Evangelical Disconnect



jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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bkaapcke said:
Beyond the disconnect with reality, it appears we have a desperate need for, a clinging to, belief in god for it's own sake. It is so entrenched that it cannot be dislodged, now matter how much reality and logic is used. My estimate puts it on the level of an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

The believers won't let go (Obsessive-Compulsive) and it leads them to engage with reality using other worldly assumptions (Disorder). Interestingly, like the rest of humanity, their beliefs blind them to their own evil.

This leads me to conclude that this belief doesn't improve anything at all. If we could just get them to see this, it might ilmprove the situation we all live in. But, no, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Really; What good has christlianity done for the world? On balance, less than none. So, we are stuck with all these christians. Too bad we can't teach them any real morals. bk

I am a willing student.
What great sacrifice or sacrifices have you made in the name of humanity this past week that you may give me direction from?
My mind is as a blank page ready to be consumed with enlightenment.
No cheap shots on the blank page, btw.
 

fscyclist

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Jul 30, 2006
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jhuskey said:
I am a willing student.
What great sacrifice or sacrifices have you made in the name of humanity this past week that you may give me direction from?
My mind is as a blank page ready to be consumed with enlightenment.
No cheap shots on the blank page, btw.
I watched football and drank beer yesterday (and today). If that's not a sacrifice, I don't know what is. With all this talk of helping humanity, I may have to make this sacrifice a daily occurence.
 

Billsworld

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Sep 6, 2005
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bkaapcke said:
Beyond the disconnect with reality, it appears we have a desperate need for, a clinging to, belief in god for it's own sake. It is so entrenched that it cannot be dislodged, now matter how much reality and logic is used. My estimate puts it on the level of an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

The believers won't let go (Obsessive-Compulsive) and it leads them to engage with reality using other worldly assumptions (Disorder). Interestingly, like the rest of humanity, their beliefs blind them to their own evil.

This leads me to conclude that this belief doesn't improve anything at all. If we could just get them to see this, it might ilmprove the situation we all live in. But, no, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Really; What good has christlianity done for the world? On balance, less than none. So, we are stuck with all these christians. Too bad we can't teach them any real morals. bk
This post is argumentative and nothing else. I can give you millions examples of people that benifit all over the world from works and money given to help the poor. Food, clothing, schools and time. My Church on its own , supports a village in Africa. It built its school and continues to fund the school . It send materialssto help them grow food. bla bla bla..All private money and time. what does your group do?
 

jhuskey

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fscyclist said:
I watched football and drank beer yesterday (and today). If that's not a sacrifice, I don't know what is. With all this talk of helping humanity, I may have to make this sacrifice a daily occurence.


You da man! May I be a deciple?
I might suggest having a symbolic sacrifical lamb symbolized as pizza,ribs,shrimp,chips and a keg.
But you don't got to be a fanatic so we will will skip the Nachos. :D
 

fscyclist

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jhuskey said:
You da man! May I be a deciple?
I might suggest having a symbolic sacrifical lamb symbolized as pizza,ribs,shrimp,chips and a keg.
But you don't got to be a fanatic so we will will skip the Nachos. :D
Absolutely! Open to all comers. All I ask is you donate 10% of your income to the beer fund.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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nns1400 said:
I accept what it says is true....Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth....

Which is to say that God existed first and He is the cause of the universe. In the past, scientists thought the universe was eternal, therefore the Bible was incorrect. Since the big bang theory....it has been proven that the universe had a beginning, and therefore a cause.

As for the "literal" interpretation of the six day account...entire books have been written explaining how the original Hebrew can most definitely mean that "days" could be periods of time. So you can take still take it literally, with a bit more wisdom than saying six days equals six 24 hour days.

People who claim the earth is 6000 years old, and that this is the literal interpretation of the Bible, base that on taking genealogies listed in Genesis and extrapolating how much time was necessary to get to now. When all Biblical exegesis can show that genealogies listed in the Bible are to convey certain important pieces of information...not to be used as some kind of calendar...some generations are typically left out. And that is making a broad assumption anyway, as no one knows when said genealogies began, etc.

It's ridiculous. The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is...period. It doesn't matter. It's not a science book. The purpose of the Bible is to explain God's dealings with mankind. (I'm so sure Moses is going to record astrophysics for ancient peoples.)


Agreed - to a point.

My point was that certain sects take the literal meaning of every single word in the Bible to derive arguments which fly in the face of scientific fact.

Those sects intepretation to derive the age of the earth for example, as being 6,000 years old is patent nonesense.
The earth is 1.4 billions years old.
Yet these interpreters take the Bible - which you have said is not a scientific book and which I agree with - to derive the "fact" that the earth is 6,000 years old!

These sects take a whole series of Biblical phrases and statements and deliberately misinterprete those words to make many ludicrous statements, like the earth being 6,000 years old, to fit their own misguided, warped agendas.
And gullible people continue to listen and accept the words of those clowns.
 

nns1400

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fscyclist said:
Absolutely! Open to all comers. All I ask is you donate 10% of your income to the beer fund.
In my experience, most men are willing to donate a far greater percentage of their income to that fund....
 

fscyclist

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nns1400 said:
In my experience, most men are willing to donate a far greater percentage of their income to that fund....
Exactly. Men are much more charitable than women, who want us to spend our money on luxuries such as food (not to include nachos, pizza and wings), clothing and shelter.
 

bkaapcke

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May 3, 2006
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All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians. The balance is against you, Bill. I'm just not going to overlook all of it like many would like. This would apparently include you.

Oh, and one more thing, Bill. Is your church feeding those Africans christianity along with all that charity? If so, the charity doesn't count for much. bk
 

nns1400

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bkaapcke said:
All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians. The balance is against you, Bill. I'm just not going to overlook all of it like many would like. This would apparently include you.

Oh, and one more thing, Bill. Is your church feeding those Africans christianity along with all that charity? If so, the charity doesn't count for much. bk
unless you're starving and homeless...
 

nns1400

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bkaapcke said:
All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians. The balance is against you, Bill. I'm just not going to overlook all of it like many would like. This would apparently include you.

Oh, and one more thing, Bill. Is your church feeding those Africans christianity along with all that charity? If so, the charity doesn't count for much. bk
Also, they might be sharing Christianity with them, but it's their choice to accept it or not, bk. They aren't withholding food until baptism. :rolleyes: What do you care if Africans become Christians anyway? Or not.

And, as jhuskey asked you before....what is it exactly you're doing to help Africa? Besides criticizing people who do, that is.
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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fscyclist said:
Absolutely! Open to all comers. All I ask is you donate 10% of your income to the beer fund.

I may be due a refund! :D
My advise is to not dwell on the things that you cannot change but rather to
indulge yourself in those things that make a positive difference, if only a small way.
 

fscyclist

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jhuskey said:
I may be due a refund! :D
My advise is to not dwell on the things that you cannot change but rather to
indulge yourself in those things that make a positive difference, if only a small way.
Yes! We will change the world one pint at a time. BTW...no refunds. If you don't drink your share that's your problem.
 

bkaapcke

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May 3, 2006
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I wonder if "sharing their christianity" includes advising the Africans to avoid using condoms "because it's a sin", or outright lying about the condoms being contaminated with AIDS. Many christians in Africa are sharing their faith this way. bk
 

Crankyfeet

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limerickman said:
Agreed - to a point.

My point was that certain sects take the literal meaning of every single word in the Bible to derive arguments which fly in the face of scientific fact.

Those sects intepretation to derive the age of the earth for example, as being 6,000 years old is patent nonesense.
The earth is 1.4 billions years old.
Yet these interpreters take the Bible - which you have said is not a scientific book and which I agree with - to derive the "fact" that the earth is 6,000 years old!

These sects take a whole series of Biblical phrases and statements and deliberately misinterprete those words to make many ludicrous statements, like the earth being 6,000 years old, to fit their own misguided, warped agendas.
And gullible people continue to listen and accept the words of those clowns.
I agree that it is pretty dumb to espouse the belief that the earth is 6,000 or 11,000 years old. It contradicts the obvious evidence from thousands of different sources.

But the problem for proponents of "the Bible is the word of God" thesis, is that if one starts arguing that some verses/books of the Bible aren't literal, but are symbolic, then one is on a slippery slope. One can interpret nearly anything from the Bible if one can substitute symbolism, allegory, and metaphor when it is convenient to do so.
 

Crankyfeet

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bkaapcke said:
All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians. The balance is against you, Bill. I'm just not going to overlook all of it like many would like. This would apparently include you.

Oh, and one more thing, Bill. Is your church feeding those Africans christianity along with all that charity? If so, the charity doesn't count for much. bk
It may be a deluded belief, and there may have been some horrendous acts done in the past in the name of any religion, and it may be a powderkeg ready to come together as one and say for instance that the world is about to end, but let's not twist facts and say that not much good is done from Christians.

Christian charity and giving is enormous and most Christains are very sympathetic to the plight of those less fortunate. It is the Christian ethos.

It is wrong to cynically undermine the good that is done under organized Christianity, just to support your argument that it is bad. Just MHO.
 

Bro Deal

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bkaapcke said:
All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians.
I think you need to generalize "christians" to organized religion. Religions that do not have rigid hierarchical structures or rely on individual members to do their own interpretation of beliefs seem a lot more tolerant.
 

Crankyfeet

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Bro Deal said:
I think you need to generalize "christians" to organized religion. Religions that do not have rigid hierarchical structures or rely on individual members to do their own interpretation of beliefs seem a lot more tolerant.
Yes...Hinduism for one is a non-hierarchical religion. They accept that you can reach God through many paths. In fact the Hindu religion is not really one religion. Its just a collective term, that the British chose, to categorize the many similar, but varied beliefs, of the Indian "natives" that they encountered whilst India was a British colony.
 

Billsworld

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bkaapcke said:
All the benefits of that christlian charity are swallowed up by the horrendous evils done by christlians. The balance is against you, Bill. I'm just not going to overlook all of it like many would like. This would apparently include you.

Oh, and one more thing, Bill. Is your church feeding those Africans christianity along with all that charity? If so, the charity doesn't count for much. bk
The relationship with them is strengthened by the African pastor that was already there. We have nothing to do with how they worship. I will stick to my guns and say that the only way we all can get along is with a very limited government.
 

Billsworld

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bkaapcke said:
I wonder if "sharing their christianity" includes advising the Africans to avoid using condoms "because it's a sin", or outright lying about the condoms being contaminated with AIDS. Many christians in Africa are sharing their faith this way. bk
My church has no opinion on the use of condoms or any other birth controll. (I myself am going to get snipped :( ). Outside the Catholic church, I dont know any that do.