Evidence overwhelmingly indicates Greg LeMond Doped....



swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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You can say all you want about Lance, but a shot of "vitamin B12" in the 89 Giro does not turn a rider from being a guy being dropped to one that becomes a winner almost overnight. It takes a bit more ASSistance than that. Off the back midway and suffering like a ***** through most of the Giro in June to smashing every mofo in the planet in July. Yeah, go B12! I really liked LeMond but that first long TT in the 89 Tour and the final 20km was unbelievable. More unbelievable than the final TT. Don't rag on me - it was LeMond that said it was B12. Really, it was. The President of Egypt just erected a 4th Great Pyramid!
 

Sandamal

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Jul 17, 2014
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B12?...what about the iron shots? He was anemic at the Giro...iron makes a big difference and yes it will turn things around overnight...or 2 or 3 days as he came in 2nd place in the final time trial in the Giro. He came in 2nd to Lech Piasecki, the best time trialist of that period. Lemond was always a great time trialist.

Please watch the 89 tour again and notice that he didn't smash every body to pieces...he really struggled in that race. He barely won it. That tour was not a 'fast' tour (a lot of the average speed of that tour in slow compared to the EPO days) by any standards. No one knew about micro doping either. The drugs of that time didn't make a racehorse out of a donkey. The best riders didn't take stupid chances...they generally didn't need the 'edge' that those drugs offered. Lemond didn't need them to win in that era.

If you take a step back from all the details...and just look at the guy, the way he behaves and the arc of his career going down as EPO was going up...you realize that he actually might be an clean rider. People who think he cheated are basically Lance lovers who were really fooled and hurt by his deception.
 

slovakguy

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Mar 17, 2006
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Originally Posted by swampy1970

You can say all you want about Lance, but a shot of "vitamin B12" in the 89 Giro does not turn a rider from being a guy being dropped to one that becomes a winner almost overnight.

It takes a bit more ASSistance than that.

Off the back midway and suffering like a ***** through most of the Giro in June to smashing every mofo in the planet in July. Yeah, go B12! I really liked LeMond but that first long TT in the 89 Tour and the final 20km was unbelievable. More unbelievable than the final TT.

Don't rag on me - it was LeMond that said it was B12. Really, it was. The President of Egypt just erected a 4th Great Pyramid!
so we can figure this lemond thing is your granny gossip fence?
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by swampy1970

You can say all you want about Lance, but a shot of "vitamin B12" in the 89 Giro does not turn a rider from being a guy being dropped to one that becomes a winner almost overnight.

It takes a bit more ASSistance than that.

Off the back midway and suffering like a ***** through most of the Giro in June to smashing every mofo in the planet in July. Yeah, go B12! I really liked LeMond but that first long TT in the 89 Tour and the final 20km was unbelievable. More unbelievable than the final TT.

Don't rag on me - it was LeMond that said it was B12. Really, it was. The President of Egypt just erected a 4th Great Pyramid!
You're not convincing anyone. You can't even convince yerself. ****ing moron.

In the meantime.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/long-time-lance-armstrong-backer-greg-lemond-article-1.1887054
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by slovakguy
ta for the link, lim. interesting read. off to find the actual letter.
No hassle.

Another of the Armstrong rats has decided to exit that sinking ship.
 

slovakguy

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Mar 17, 2006
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quite a shocker that someone from the foundation overtly demeans the former figurehead, though. i'm reading confirmation that armstrong's recent activities are not very sincere in his apology tour.
 

steadyeddy53

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Sep 3, 2011
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You guys who were critical of Greg LeMond and supported Lance Armstrong owe Greg a big apology. Yes, Greg got in Lance's face on more than one occasion, and just wouldn't let the issue go. I'll admit that I had some doubts too but Greg LeMond has been vindicated, he was right all along about Lance's doping.

Greg looked at the power outputs and watts per kilogram of the top riders like Marco Pantanni (7.1 watts/kilogram), Flyod Landis (6.7 watts per kilogram) and Lance Armstrong (6.8 watts per kilogram) and knew they weren't possible without pharmaceutical intervention. My hats off to Greg LeMond for staying the course when it seemed everyone doubted him.

Regarding his comeback from anemia, maybe Greg was experiencing pseudo-anemia, a condition where the plasma volume expands by 20% and dilutes the blood, giving the false appearance of anemia because the blood is essentially "watered down". There are just as many red blood cells in the body, but per 100 ml of blood, they have been diluted by the expanded plasma volume, giving the false impression of a low hematocrit, low hemoglobin, and low red cell count. It's well know that hard training causes an expansion of the plasma volume. See the article below.

Sports Anemia
Athletes, especially endurance athletes, tend to have slightly low hemoglobin levels as judged by general population norms. Because a low blood hemoglobin concentration defines anemia, this has been called sports anemia.
But sports anemia is a misnomer because in most such athletes—especially men—the low hemoglobin level is a false anemia. The total volume of red cells in the body is normal, not low. Hemoglobin level is decreased because aerobic exercise expands the baseline plasma volume; this reduces the concentration of red cells, which contain the hemoglobin. In other words, the naturally lower hemoglobin level of an endurance athlete is a dilutional pseudoanemia.
Pseudoanemia is an adaptation to hemoconcentration that occurs during workouts. Vigorous exercise acutely reduces plasma volume by 10-20% in three ways. One, a rise in blood pressure and muscular compression of venules boost the fluid pressure inside the capillaries of the active muscles. Two, generation of lactic acid and other metabolites in muscle increases tissue osmotic pressure. These forces drive plasma fluid, but not red cells, from blood to tissues. Three, some plasma water is lost in sweat.

Ed Price, M.A., C.P.T.
Team Manager
Santa Cruz Wheelmen/Spokesman Bicycles
 

jpwkeeper

Member
Jul 25, 2004
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Have to wonder if this thread is done.

1. We'll never know if Greg doped. USADA is not going to go after him.
2. People who think Greg didn't dope will never think he didn't dope and keep insisting he be apologized to.
3. People who think he doped will never think he didn't and keep insisting that he apologize to us.

There is evidence for and evidence against, and both sets of evidence is weak at best and it's never going to get better outside of someone coming forward with first-hand testimony, and that's just not going to happen (and if it does it'll spawn a new thread).

So I nominate this thread for closure.
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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Completely off topic **** to follow: Yesterday I just started a solo workout after the never-ending monsoons stopped and the roads dried. A couple miles into it I crested the first warmup climb and saw a couple of riders cresting the hill from the opposite side. I flipped a U-turn thinking they were a couple of training buds, but they weren't. One of the riders turned out to be an old friend from another team that used to train with the team I was on back in the mid 1980's. I had not seen him in over 20 years. This guy actually beat Greg Lemond in the A to Z Classic road race. I reminded him of this accomplishment and he smiled a smile that only roadies could understand. So there. Now we know Greg was clean because a lowly Cat. 2 finished ahead of Greg in one Podunk race held in Hicksville, Ohio during Greg's prime. I was there to witness this event and you can take it to the bank...Greg never ever did dope. Fact.
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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limerickman said:
You're not convincing anyone. You can't even convince yerself. ****ing moron. In the meantime. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/long-time-lance-armstrong-backer-greg-lemond-article-1.1887054
Such eloquence from a moderator. Bite me. The facts: -He was riding like **** all year. -He was being dropped on every climb in the Giro. -His soigneur said in an interview that he gave Greg an injection of B12. - Within weeks he took 1.5 minutes out of Delgado in the last 10km of the first long TT of the Tour and finished like he was as fresh as a daisy. - He would later ride to the fastest TT in Tour history. There is no addition on my part to "the facts." You can look all the above up. The fact is that a single B12 shot will not cure anemia induced by a lack of B12. Even a full course of iron and B12 shots will cure anemia so fast that he'd recover during the Giro to podium in the final TT. I was a LeMond fanboy. I had the brancale shoes, look pedals and even a red and white bike a la his botecchia but there comes a time when you gotta wonder what the heck happened.
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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Actually I was a little wrong there. He wasn't riding **** all year, he had been far, far from best form for almost 2.5 years and the suddenly, mid way through a Grand Tour, when the body is supposed to be trashed and Hematocrit levels drop, LeMond amazing bounced back and stuffed Fignon for a minute in the final TT. Of course Fignon won the Giro overall and LeMond trailed in 54 minutes down overall - a result that'd instantly scream that after 2.5 years of mediocrity and plans to retire after the Tour de France, that'd he'd bounce back and mystically ride the fastest ever time trial and win overall. Must go take my vitamin B12 - or was that a code word for Blood - 12 bags of?
 

SC Shout

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Oct 22, 2013
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Originally Posted by jpwkeeper
Have to wonder if this thread is done.

1. We'll never know if Greg doped. USADA is not going to go after him.
2. People who think Greg didn't dope will never think he didn't dope and keep insisting he be apologized to.
3. People who think he doped will never think he didn't and keep insisting that he apologize to us.

There is evidence for and evidence against, and both sets of evidence is weak at best and it's never going to get better outside of someone coming forward with first-hand testimony, and that's just not going to happen (and if it does it'll spawn a new thread).

So I nominate this thread for closure.
I know many people have joined this site just to be able to post in this thread (myself included), why would anyone want to close it. New evidence may come forth. Someone might one day find out who Lemond's doctor was, and real evidence will come out. This thread owns in search engines, if you close it, the traffic will just move to another site. Of course with the way some of the moderators behave here (like calling people "F*ing morons"), maybe they don't want more traffic on this site anyway.
 

Ed Price

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Nov 6, 2012
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This quote is from the article Evidence Overwhelmingly Indicates Greg LeMond Doped, "Lance is able to remain calm and let Greg lose his reputation. Lance keeps the higher ground and doesn't in dignify himself with a fight".

Now we know the real truth, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that Lance Armstrong, not Greg LeMond was guilty of doping. I think the author should write an apology to Greg LeMond and the cycling community.

Ed Price
Team Manager
Santa Cruz County Wheelmen/Spokesman Bicycles
 

parkansas

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Sep 5, 2012
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Yes, there is no evidence LeMond doped. The person starting ths pathetic lie needs needs to to offer a sincere apology, and hang himself in his closet. He is a lying ****. Sad shithead.
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by parkansas

Yes, there is no evidence LeMond doped. The person starting ths pathetic lie needs needs to to offer a sincere apology, and hang himself in his closet. He is a lying ****. Sad shithead.
So how do you go from finishing an hour down in the Giro after two and a half years of riding like **** and with a "few injections of B12" come back to beat the winner of the race and a damned fine TT rider (Fignon) in the final TT by a minute? On what planet does that happen when everyone is on the same playing field? I'm sure the "blood passport" guys would have a field day with that. Recovering from a near career ending anemia DURING a Grand Tour?

... how exactly does that work? Everyone else on the planet sees a drop in HCT. Not LeMond apparently. Everyone questioned the **** outa Armstrong during his "comeback 2.0" with RadioShack when his numbers stayed the same during the Tour - but to get better?

Then just a couple of weeks later you go from finishing an hour down in the Giro, tell your wife you're going to retire after the Tour, and then come back to win the Tour...

... how exactly does that work?

And then to come back during the World Champs and make the guy that trounced him three months earlier, and over the course of 2 weeks put an hour into him, look like a complete idiot by catching him on the final climb and then dropping him like he was a Cat 4 rider. Really? How does that work?

Answers on a postcard to:

It doesn't happen in normal life.
PO Box: I'm guilty as sin.
Gregs House, CA 666

None of it makes any sense.

Going from an hour out the back to trouncing someone - just think about that simple thought. How do you do that in the space of a few days at the end of a Grand Tour?
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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Put your hand on the television! Be HEALED!

I shalt grant thou a downgrade tailwind course and give thou aerobars to smite thine enemies! Now, go forth and I shall cause inflictions and plagues to move upon the face of the Tour!

Doubt not, the power of belief!
 

swampy1970

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2008
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That'd put hand prints on my TV. How can I watch DVR'd recordings of the Giro with handprints on the screen? Jebus... some people I tell ya!

Do you even have TV's in Ohio or do you still have little Billy doing the glove puppet thing in the middle of a cardboard box that has a square hole in the front?
 

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