Evidence for God

[Crankyfeet]

And Another Question(s) to the faithful:

Did Noah manage to collect all the known species on earth including Australian marsupials, Brazilian amphibians, and Antarctic bacteria, or was the Great Flood just concentrated in Mesopotamia, where God's sinful people lived?

And while on the subject of Noah: Where did all the water come from for the flood? And where did it go? If it was able to deposit the ark on a mountainside, and kill all the species roaming the land, then it must have covered the whole earth with about a mile deep of water. Mmmm.... And if you say that God can do anything....Why did he go through the rigmorale of a flood? Why not just instantly kill everyone and start again? At least that would have saved 99.9999% of the innocent animals that painfully perished by drowning.

Come to think of it....why didn't the people just climb up the mountain as the floodwaters rose? Mmmm......

As stupid as the story seems to appear to a discerning observer, God obviously had his reasons to go through this illogical (and in the scope of collecting all the animals of the world - impossible at Noah's capability level) process.

 

[stevebaby]

Question to the faithful:

God created man in his own image, right. So heaven must be similar to earth in that there are physical objects that you need to walk on (ie require legs) and that you need to pick up (ie require hands and arms). So when a young baby/child dies, do they instantly become an adult form of themselves in heaven, and similarly, when a 100 year old person dies, do they revert to their 25 year old body and mind? Or does everyone get the same body they died with in heaven? Or does everyone get the exact same body?

That would really bum me out if I had to keep even the fit version of me for eternity.

If you get cremated, do you come back as a pile of ash? And if you get blown up do you come back in bits and pieces?

 

[donrhummy]

Hate to be the Wittgenstein here but I think before you can have a discussion about whether god exists or not (and whether there's evidence for it) you need to define the terms/tools you're working with.

1. God
2. Existence
3. What it means to "know" something (i.e. as it pertains to evidence of something)

 

[Cycler6n]

And Another Question(s) to the faithful:

Did Noah manage to collect all the known species on earth including Australian marsupials, Brazilian amphibians, and Antarctic bacteria, or was the Great Flood just concentrated in Mesopotamia, where God's sinful people lived?

And while on the subject of Noah: Where did all the water come from for the flood? And where did it go? If it was able to deposit the ark on a mountainside, and kill all the species roaming the land, then it must have covered the whole earth with about a mile deep of water. Mmmm.... And if you say that God can do anything....Why did he go through the rigmorale of a flood? Why not just instantly kill everyone and start again? At least that would have saved 99.9999% of the innocent animals that painfully perished by drowning.

Come to think of it....why didn't the people just climb up the mountain as the floodwaters rose? Mmmm......

As stupid as the story seems to appear to a discerning observer, God obviously had his reasons to go through this illogical (and in the scope of collecting all the animals of the world - impossible at Noah's capability level) process.

Noah didn't collect all the animals 2 by 2 by himself, of coarse God helped him with that, the water didn't come by itself, God brought the water because He's all powerful. Why God didn't destroy all those creatures instantly, i don't know, but perhaps He wanted us to ave the story in the Bible for lessons to learn, such as, Noah was looked at as a crazy person for building an arc in the middle of no where, with no lakes around, but did it because God told him too, that shows that no matter what happens stick with God, not people, or that we all go through trials. and there are many more things to be learned in that story than that one. Or perhaps God did that to test Noah and make him a stronger person spiritually, or those reasons and many more, or not those reasons but others. How do you know that those animals died painfully, God could have let them die instantly. God also had the flood waters go above the mountains, so climbing up a mountain would have done nothing, you still would have gotten flooded out. also God is a mysterious God, He doesn't tell us everything for our own good, and other reasons that I and everybody else don't know. He doesn't tell us all His reasons for evrything.

 

[Crankyfeet]

So it rained for forty days and nights and the water covered all the mountains. R-i-g-h-t...........

Did he make the story up to teach us a lesson. Cause its impossible for Noah to have collected all the world's animals. I-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e. Unless of course Noah was a God or God delivered all the animals to the ark.

But I suppose faith is all about not questioning anything right. I mean, God might get angry at you.

Or it was made up by man to produce followers like yourself. To teach them not to question God or his actions. Irony.

It is difficult to get people to follow. But if you can get them to believe that a God said it, and them to believe the consequences of not following God, then you have your followers. It has been this way throughout the history of all tribes of men.

Noah didn't collect all the animals 2 by 2 by himself, of coarse God helped him with that, the water didn't come by itself, God brought the water because He's all powerful. Why God didn't destroy all those creatures instantly, i don't know, but perhaps He wanted us to ave the story in the Bible for lessons to learn, such as, Noah was looked at as a crazy person for building an arc in the middle of no where, with no lakes around, but did it because God told him too, that shows that no matter what happens stick with God, not people, or that we all go through trials. and there are many more things to be learned in that story than that one. Or perhaps God did that to test Noah and make him a stronger person spiritually, or those reasons and many more, or not those reasons but others. How do you know that those animals died painfully, God could have let them die instantly. God also had the flood waters go above the mountains, so climbing up a mountain would have done nothing, you still would have gotten flooded out. also God is a mysterious God, He doesn't tell us everything for our own good, and other reasons that I and everybody else don't know. He doesn't tell us all His reasons for evrything.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Good point. Even in the sub-set of US Christianity, unbeknownst to most Christians, there are different images/definitions of God. A kind benevolent God, A wrathful parental Old Testament style God, a formless spirit life-force type God to name but three.

Hate to be the Wittgenstein here but I think before you can have a discussion about whether god exists or not (and whether there's evidence for it) you need to define the terms/tools you're working with.

1. God
2. Existence
3. What it means to "know" something (i.e. as it pertains to evidence of something)

 

[Cycler6n]

So it rained for forty days and nights and the water covered all the mountains. R-i-g-h-t...........

Did he make the story up to teach us a lesson. Cause its impossible for Noah to have collected all the world's animals. I-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e. Unless of course Noah was a God or God delivered all the animals to the ark.

But I suppose faith is all about not questioning anything right. I mean, God might get angry at you.

Or it was made up by man to produce followers like yourself. To teach them not to question God or his actions. Irony.

It is difficult to get people to follow. But if you can get them to believe that a God said it, and them to believe the consequences of not following God, then you have your followers. It has been this way throughout the history of all tribes of men.

God did make it rain for fourty days and nights, and God did deliver the animals to Noah, and questioning your faith is a good thing, God doesn't get angry at you for it. It's good to think if your following the right thing, and its okay to question why God did something, not if He did the right thing, but why He did it, i do that all the time.

 

[Bro Deal]

So it rained for forty days and nights and the water covered all the mountains. R-i-g-h-t...........

I don't see what your problem with this is, dude. The sea level only has to rise 29,017 feet. So in forty days and forty nights it has to rain 362 inches (~30 feet/10 meters) per hour, or six inches per minute. It would require a mere five to six times the total amount of water currently on earth. This massive rainfall obviously explains the Grand Canyon.

 

[Bro Deal]

...and questioning your faith is a good thing, God doesn't get angry at you for it.

He just sends you to hell after you die. That will teach them to think for themselves.

 

[Crankyfeet]

That's only if you question it but then get the wrong answer. It's a tough school.

He just sends you to hell after you die. That will teach them to think for themselves.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Thanks Bro Deal. Now it makes sense. I just feel sorry for all of mankind who died and went to hell in that flood. They didn't even get to read the Noah story first - to learn what happens to naughty people. Or was that in the days when God talked directly to us like he did to Noah. If god talked to me I would have listened. That would have cured my atheism disease instantly. Why doesn't he do that now? Did we **** him off that much then by giving him the middle finger? Now we're all descended from Noah (it's a wonder we all look as good as we do and have even numbers of limbs in the right place!), and we're still pissin' him off. He must have designed us wrong or something.

I don't see what your problem with this is, dude. The sea level only has to rise 29,017 feet. So in forty days and forty nights it has to rain 362 inches (~30 feet/10 meters) per hour, or six inches per minute. It would require a mere five to six times the total amount of water currently on earth. This massive rainfall obviously explains the Grand Canyon.

 

[tt1106]

Maybe God is talking to you, but you aren't listening. Ridicule all you want, let's say you are right and there is no God, the end result, is I spend my time with christians living a lifestyle serving other people, feeding the poor and homeless, lovign mankind, believing that when I die, I will be rewarded richly in Heaven, while you believe you are going to live out eternity in a box, six feet under. I'll take the blue pill.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Maybe God is talking to you, but you aren't listening. Ridicule all you want, let's say you are right and there is no God, the end result, is I spend my time with christians living a lifestyle serving other people, feeding the poor and homeless, lovign mankind, believing that when I die, I will be rewarded richly in Heaven, while you believe you are going to live out eternity in a box, six feet under. I'll take the blue pill.

So why give up on believing in Santa Claus? That would have been a nice belief to keep.

You get to the crux of the issue. People who don't believe in god or the gods that others believe in are not trying to be smart or funny. In fact they would love to be able to believe there was a god. Its just that they can't believe in what they judge as a lie. Just like someone trying to convince you that Santa exists, you probably wouldn't (I assume).

Yes it is good that most Christians are selfless and giving to the community. Despite what you may be told from the pulpit, a lot of atheists are selfless and giving to humanity as well. Atheists just don't band with each other and do it under a group banner. And they do it because they think it is right, not because Jesus told them to (though Jesus IMO was a wise and spiritually mature man).

I don't think a non-believer wishes any bad on anyone else. I certainly don't wish any harm to or disdain anyone, whether they're believers or non-believers. But when the world is threatened by the mass mind control of organized religions, and tribes of people willing to die for their beliefs - and to kill others who don't believe, then they feel motivated to show as many people as possible that the Emperor not only doesn't have any clothes, he is a man-made figment of imagination.

The fact that believing in god makes you feel good is the essence of a believer's defense. That and the never divulged fear of reprisal (from God) and social rejection. I certainly don't wish you to give up the happiness you get with other Christians, if you are able to suspend your disbelief. But don't presume that Atheists aren't just as humanistic, moral as any religious person. They just won't kill you in the name of defending their belief in their God.

 

[Crankyfeet]

I spend my time with christians living a lifestyle serving other people, feeding the poor and homeless, loving mankind, believing that when I die, I will be rewarded richly in Heaven.

The mind boggles at the selflessness of Christian charity.

Yes sometimes the truth isn't always a bed of roses. Witness the gazelle caught by the lion. The question is do you seek truth or are you happy to accept a lie if it makes you feel good. And you may be unaware of the full extent of your sacrifice for your belief.

I now understand why so many people are willing to accept political and media spin that appeals to their sense of what feels good, without questioning the truth of these claims. Yes America is the greatest country in the world. Americans are the best people in the world. There is good and there is evil and we'll tell you who is good and who is evil. Does that sound good to you.

I give and support charity for abused children as well. I have given $60 to a homeless guy in a park pushing a shopping trolley who I had a chat with. Myself and my wife give christmas presents to impoverished families. You don't have to be a Christian to be helpful and giving to others, or be expecting to be rewarded in Heaven. The good feelings in the present are joyous enough, just to see the smile on the faces of people of lesser means and their appreciation of human kindness.

 

[limerickman]

The divide in this discussion is irreconcilable, methinks.

 

[Crankyfeet]

The divide in this discussion is irreconcilable, methinks.

Methinks you are right. But maybe the non-believers' taunts are the inner sole still searching for a purpose to life that transcends randomness. Or maybe they just see the emperor has no clothes and feel they can have a positive impact by shouting it out.

Yes, for the religious their faith (IMHO) is proven to them (as truth) by the positive affect it has had in their life. Appealing to reason makes no sense as it asks them to question something that doesn't need questioning. Much like a person with $5 million doesn't need, or want, to question whether he deserves it or not. It would be a backward step (or staircase), spiritually speaking.

This is the new age of Aquarius. When Jupiter aligns with Mars. Peace and love to all mankind.

 

[Bro Deal]

The divide in this discussion is irreconcilable, methinks.

Dang. I was expecting nns1400 to convert me with undeniable proof of god's existence.

 

[Hein-Verbruggen]

Team Vino Astana's Borat said:

The Pope has a nice crib.

Yo, yo, yo. RESPECT!

 

[tt1106]

My friends, I make NO judgements about your activities as an atheist. I fully believe that many if not most atheists are loving, caring people. My pastor would never condemn anyone for not believing in God, although, my faith requires me to point out that the person who does not believe may be going to Hell. Of course God is all powerful and who am I to say when and how he will reveal himself to you.
I simply saying, why is there such venom towards those that believe in Christ?
Would you go to Japan and ridicule the Budhists? Mecca and ridicule the Muslims.
I recognize that there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy in the church community.
I am merely pointing out from within that body the examples are far from the norm.
Again, how you live is up to you, I choose to believe that God has given me a choice in how I die. (spiritual death) And I choose everlasting life with my Lord and Savior.
I'm sure you're all very nice people, When I was an atheist, I was very much involved in Humanism and lived in a way similar to many christians. I simply believe differently now.
I will say that although I cannot provide evidence of God in a video tape, there is volumes of circumstanial evidence of his existence including books written on the possibility of someone surviving the crucifiction. The existence of God and belief in Jesus in a personal thing and must be decided by faith by each individual.

God Bless all the atheists and I'll be praying that the Lord will reveal himself to you before the rapture.

Peace. Out.

 

[Cycler6n]

My friends, I make NO judgements about your activities as an atheist. I fully believe that many if not most atheists are loving, caring people. My pastor would never condemn anyone for not believing in God, although, my faith requires me to point out that the person who does not believe may be going to Hell. Of course God is all powerful and who am I to say when and how he will reveal himself to you.
I simply saying, why is there such venom towards those that believe in Christ?
Would you go to Japan and ridicule the Budhists? Mecca and ridicule the Muslims.
I recognize that there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy in the church community.
I am merely pointing out from within that body the examples are far from the norm.
Again, how you live is up to you, I choose to believe that God has given me a choice in how I die. (spiritual death) And I choose everlasting life with my Lord and Savior.
I'm sure you're all very nice people, When I was an atheist, I was very much involved in Humanism and lived in a way similar to many christians. I simply believe differently now.
I will say that although I cannot provide evidence of God in a video tape, there is volumes of circumstanial evidence of his existence including books written on the possibility of someone surviving the crucifiction. The existence of God and belief in Jesus in a personal thing and must be decided by faith by each individual.

God Bless all the atheists and I'll be praying that the Lord will reveal himself to you before the rapture.

Peace. Out.

couldn't agree more