lifestyles they want.

    In the latest news, conservative loons in West Virginia are attempting to ban Pat Conroy's books.
     
  14. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Bro/Wolf : you've both got me stumped.
    What does "achieve a lifetsyle that they want", mean??

    I've never heard of this.
     
  15. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    As all people Lim. People want to find a niche that suits what they are or want to be.
    We all want to belong and are all afraid of failure,whether we admit it or not.
    If we subscribe to a belief or position that is suited to your social patterns and others that hold similar interest then we have come closer to achieving our goals and can get assurances to diminishl some of the fears of failure.
    I still don't understand why some want to bash what they don't understand.
    I don't like NASCAR but I am not on a crusade to ridicule it.
     
  16. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    JH : thanks.
    I think I understand what you're saying.

    I've never heard of that concept "achieve a lifetsyle that they want".
    We don't have that sort of concept over here.
    Some believe in religion/God etc.
    Others don't believe in religion/God etc.
    The ones who do believe in God - don't tend to try to impose their view on those who don't.

    In fact it's the opposite over here - it's the non-believers who seek to impose their view that all religion of any kind is beyond the pale.
     
  17. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    Most people here just go about their business and hold to beliefs peacefully. It just that you only hear about the radicals and extremists.
     
  18. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    hear from radicals and extremists at both end of the spectrum, no doubt.

    currently over here, the naysayers are shouting more loudly.
    But that can change when the other side find their voice too.
     
  19. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Exactly.......
     
  20. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Our naysayers are shouting also........ But we do have a radical christians portion of America too......

    Our politically left minded people assume you are a "shout from the mountain top" born again fundamentalist christian if you vote Republican.
    Most conservatives in America do not base their lives on religious beliefs. Conservatives are basically people who run their lives based on economic principles. They recognize that throwing money at failure is a waste of time. They tend to be accountable for their own actions and ask the same of others.
    Big difference between conservatives and fundamentalists......


    They really do not understand the workings of America when they pronounce such things. America is a country based on capitolism. Not on religion. Most capitolists are republican simply because they do not want government involvment in their lives. And it used to be the Republican Party wanted smaller government. And hopefully it returns to that........
    I do not want a country based on social programs making inefficient individuals out of people.
     
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