Evidence for God

[nns1400]

So you are just going to avoid the entire issue of actual christian behavior? Cop out, as it were? Why did I expect this? bk

Would you please use quotes in your replies? Is that directed at me? Or Klodi or azul? Or all of us, and you would like a response from each contestant? I have company coming in a bit and I will have to get back to you over the weekend, and I will answer your question again.

 

[nns1400]

So you are just going to avoid the entire issue of actual christian behavior? Cop out, as it were? Why did I expect this? bk

What do you want me to say?

I've said that when the church became a political institution it totally corrupted the word of God. It forced conversions, thereby making such conversions meaningless.

There is a cultural Christianity which albeit is false moreoften than not. There is false Christianity which involves people pretending to others and perhaps even to themselves somewhat that they are believers but they act contrary to the faith. And there are true believers who are still sinners and sometimes fail miserably. None of this is new. The New Testament addresses all of these issues.

I can't seem to get you to see that you and Jesus are on the same page most of the time!

Perhaps it would surprise you to know that I think the effort to stop gay marriage is ultimately meaningless in a "Christian" culture that gave up on sexual morality a looooong time ago.

Even the modern church has largely given up on the idea of biblical morality for itself -- cohabitation, abuse, raising kids out of wedlock, affairs, divorces, pornography especially. So why shouldn't everyone else do what they want?

But ultimately, Christianity is about the individual. A day will come when no one gets to say, "Well what about so-and-so? They're worse than me."

 

[bkaapcke]

nns1400, all I want is for christians to go to their churches and be christians. What I'm angry about is their ceaseless attempts to inject christianity into law, politics and elections. The notion that America can and should be 'a christian nation' is way out of line. It ignores the reality that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

I understand that it is impossible to have total freedom from religion, and that one has to tolerate 'rubbing up against it' on occaision. OTOH, this 'movement' to virtually take over the government is WAAAAY out of line. Beware, it is the very thing that will corrupt christianity one more time.

Beyond that; Go, have your beliefs and enjoy the company of like minded friends. bk

 

[Bro Deal]

nns1400, all I want is for christians to go to their churches and be christians. What I'm angry about is their ceaseless attempts to inject christianity into law, politics and elections. The notion that America can and should be 'a christian nation' is way out of line. It ignores the reality that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

Uh-oh, now you've done it. We're going to get the crackpots who believe America is the chosen land, that god is on our side, and the founding fathers were hard core christians (we already have one of those here).

So I'll leave these nice quotes to head them off at the pass.

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." -- Thomas Paine

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" -- John Adams

" The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." -- James Madison

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." -- Benjamin Franklin

 

[nns1400]

nns1400, all I want is for christians to go to their churches and be christians. What I'm angry about is their ceaseless attempts to inject christianity into law, politics and elections. The notion that America can and should be 'a christian nation' is way out of line. It ignores the reality that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

I understand that it is impossible to have total freedom from religion, and that one has to tolerate 'rubbing up against it' on occaision. OTOH, this 'movement' to virtually take over the government is WAAAAY out of line. Beware, it is the very thing that will corrupt christianity one more time.

Beyond that; Go, have your beliefs and enjoy the company of like minded friends. bk

So you aren't going to burn my Bible?

And I do beware the government corrupting Christianity. You will find me a vocal opponent of giving federal funds to faithbased charities, and vouchers for parochial schools. Never the twain shall meet, IMO. Let the church do more of "it's thing" (the good parts) and the government way less of it's own.

And I seriously do have company coming -- I'm supposed to be vacuuming.
have a good weekend.

 

[stevebaby]

Women who have a bunch of kids by 5 different men who go on their merry way are more stupid than anyone. The stupidity of the men would only be less than the margin of error in determining it.

In some circumstances...they are gaining a huge advantage genetically. They are acquiring genetic diversity by having multiple partners, thereby hedging their bets, and what their offspring may (or may not, it's all a gamble) lack in quality, they will make up in quantity. From their male partner's viewpoint... he is spreading multiple copies of his genes without any effort or investment apart from some sweet talkin' and a few minutes physical effort.
Work out the cost of sending a kid to Harvard (that being the price of disseminating your genetic heritage) against the cost of just having a few more kids whom someone else will pay to support...tell me, who's stupid?

Perhaps my hubbie is such a fascinating companion that I adore cooking him delicious dinners.

Good to see a woman who understands her place in the great scheme of things.

Yes, a libertarian who thinks that morality is transcendent and not determined BY THE GOVERNMENT. As in being endowed with inalienable rights, instead of being the groveling recipient of what the government chooses to "give" me.

And you clearly haven't seen the results of my ironing! No longer required.

Wear anything for half an hour and the wrinkles will fall out by themselves. Iron it and it will wrinkle in ten minutes. This is known as "The Great Ironing Paradox" which great minds have pondered since time immemorial.
Fortunately, I do not pretend to be a great mind. My wife definitely isn't.

 

[nns1400]

In some circumstances...they are gaining a huge advantage genetically. They are acquiring genetic diversity by having multiple partners, thereby hedging their bets, and what their offspring may (or may not, it's all a gamble) lack in quality, they will make up in quantity. From their male partner's viewpoint... he is spreading multiple copies of his genes without any effort or investment apart from some sweet talkin' and a few minutes physical effort.
Work out the cost of sending a kid to Harvard (that being the price of disseminating your genetic heritage) against the cost of just having a few more kids whom someone else will pay to support...tell me, who's stupid?

Good to see a woman who understands her place in the great scheme of things.

Wear anything for half an hour and the wrinkles will fall out by themselves. Iron it and it will wrinkle in ten minutes. This is known as "The Great Ironing Paradox" which great minds have pondered since time immemorial.
Fortunately, I do not pretend to be a great mind. My wife definitely isn't.

I can bring home the bacon,
Fry it up in a pan,
And never never never let you forget you're a man,
'Cause I'm a wooooooman.....

Sorry, that was after 23 beers, and I'm singin' it for my hubbie.

Anyway, I'll tell you who's stupid -- the taxpayers........

As for the Great Ironing Paradox, you are in fact, a genius.

Nite!

 

[fscyclist]

Who's your daddy?

nns1399

 

[stevebaby]

I used to have an agnostic room mate that I also considered to be my best friend. He F#@%*D my girlfriend, bailed out on two months rent and took most of my stuff.

I don't hold you accountable for that, why would I be accountable for some evil committed by someone long ago that I have no connection with just because he/she pretended to be a Christian?

At some point you're going to have to drain the **** & vinegar and get over it.

You can have your stuff back anytime you want to collect it. Sorry...I spent the rent money on beer and it was money well spent. You'll be pleased to know that I had more than enough fun for both of us.

Actually...you can have the girlfriend back too. She's a dud root. She did yell "Oh God!" a lot, but that got annoying after a while...

 

[stevebaby]

I can bring home the bacon,
Fry it up in a pan,
And never never never let you forget you're a man,
'Cause I'm a wooooooman.....

Sorry, that was after 23 beers, and I'm singin' it for my hubbie.

You won't be coming to any of my parties...

Anyway, I'll tell you who's stupid -- the taxpayers........

As for the Great Ironing Paradox,

you are in fact, a genius.

I concur.

Nite!

 

[stevebaby]

I think Ayn Rand's fault...
QUOTE]... is that she was a really bad writer. Turgid.
The sex scenes in "The Fountainhead" would be funny if they weren't about rape.
A pretty warped psycho-pathology.

 

[bkaapcke]

I do hope stevebaby has some of that beer left. I'm getting thirsty. bk

 

[nns1400]

I think Ayn Rand's fault...
QUOTE]... is that she was a really bad writer. Turgid.
The sex scenes in "The Fountainhead" would be funny if they weren't about rape.
A pretty warped psycho-pathology.

You know, I recently re-read The Fountainhead, and well, it wasn't quite how I remembered it. I wonder now if I read the whole thing when I was younger, because as you say, there were definitely some issues there.

Not my fave anyway -- I like We, The Living and Atlas Shrugged, but A.S. was way too long and the ending sucked as I said before. Better than the Oprah Book Club, anyway.

 

[stevebaby]

I do hope stevebaby has some of that beer left. I'm getting thirsty. bk

Get in quick before the conservatives steal it.
nns1400 has already tried to get 23 bottles out of my cold dead hands.

 

[nns1400]

Get in quick before the conservatives steal it.
nns1400 has already tried to get 23 bottles out of my cold dead hands.

Steal it?! I prefer to think of it as redistribution.

 

[adrian knight]

If you believe morality doesn't exist without there being a God, try reading 'God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins who explains clearly how evolution of the species necessitates a moral code, indeed it is of self-interest to do so. By the way, I am an atheist and have a high moral standard. Do we really need to believe in God to be a good person - emphatically, the answer is no!

There has to be evidence for God for humanity to continue on. Without God , morals and morality do not exsist. And if we do not believe in morality, watch out ..........

More on this later ........ I'm going on a holiday for a few days.......

 

[wolfix]

If you believe morality doesn't exist without there being a God, try reading 'God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins who explains clearly how evolution of the species necessitates a moral code, indeed it is of self-interest to do so. By the way, I am an atheist and have a high moral standard. Do we really need to believe in God to be a good person - emphatically, the answer is no!

Why do you believe a high moral standard is needed if a god is not there. What is wrong with killing someone for no reason if there is no afterlife?

My original post was mis-wrote or misinterpreted. I did not want to convey the meaning that athiests are bad. If we do not have to answer to a higher authority, then what determines "bad "? Is there really damage to the universe if we "kill someone for no reason?"
[Isn't this the way a pyschopath thinks ? I gotta go...The authorities are here to take me away. But I will be out...I mean back soon...... ]

 

[Doctor.House]

Nike is God to the LAF donors.

Why do you believe a high moral standard is needed if a god is not there. What is wrong with killing someone for no reason if there is no afterlife?

My original post was mis-wrote or misinterpreted. I did not want to convey the meaning that athiests are bad. If we do not have to answer to a higher authority, then what determines "bad "? Is there really damage to the universe if we "kill someone for no reason?"
[Isn't this the way a pyschopath thinks ? I gotta go...The authorities are here to take me away. But I will be out...I mean back soon...... ]

 

[nns1400]

If you believe morality doesn't exist without there being a God, try reading 'God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins who explains clearly how evolution of the species necessitates a moral code, indeed it is of self-interest to do so. By the way, I am an atheist and have a high moral standard. Do we really need to believe in God to be a good person - emphatically, the answer is no!

I believe it's called 'Self Delusion.'

If we evolved so highly to create a moral code for self-interest than why haven't we evolved to not need the moral code and just be good instead of lying, committing adultery, murdering, stealing, rebelling against our parents, and coveting others possessions? Not to mention wars, genocide, indifference to suffering, etc that is so characteristic of the history of the world.

How do we even conceive of "good" or "bad" if we're just animals living an accidental existence. This is where stevebaby usually jumps in with his thoughts on how the love of his children (that I assume exist because he knows who The Wiggles are) or family is just biological so we reproduce. As if people who don't love each other can't reproduce.

By the way, it's in my self-interest to procreate over the weekend, but I'm going to need to steal your car to get to the desired genetic material. I'm sure you won't mind - it's not like it's "wrong" or anything.

 

[Doctor.House]

Nope. It is Nike mass marketing

I believe it's called 'Self Delusion.'

If we evolved so highly to create a moral code for self-interest than why haven't we evolved to not need the moral code and just be good instead of lying, committing adultery, murdering, stealing, rebelling against our parents, and coveting others possessions? Not to mention wars, genocide, indifference to suffering, etc that is so characteristic of the history of the world.

How do we even conceive of "good" or "bad" if we're just animals living an accidental existence. This is where stevebaby usually jumps in with his thoughts on how the love of his children (that I assume exist because he knows who The Wiggles are) or family is just biological so we reproduce. As if people who don't love each other can't reproduce.

By the way, it's in my self-interest to procreate over the weekend, but I'm going to need to steal your car to get to the desired genetic material. I'm sure you won't mind - it's not like it's "wrong" or anything.