exercises for back

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by jim, Dec 15, 2003.

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  1. jim

    jim Guest

    can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    pain? Thanks.
     
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  2. On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    >pain? Thanks.

    Sure. Any primary health care provider would, as would a physical therapist or certified athletic
    trainer upon their prescription.

    Don't mess with your back. You only get one. What is bothering you could be simple overuse or it may
    be something more serious. It deserves proper medical evaluation and treatment.
     
  3. Jim wrote:

    > can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    > pain? Thanks.

    That depends ($1 to LM).

    How's your back now? Do you have acute pain, chronic pain, no pain?

    Follow up to misc.fitness.weights.

    --
    -Wayne
     
  4. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    > pain? Thanks.

    Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage may vary enormously), I have
    found that stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most; in the absence of structural damage
    (which only a physician can diagnose), strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be
    important in preventing chronic lower back pain.

    My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I started fencing as a sport.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  5. Matthew

    Matthew Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    > pain? Thanks.

    Haven't seen you post in rec.bicycles.misc but I will not cross-post to so extensive a group as you
    did, so I hope you see this.

    The classic strength training exercises for low back are stiff-legged deadlifts or good mornings.
    I'm not sure if they will prevent low-back pain however.

    I don't have the aptitude to properly describe good form for these exercises but any physical
    therapist or even the "moron" certified athletic trainers you could find at any gym could do so. And
    I'm sure there is a website someplace with good pictures, videos, or descriptions of these
    exercises.
     
  6. ahall

    ahall Guest

    >>>>> jim writes:

    jim> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    jim> pain? Thanks.

    Stiff-legged deads.

    Start very light, work up slowly.

    --
    Andrew Hall (Now reading Usenet in misc.fitness.aerobic...)
     
  7. Psycholist

    Psycholist Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    > pain? Thanks.

    One of my daily exercises is one called the Superman. You lie face down on the floor, extend your
    arms and feet as far away from each other as you can, comfortably. Then you raise them towards the
    ceiling -- arching your back. You keep your knees and elbows straight. You should feel it all the
    way up and down your back. This one came from some cycling coach. I don't remember who.

    FWIW, Bob C.
     
  8. Zippy the Pinhead wrote:

    > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >>can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    >>pain? Thanks.
    >
    > Sure. Any primary health care provider would, as would a physical therapist or certified athletic
    > trainer upon their prescription.
    >
    > Don't mess with your back. You only get one. What is bothering you could be simple overuse or it
    > may be something more serious. It deserves proper medical evaluation and treatment.

    Your screen name is apt. Ninety-five percent of physicians know jack about exercise, including for
    rehab/therapy. Physical therapists are good, but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who
    spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.

    BTW, the OP didn't actually say he had low back pain.

    --
    -Wayne
     
  9. David Kerber wrote:

    > [email protected] says...
    >> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back pain?
    >> Thanks.
    >
    > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage may vary enormously), I have
    > found that stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;

    What are setups?

    > in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician can diagnose),

    but not reliably or necessarily correctly,

    > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic lower
    > back pain.

    Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.

    > My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I started fencing as a sport.

    You could certainly do a lot worse.
     
  10. Just zis Guy

    Just zis Guy Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:06:05 -0700, "Matthew"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I don't have the aptitude to properly describe good form for these exercises but any physical
    >therapist or even the "moron" certified athletic trainers you could find at any gym could do so.
    >And I'm sure there is a website someplace with good pictures, videos, or descriptions of these
    >exercises.

    You can also try sitting on a Swiss ball instead of a chair some of the time. Or even keeping your
    back warm with a neoprene back-warmer while riding ;-)

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  11. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > David Kerber wrote:
    >
    > > [email protected] says...
    > >> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to prevent low back
    > >> pain? Thanks.
    > >
    > > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage may vary enormously), I have
    > > found that stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;
    >
    > What are setups?

    A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.

    > > in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician can diagnose),
    >
    > but not reliably or necessarily correctly,

    Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can diagnose structural damage in the lower
    back? Because it normally requires x- rays or MRI's to detect.

    > > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic lower
    > > back pain.
    >
    > Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.

    Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists routinely tell people with lower back pain
    without any detectable damage to work on strengthening their abdominal muscles, and it works for
    most of them.

    > > My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I started fencing as a sport.
    >
    > You could certainly do a lot worse.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  12. Psycholist

    Psycholist Guest

    "Wayne S. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David Kerber wrote:
    >
    > > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic lower
    > > back pain.
    >
    > Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.

    I think this general notion applies to people who have beer guts overhanging their belts in front.
    That puts major stress on the back. Getting rid of the beer gut gets rid of back pain. Not sure it
    applies to the flat-bellied.

    Bob C.
     
  13. On 15 Dec 2003 13:15:25 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE
    > certification.

    Interesting.

    PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical school.

    Weekend, huh?

    OK.
     
  14. David Kerber wrote:

    > [email protected] says...
    >> David Kerber wrote:
    >> >
    >> > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage may vary enormously), I
    >> > have found that stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;
    >>
    >> What are setups?
    >
    > A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.

    Oh. Heh: I never considered that, perhaps because I thought you might mean step-ups.

    >> > in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician can diagnose),
    >>
    >> but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
    >
    > Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can diagnose structural damage in the lower
    > back? Because it normally requires x- rays or MRI's to detect.

    This is really a big problem. It is said that you can't tell from an autopsy whether someone's back
    hurt. If you take an X-ray or MRI of an adult walking down the street without symptoms or history of
    back pain, there's something like a 20% chance that they'll show a disk bulge or outright herniation
    (with the probability increasing with age, IIRC). If you take an X-ray or MRI of someone with severe
    LBP, it may or may not reflect such an abnormality.

    >> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic lower
    >> > back pain.
    >>
    >> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
    >
    > Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists routinely tell people with lower back
    > pain without any detectable damage to work on strengthening their abdominal muscles, and it works
    > for most of them.

    It's difficult to say what actually works for people with LBP. Studies show that LBP tends to clear
    up with time, regardless of the nature of the intervention (chiro, massage, weights, cardio,
    accupuncture, shamanism, aromatherapy, you name it). Thus, it's difficult to say that ab exercises
    work on LBP. With that said, the likelihood of long-term freedom from back pain, or of performing
    the tasks of life in the presence of back pain, is maximized by performing activities that
    strengthen the trunk musculature, particularly the back muscles.

    I hurt my back a couple of years ago with an unfortunate motion in deadlifting. After hobbling
    around for a while, I found the best therapy was using it, gingerly at first, but with
    astonishingly heavy exercise in short order. I'm not saying that this is the answer for everyone,
    but if you suffer from occasional LBP you owe it to yourself to do what you can to strengthen your
    back when you can.

    --
    -Wayne
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>,
    psycholist <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >"Wayne S. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> David Kerber wrote:
    >>
    >> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic lower
    >> > back pain.
    >>
    >> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
    >
    >I think this general notion applies to people who have beer guts overhanging their belts in front.
    >That puts major stress on the back. Getting rid of the beer gut gets rid of back pain. Not sure it
    >applies to the flat-bellied.

    Riding a bike will get rid of a beer gut a lot faster than daily ab exercises will.

    --Paul
     
  16. Zippy the Pinhead wrote:

    > "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
    >
    >> but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE
    >> certification.
    >
    > Interesting.
    >
    > PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical school.

    Physiotherapy programs are hard to get into, but not harder than med school. The person you're most
    likely to encounter in a PT environment is a Physical Therapist Assistant, which is a 2-year
    Associates Degree in the states. PTA's are allowed to do anything the PT says they can (so it
    depends on the PT and the PTA). In some environments, the PTA has free rein. Trainer certifications
    are a dime a dozen (at least here in the states).

    > Weekend, huh?

    Yep. A weekend.

    --
    -Wayne
     
  17. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > David Kerber wrote:
    >
    > > [email protected] says...
    > >> David Kerber wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage may vary enormously), I
    > >> > have found that stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;
    > >>
    > >> What are setups?
    > >
    > > A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.
    >
    > Oh. Heh: I never considered that, perhaps because I thought you might mean step-ups.
    >
    > >> > in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician can diagnose),
    > >>
    > >> but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
    > >
    > > Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can diagnose structural damage in the
    > > lower back? Because it normally requires x- rays or MRI's to detect.
    >
    > This is really a big problem. It is said that you can't tell from an autopsy whether someone's
    > back hurt. If you take an X-ray or MRI of an adult walking down the street without symptoms or
    > history of back pain, there's something like a 20% chance that they'll show a disk bulge or
    > outright herniation (with the probability increasing with age, IIRC). If you take an X-ray or MRI
    > of someone with severe LBP, it may or may not reflect such an abnormality.

    Definitely true. However, I'm talking about people who have both LBP *and* detectable damage, such
    as a herniated disk, cracked vertebra, etc. I am well aware that most of the time there is no
    detectable cause for pain, and I've also seen the info about people who show indications of bulging
    disks with no symptoms.

    > >> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic
    > >> > lower back pain.
    > >>
    > >> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
    > >
    > > Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists routinely tell people with lower back
    > > pain without any detectable damage to work on strengthening their abdominal muscles, and it
    > > works for most of them.
    >
    > It's difficult to say what actually works for people with LBP. Studies show that LBP tends to
    > clear up with time, regardless of the nature of the intervention (chiro, massage, weights, cardio,
    > accupuncture, shamanism, aromatherapy, you name it). Thus, it's difficult to say that ab exercises
    > work on LBP.

    True, but from what I've read, and from my own experience, continuing the exercises frequently keeps
    it from coming back. I.E., people who used to have bouts of pain every couple of months might go a
    year or more between bouts after they start doing stretching and abdominal exercises.

    > With that said, the likelihood of long-term freedom from back pain, or of performing the tasks of
    > life in the presence of back pain, is maximized by performing activities that strengthen the trunk
    > musculature, particularly the back muscles.

    I think the key is to strengthen all of the muscles which hold your upper body in position, which
    would include both the back muscles and the abdominals.

    > I hurt my back a couple of years ago with an unfortunate motion in deadlifting. After hobbling
    > around for a while, I found the best therapy was using it, gingerly at first, but with
    > astonishingly heavy exercise in short order. I'm not saying that this is the answer for everyone,
    > but if you suffer from occasional LBP you owe it to yourself to do what you can to strengthen your
    > back when you can.

    I've never had a traumatic injury to my back, just occasional pain from (for example) too much
    digging in the yard, etc. The heat (from working up a good sweat), stretching and movement of
    fencing does wonders for me.
     
  18. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <K4pDb.39075$A%[email protected]>, cnhyf-
    [email protected] says...
    > In article <[email protected]>, psycholist <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >"Wayne S. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >> David Kerber wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be important in preventing chronic
    > >> > lower back pain.
    > >>
    > >> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
    > >
    > >I think this general notion applies to people who have beer guts overhanging their belts in
    > >front. That puts major stress on the back. Getting rid of the beer gut gets rid of back pain. Not
    > >sure it applies to the flat-bellied.
    >
    > Riding a bike will get rid of a beer gut a lot faster than daily ab exercises will.

    The purpose of the ab exercises is to help reduce back pain even with the gut, not get rid of the
    beer gut itself. After all, some people need an aerobelly to get their best cycling results <Grin>.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  19. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "Paul Southworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:K4pDb.39075$A%[email protected]...
    >
    > Riding a bike will get rid of a beer gut a lot faster than daily ab exercises will.

    Yes and no. It *will* help with weight-loss, of course, but doesn't do much to strengthen abs at
    all. (Mt. biking does a bit more than road, but not a lot.)

    Bill "ever notice how your belly is cold during/after riding? Blood busy elsewhere" S.
     
  20. "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
    >
    > Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
    >
    > > "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
    > >
    > >> but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE
    > >> certification.

    Careful here with the terms you're throwing around.

    Certified athletic trainers (ATC's and why it's not CAT I don't know: the guys who handle taping,
    icing, all that shit) have to go through a shitload of hours (it's like 1200) to get certified.

    You're talking about certified personal trainers.

    > >
    > > Interesting.
    > >
    > > PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical school.
    >
    > Physiotherapy programs are hard to get into, but not harder than med school.

    They were a few years back. This had to with enormous demand (why bother with med school when you
    can go to PT school, be done in 4 years and make nearly as much money) and not a lot of programs.

    Lyle
     
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