Exercise



Thad O <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
> time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. Checking
> the situation out, there are no gyms which are
> conveniently located. I live in a group environment, so
> noisy equipment is out, and since I have very very little
> room ( not enough free room to do an exercise video ) a
> lot of equipment is out.

Bike to work! And/or to do errands. That way its easy to fit
in both exercise and a job. If you have access to a pool and
enjoy swimming, swimming can be good for upper body. Both
biking and swimming should be relatively easy on your body
in terms of injuries, if you want to take up something more
impact-oriented like running you'll have to be more careful.

If you have enough room to do situps and pushups those are
good for overall strength. You don't need fancy gym machines
to get fit, and some inexpensive handheld barbells can
provide some resistance in various exercises.

A lot of exercise comes down to just do it. Yes you could
use X equipment or Y equipment etc. but a lot of it just
comes down to personal preference, and often simple and low-
tech will work just as well or better than expensive and high-
tech but it gadgety motivates you then go for it.
 
Thad O wrote:
>
> A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise
> program. The responses ranged from awful to OK with
> nothing really great. ... But before I go on, there were a
> few answers which were... well stupid. I'm tired of the
> people who post things which are wrong ( in this case some
> were plain dangerous ). I guess some guys have to make up
> for other... shortcomings, by pulling a Cliff Claven act.
> ... this advice was especially stupid. ... The other
> stupid claim contends that upper body conditioning is not
> useful in bicycling. ... I bought it from Turin Cycling,
> one of the premier bicycling shops in the Chicagoland
> area. They know how to fit a bike. I've been riding for 30
> years. I know how to fit a bike. ... As for gripping
> handlebars too tightly; I've been cycling for thirty
> years. I know how to grip a bike. Not only do I have all
> my experience ( once again 30 years ), ... In the end, I
> believe that the idiots that put this forward, are just
> plain lazy and don't want to do any upper body
> conditioning. ... My question(s):
>
> I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
> time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. ... Like
> going out and doing a century ( which means 100 miles in
> one day/trip ). ... I gotten to the point where you have a
> rough idea of what I want. Let me now state the main
> question that I am asking.
>
> *** Can people recommend books/web sites/anything else
> that will help me design an exercise plan that meets the
> above criteria, plus a few other things below. ***

Umm, are you a jerk? 'Cause you seem like you might be a
jerk, and very likely an ignoramus as well.

You spent a whole lot of text bloviating before asking your
little question. You dissed advice you got for free in an
unrestricted public forum, from people who were not in any
way obliged to answer you. You boasted repeatedly of your
vast experience, then asked a question it's difficult to
imagine an experienced cyclist asking.

It seems to me that the developmental exercise you could
most benefit from is social and not physical:

See how long you can hold a face-to-face conversation with
somebody _without_ venturing your opinion, relating one of
your experiences, or otherwise talking about yourself.

Try to discover, for each person you interact with,
something that they understand much better than you do.

Reflect on the social and conversational equivalents of
yielding the right-of-way, and exercise these options at
every convenient opportunity.

Good luck getting the exercise you need!

Chalo Colina
 
Chalo wrote:
> Thad O wrote:
>>
>> A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise
>> program. The responses ranged from awful to OK with
>> nothing really great. ... But before I go on, there were
>> a few answers which were... well stupid. I'm tired of the
>> people who post things which are wrong ( in this case
>> some were plain dangerous ). I guess some guys have to
>> make up for other... shortcomings, by pulling a Cliff
>> Claven act. ... this advice was especially stupid.
>> {snippage}

> Umm, are you a jerk? 'Cause you seem like you might be a
> jerk, and very likely an ignoramus as well.
>
> You spent a whole lot of text bloviating before asking
> your little question. You dissed advice you got for free
> in an unrestricted public forum, from people who were not
> in any way obliged to answer you. You boasted repeatedly
> of your vast experience, then asked a question it's
> difficult to imagine an experienced cyclist asking.
>
> It seems to me that the developmental exercise you could
> most benefit from is social and not physical:
>
> See how long you can hold a face-to-face conversation with
> somebody _without_ venturing your opinion, relating one of
> your experiences, or otherwise talking about yourself.
>
> Try to discover, for each person you interact with,
> something that they understand much better than you do.
>
> Reflect on the social and conversational equivalents of
> yielding the right-of-way, and exercise these options at
> every convenient opportunity.
>
> Good luck getting the exercise you need!

Bravisimo. Right On. Friggin' A.

Bill "that rocked" S.
 
Thad O wrote:

> MisNomer wrote:
>
> >The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is
> >to ride the bike!
> Bulshit. If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone
> should be sufficient. So why does Lance Armostring waste
> his time with weight training?

Because multiple days of racing consumes muscle. Building up
a base of muscle in the pre and early season means he can
lose muscle mass as the season progresses without losing
critical strength. At the end of the Tour, riders are weaker
than when they started, but their endurance level is
(typically) higher.

Loss of muscle mass is not an issue for most riders, who
don't put in the long days of racing that a pro does.
Resistance training has other benefits for cyclists, such as
core strength to prevent injuries, but it doesn't build
endurance. For building endurance, there's no substitute for
getting out and riding.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
Thad O wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:54:09 GMT, MisNomer
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is
>> to ride the bike!
> Bulshit. If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone
> should be sufficient. So why does Lance Armostring waste
> his time with weight training?
> http://www.lancearmstrong.com/training/index.html

So if you've got all the answers, Obnoxio, then why do you
post a question seeking advice and/or references in the
first place?

Bill "Armostring?!? Bet he could kick YOUR ass" S.
 
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:41:06 GMT, Thad O
<[email protected]> wrote:

Snip large quantity of abusive, self delusional **** ...

>
>So now a few questions/comments on some of the more
>positive things that came from my original post.
>
>While I don't disagree with the general idea of doing Yoga,
>it seems much of the time the exercises are just thrown
>out. I'm looking for a plan ( comprehensive workout/with a
>good rotation of exercises ). I suspect Tai Chi might be
>better for me though.
>
>Someone suggested I get weights ( 1 -10 lbs ) or
>"straps"/bands. Can someone talk about the
>advantages/disadvantages of weights vs bands? For weights,
>which are preferable dumbells type weights, or the kind
>that attach to your wrist/ankles?

Get the kind that attach to your wrists, then just continue
your normal daily routine with just one small change. Change
hands every half hour. That will provide you with a form of
vigorous exercise twenty-four hours per day. More than
enough to sort your problems out.

Cheers

David
 
lol.

take care Liz

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:42:40 +1000, J David Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Get the kind that attach to your wrists, then just continue
>your normal daily routine with just one small change.
>Change hands every half hour. That will provide you with a
>form of vigorous exercise twenty-four hours per day. More
>than enough to sort your problems out.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>David
 
Thad O <[email protected]> wrote:

> MisNomer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >The best excercise for building up endurance on a bike is
> >to ride the bike!
>
> Bulshit. If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone
> should be sufficient. So why does Lance Armostring waste
> his time with weight training?

Lance "Armostring" takes extreme measures because he wants
to win the world's premier professional cycling race, every
time he competes in
it.

Others who have other priorities can reach an elite level of
fitness by cycling alone. Consider Freddie Hoffman, who rode
over a million miles in the 20th century and looks likely to
do it again in the 21st:

From http://miles4melanoma.com/hoffman.html --

"Freddie Hoffman is one of the most accomplished cyclists in
the world. He could kick your ass... His lifetime odometer
stands at an astonishing 1,202,625 miles. His top tube reads
'To the Moon and Back, Twice.'"

Lance _wishes_ he were such a badass.

Chalo Colina
 
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:41:06 GMT, Thad O >But before I go
on, there were a few answers which were... well
>stupid. I'm tired of the people who post things which
>are wrong ( in this case some were plain dangerous ). I
>guess some

No offense but, this is usenet, and such is it's nature. The
skill required to usenet has nothing to do with how to use a
browser or newsreader, but rather how to seperate the wheat
from the chaff.

Also, I'm not defending anyone's point of view but even the
most highly regarded experts in the field of exercise (and
nutrition... all sciences really) often disagree wildly with
one another's 'stupid claims'.

Bottom line - usenet can provide you with 'food for though',
the opinons and thoghts for others, and point you in the
right direction to look, or point out something you might
have overlooked, but you still need to do some research and
make up your own mind.

>guys have to make up for other... shortcomings, by pulling
>a Cliff Claven act. So, before I get to my question I am
>going to call those people on their stupidity. For those
>who want to skip ahead, I will be marking the end of this
>part by <===========>.
>
>Of the stupid claims, probably the most stupid claim is
>that climbing stairs is the same exercise as using a
>stairmaster. Aside from the fact that stairclimbing alone
>is not going to promote *all around* fitness ( thus not
>answering my question, just some garbage someone spews to
>show how *smart* they are ), stairs are not the same as a (
>high quality ) stairmaster. Any orthopedist will tell you
>that stairs produce much more wear and tear on the knees.
>Given that bicycling can also create lots of wear and tear
>on the knees ( mostly for people whose knees are already in
>bad shape ), this advice was especially stupid. Hopefully
>people googling the original post will realize just how
>stupid these poster are, before they blow out their knees.
>
>The other stupid claim contends that upper body
>conditioning is not useful in bicycling. Two arguments were
>used to explain my upper body fatigue (when riding):
>gripping the handlebars too tightly and a poor bicycle fit.
>Both stupid for simple reasons.
>
>Frankly I know that the fit if my bike is not as good as it
>could be, because my body is misproportioned. But it is as
>good as it is going to get ( mainly because I don't have
>the time to get a custom fit ). I bought it from Turin
>Cycling, one of the premier bicycling shops in the
>Chicagoland area. They know how to fit a bike. I've been
>riding for 30 years. I know how to fit a bike. Just before
>I bought the bike I reviewed books and articles on fitting
>bikes to make sure that I remembered things right.
Even many cycling experts disagree on how to 'properly'
fit a bike.

>As for gripping handlebars too tightly; I've been cycling
>for thirty years. I know how to grip a bike. Not only do I
>have all my experience ( once again 30 years ), but in that
>time I did a lot of reading, talking to other cyclists, etc
>to improve my form. From the way I have ridden in the past,
>it seemed like I pretty much had it down, being able to
>outride ( both in speed and distance ) most of my friends.
Though remember, you're 30 years older now than when you
started. Your body is very different now... especially the
amount of muscle mass you have.

>Fact is that bicycling requires but does not create upper
>body strength. I checked out several books and they all
>agree on this point. These books range from publications by
That simply doesn't make sense. Anything that 'requires'
strength would therefore create strength through repeated
use. That's how the body works.

>"Bicycling" to Eugene Sloane's "Complete Book of
>Bicycling". The books are quite specific, the lion's share
>of your weight is carried by your arms. Can't remember the
>number that they gave as a percentage, but I would say that
>at least 60% of your weight is on your arms. ( For those
>who don't know, but are curious, that's because the more
>weight on your butt the more impediment there is to smooth
>pedalling. I know not a lot, but how much do you gain by
>shaving your legs? )
>
>In the end, I believe that the idiots that put this
>forward, are just plain lazy and don't want to do any upper
>body conditioning. So instead they make excuses about why
>it's not necessary. Even to those who are willing to do it.
>
><===========>
>
>My question(s):
>
>I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
>time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. Checking
>the situation out, there are no gyms which are
>conveniently located. I live in a group environment, so
>noisy equipment is out, and since I have very very little
>room ( not enough free room to do an exercise video ) a
>lot of equipment is out.
>
>On top of that, the last few years have been rough
>healthwise so I need to basically start from the bottom. In
>particular, I want to build up to the point where I can do
>much more serious cycling again. Like going out and doing a
>century ( which means 100 miles in one day/trip ).
>
>Another thing that I am looking for is balance (and
>comprehensiveness). In the past I've eschewed balance and
>it cost me. Ignore the Achilles's tendon and cause calf
>problems. Ignore the ILTB ( though I really don't know how
>to not ignore
>it ) and wind up with knee problems. So I'm looking for a
> workout that will develop me in a balanced way.
Cycling is a great exercise.

>
>To quote one book: "Fitness is many things to many
>people. To us you are as fit as the weakest link in your
>fitness chain."
>
>I gotten to the point where you have a rough idea of what I
>want. Let me now state the main question that I am asking.
>
>*** Can people recommend books/web sites/anything else that
>will help me design an exercise plan that meets the above
>criteria, plus a few other things below. ***
The cost of a consultation with a personal trainer (or two)
would probably be well worth it.

>The things I expect such a plan to do is to enable me to
>build up suppleness/flexibility, strength and endurance.
What you're looking for is 'cross-training'... you might
want to consider:
1) conventional cycling
2) stationary cycling
3) swimming
4) walking
5) strength training with machines (total gym)
6) strength training with free weights (powerbloks)
7) body weight exercises
8) martial arts

Putting it all together? That's your job. With the help of a
personal trainer. Google 'cross-training for cycling', Jack
Lalanne, and *cyclo-cross* training for a start.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1996/09_96/cross.htm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0880114932/104-2839940-4767957?v=glanceamazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764552376/qid=1087845776/sr=ka-
2/ref=pd_ka_2/104-2839940-4767957

>
>It should allow me to miss a few days.( As few as possible,
>but when you get older, there are these things called
>jobs...) It should also allow substitutions of exercises, (
>So if I can't do exercise 1 to work on a bicep because of
>injury, I do exercise 29 instead. ) and create rotations (
>where some muscles are given a rest on some days ) so that
>I don't overexercise.
I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to
be. You should work all of your muscles. If one is sore,
rest it until it's better. Read up on 'superslow' for this,
especially if you are injury prone (google Fred Hahn, The
Power of 10, and Ken Hutchinson). Also, speak with Steve
Friedies <sp> about kettle-bell-type workouts. Check out
misc.fitness.weights.
 
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:41:06 GMT, Thad O
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Frankly I know that the fit if my bike is not as good as it
>could be, because my body is misproportioned. But it is as
>good as it is going to get ( mainly because I don't have
>the time to get a custom fit ). I bought it from Turin
>Cycling, one of the premier bicycling shops in the
>Chicagoland area. They know how to fit a bike. I've been
>riding for 30 years. I know how to fit a bike. Just before
>I bought the bike I reviewed books and articles on fitting
>bikes to make sure that I remembered things right.

Just one more point worth noting as that most pro-shops use
a 'fit-kit' to fit you to a bike. They take a lot of
measurements (not just your height, but your inseam, arm
length, etc.) This 'points them' in the right direction at
least as far as frame size and adjustments... however, those
adjustments can easily get 'out of adjustment' over time, or
at least need a lot of fine tuning. Here are some crude, but
easy checks that you can do yourself, and might be helpful
to check the fit (from Men's Health):

1. Frame Size - in stocking feet, straddle the bike's top
tube. Crotch should be 1-2 inches above for a road bike,
3-4 for a mountain bike <again, this is a *very* crude
method, better to go with the 'fit-kit'... and I'd say
closer to 1" clearance, not 2... though the rest of the
tips are good...>

2. Handlebar Height - The top bar should be 1-2 inches below
the top of the sadle.

3. Handlebar Reach - When you're pedaling your elbows should
be slightly bent. If they're fully extended, the bike's
stem and/or top tupe may be too long. Elbows significanly
bent means the stem and/or top tube may be too short

4. Back - for road riding, strive for a straight back
(parallel to the ground).

5. Saddle Height - each knee should be <just> slightly bent
at the bottom of the pedal stroke

6. Saddle Tilt - eithe level, or nose slighly down

7. Pedaling Technique - think 'circles', not squares

8. Feet - ball should be directly over pedal axle

Hope that helps (you might also consider a hybrid, and with
more comfort features, and a more upright seating
position... though of course more wind resistance)
 
Thad O wrote:

> In particular I wish to strenthen the secondary and
> tertiary muscles used to support these activitys,
> especially to make up for over development of the
> principle muscles.

You could buy:

http://www.dragondoor.com/b10.html?l=924012

Or just get a $150 300lb Olympic set and deadlift and
overhead press for 5 sets of 5 reps three times a week.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
 
Thad O wrote:

> If the "best way" is to ride, then riding alone should be
> sufficient. So why does Lance Armostring waste his time
> with weight training?
> http://www.lancearmstrong.com/training/index.html

These are absolutely the wrong newsgroups to be asking about
weight training.

Try misc.fitness.weights.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
 
my specialist the other day told me to start swimming
again... It will keep the muscles in my legs from
becoming mush.

Patricia "Thad O" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A while ago I asking for help in designing in an exercise
>program. The responses ranged from awful to OK with nothing
>really great. Some of the responses raised more questions.
>So I thought I would repost my question. Clarifying it, and
>expanding on it.
>
> I've also added misc.fitness.misc. After looking at the
> answers to the questions, I realized that while the
> diabetes and bicycling were a good place to ask my
> question, alone they were not able to provide an overall
> perspective which I believe this group can provide.
>
>
> But before I go on, there were a few answers which were...
> well stupid. I'm tired of the people who post things which
> are wrong ( in this case some were plain dangerous ). I
> guess some guys have to make up for other... shortcomings,
> by pulling a Cliff Claven act. So, before I get to my
> question I am going to call those people on their
> stupidity. For those who want to skip ahead, I will be
> marking the end of this part by <===========>.
>
> Of the stupid claims, probably the most stupid claim is
> that climbing stairs is the same exercise as using a
> stairmaster. Aside from the fact that stairclimbing alone
> is not going to promote *all around* fitness ( thus not
> answering my question, just some garbage someone spews to
> show how *smart* they are ), stairs are not the same as a
> ( high quality ) stairmaster. Any orthopedist will tell
> you that stairs produce much more wear and tear on the
> knees. Given that bicycling can also create lots of wear
> and tear on the knees ( mostly for people whose knees are
> already in bad shape ), this advice was especially stupid.
> Hopefully people googling the original post will realize
> just how stupid these poster are, before they blow out
> their knees.
>
> The other stupid claim contends that upper body
> conditioning is not useful in bicycling. Two arguments
> were used to explain my upper body fatigue (when riding):
> gripping the handlebars too tightly and a poor bicycle
> fit. Both stupid for simple reasons.
>
> Frankly I know that the fit if my bike is not as good as
> it could be, because my body is misproportioned. But it is
> as good as it is going to get ( mainly because I don't
> have the time to get a custom fit ). I bought it from
> Turin Cycling, one of the premier bicycling shops in the
> Chicagoland area. They know how to fit a bike. I've been
> riding for 30 years. I know how to fit a bike. Just before
> I bought the bike I reviewed books and articles on fitting
> bikes to make sure that I remembered things right.
>
> As for gripping handlebars too tightly; I've been cycling
> for thirty years. I know how to grip a bike. Not only do I
> have all my experience ( once again 30 years ), but in
> that time I did a lot of reading, talking to other
> cyclists, etc to improve my form. From the way I have
> ridden in the past, it seemed like I pretty much had it
> down, being able to outride ( both in speed and distance )
> most of my friends.
>
> Fact is that bicycling requires but does not create upper
> body strength. I checked out several books and they all
> agree on this point. These books range from publications
> by "Bicycling" to Eugene Sloane's "Complete Book of
> Bicycling". The books are quite specific, the lion's share
> of your weight is carried by your arms. Can't remember the
> number that they gave as a percentage, but I would say
> that at least 60% of your weight is on your arms. ( For
> those who don't know, but are curious, that's because the
> more weight on your butt the more impediment there is to
> smooth pedalling. I know not a lot, but how much do you
> gain by shaving your legs? )
>
> In the end, I believe that the idiots that put this
> forward, are just plain lazy and don't want to do any
> upper body conditioning. So instead they make excuses
> about why it's not necessary. Even to those who are
> willing to do it.
>
> <===========>
>
> My question(s):
>
> I used to go to a gym, but it turned out that I spent more
> time driving to and fro then I did in the gym. Checking
> the situation out, there are no gyms which are
> conveniently located. I live in a group environment, so
> noisy equipment is out, and since I have very very little
> room ( not enough free room to do an exercise video ) a
> lot of equipment is out.
>
> On top of that, the last few years have been rough
> healthwise so I need to basically start from the bottom.
> In particular, I want to build up to the point where I can
> do much more serious cycling again. Like going out and
> doing a century ( which means 100 miles in one day/trip ).
>
> Another thing that I am looking for is balance (and
> comprehensiveness). In the past I've eschewed balance and
> it cost me. Ignore the Achilles's tendon and cause calf
> problems. Ignore the ILTB ( though I really don't know how
> to not ignore
> it ) and wind up with knee problems. So I'm looking for a
> workout that will develop me in a balanced way.
>
> To quote one book: "Fitness is many things to many
> people. To us you are as fit as the weakest link in your
> fitness chain."
>
> I gotten to the point where you have a rough idea of
> what I want. Let me now state the main question that I
> am asking.
>
> *** Can people recommend books/web sites/anything else
> that will help me design an exercise plan that meets the
> above criteria, plus a few other things below. ***
>
> The things I expect such a plan to do is to enable me to
> build up suppleness/flexibility, strength and endurance.
>
> It should allow me to miss a few days.( As few as
> possible, but when you get older, there are these things
> called jobs...) It should also allow substitutions of
> exercises, ( So if I can't do exercise 1 to work on a
> bicep because of injury, I do exercise 29 instead. ) and
> create rotations ( where some muscles are given a rest on
> some days ) so that I don't overexercise.
>
> So now a few questions/comments on some of the more
> positive things that came from my original post.
>
> While I don't disagree with the general idea of doing
> Yoga, it seems much of the time the exercises are just
> thrown out. I'm looking for a plan ( comprehensive
> workout/with a good rotation of exercises ). I suspect Tai
> Chi might be better for me though.
>
> Someone suggested I get weights ( 1 -10 lbs ) or
> "straps"/bands. Can someone talk about the
> advantages/disadvantages of weights vs bands? For weights,
> which are preferable dumbells type weights, or the kind
> that attach to your wrist/ankles?
>
> A final comment. Someone recommended books written by
> Joyce Vendral. I've checked out a couple in the library,
> and they seem to be more focused to women. Also I'm a
> little put off by the way she spammed some of her books
> on Amazon.
>
> Thanks.
 
Patricia1966wa wrote:

> my specialist the other day told me to start swimming
> again... It will keep the muscles in my legs from
> becoming mush.

If that's your goal, and you can walk, walking is much
better for leg muscle development than swimming. As is
cycling.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Thad O <[email protected]> writes:
>
> *** Can people recommend books/web sites/anything else
> that will help me design an exercise plan that meets the
> above criteria, plus a few other things below. ***
>
> The things I expect such a plan to do is to enable me to
> build up suppleness/flexibility, strength and endurance.

I just spent today shoveling & wheelbarrowing busted
concrete and landscaping gravel. And I feel good! Although a
little stiff just south of the tuchas.

> It should allow me to miss a few days.

Temp labour consignment work. You can elect to go, or
forego. Plus some other contract stuff, and some itinerant
farm/ranch work.

> but when you get older, there are these things called
> jobs...)

Time and health are more important than income-sources. One
can make money any time one wants, but your time is here &
gone. And health is more functionally dependent on the time
rather than the money you put into it. You can spend money
putting time into health & fitness, or you can make money by
putting time into it. But I guess that would be too stupid.
Or at least, too hard.

But, Jesus Murphy -- developing one's strength to
comfortably ride in the drops without becoming sway-backed
ain't rocket surgery!

This world is replete with fat-walleted, lily-handed wusses
who'd rather pay the money than do the work.

Strong cycling is pretty much all in the quads anyways.

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