helmutRoole2 said:
What are you on about? Wiggins has the cleanest blood values in the peleton.
Wiggins' Values Point To Cleaner Peloton | Cyclingnews.com
Exhausted Bradley Wiggins now knows he can win the Tour
- Thread starter TheDangerMan
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What are you on about? Wiggins has the cleanest blood values in the peleton.
Wiggins' Values Point To Cleaner Peloton | Cyclingnews.com
classic1 said:
Fair enough. But the end game answer cant be to just let it roll. I mean you cant make the sport primarily about 'whoever is willing to take the greatest personal health risks to win'.
You have to try to promote the real talent without wrecking the sport as a going conern. Wasnt richard england racing in ther USA last season? Didnt they sack him and he is back home racing for nothing? Wasnt he at Bissell? Hasnt Bissell got too guys on doping charges this season alone?
Maybe thats all unrelated. But you have to look after the guys with natural talent who want to race properly. Those are the guys who deserve contracts.
(I realise racing in the US isnt real cycling but still - I think if we dont look after the pro tour situation the US Pro scene will become a complete cesspool!)
Did George Hincapie cost Brad a podium place ?
Stage 3: Marseille - La Grande-Motte
19 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 5:01:24
35 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream +0:00:41
That 41 seconds lost to LA was critical, as Brad was only 37 seconds behind him in Paris
Final general classification
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:05:24
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:06:01
Recovox News: Did Hincapie Tell Lance When The Hammer Went Down?
Stage 3: Marseille - La Grande-Motte
19 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 5:01:24
35 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream +0:00:41
That 41 seconds lost to LA was critical, as Brad was only 37 seconds behind him in Paris
Final general classification
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:05:24
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:06:01
Recovox News: Did Hincapie Tell Lance When The Hammer Went Down?
Yeah, well, Armstrong's the most tested athlete in the world (not really, but that's what he says) and Ulrich never failed a test. And yet, for some reason, they seem like a pair of drug cheats.TheDangerMan said:
Also, consider that every rider on the ProTour has to submit to blood evaluations so according to your reasoning, they're all clean... or, more likely, they're all drug cheats.
Don't get me wrong. I'm just being realistic. I don't think PED use demeans the sport or the athlete or the action on the road. It's still an athletic achievement, albeit enhanced. And, I acknowledge that certain athletes respond to PEDs better than others and while on the outset that seems unfair, what's fair about an altitude tent?
The only thing that bothers me about Wiggins is this sideshow he perpetrating ref. his cleanliness. Please.
Look, Swiss world road champion Oscar Camezind was class on the bike and off. He had one positive for EPO, one no-comment, and one retirement. I think that pretty much says it all.
BTW: It's spelled peloton. I corrected it above for you.
helmutRoole2 said:
No, Wiggins has a really good background in antidoping. You're trying to be too clever and barking up the wrong tree on this one I'm afraid.
TheDangerMan said:
He certainly has a good background in being very 'critical' about doping but it could be argued that this is a tactic to divert attention away from himself. How do you explain his astonishing performance in this years T de F? His previous best effort in a Grand Tour was 71st in this years edition of the Giro. Whether you like it or not this has certainly raised eyebrows (and not just with us jaded cycling fans - L'Equipe has in so many words said they reckon Wiggins is dirty).
TheDangerMan said:
Years ago David Millar was thought to "be a good boy". Now he's interviewed by all and sundry when it comes drugs despite the fact he was well and truely caught with his hands in his big stash of EPO with more needles in his possesion that all the junkies in Amsterdam combined.
gtm said:
He didn't focus on the GC before. His main focus was the time trial bits in preperation for the track. This is the first year that he trained for the Tour and not the track, and lost the weight to do it. He is the real deal - his blood values show this. He is going to release all his values for the last five years apparently, to show how they haven't changed.
I can understand the skepticism but it's incorrect.
David Millar too had a great background in anti-doping after his arrest by French police in 2004 for -- in short -- EPO. Millar came back to the sport a changed man, an outspoken anti-doping activist while at the same time retaining the services of renound doping doctor, Dr. Michele Ferrari.TheDangerMan said:
How many times can someone watch Sammy Davis Jr., do the Candy Man? It's the same song and dance over and over again. Wiggins is singing the same pop song with a little different twist, and yet, here he is getting the same huge results against guys who have been or later will be implicated in drug scams either by police investigations or drug tests.
Armstrong lost weight. Armstrong never focused on the Tour. Armstrong retro-tested positive six times for EPO in 1999. He beat Wiggins by 37 seconds this year. That's less than two seconds a stage... one-one-thousand-two.
Listen, there are no superheroes out there. There's no one clean abnormally gifted guy who's going to take all the dopers school. The good guys who are racing clean, you don't know who they are because they are not racing professionally.
helmutRoole2 said:
Dr Ferrari is not just a doping guy. He is a legendary sports scientist who helped pioneer the Conconi Test that transformed endurance preperation. There are lots of reasons to want his services. I certainly would.
You're right that Wiggins' story is similar to Armstrong. I have a really good feeling about it. Though unlike Armstrong, it's very unlikely indeed, from the evidence of his blood values, that doping has anything to do with this. Study the charts on the link above.
TheDangerMan said:
ROTFL. This is the same guy who is posting over at cyclingnews' forums as "The Arbiter." We are all laughing our asses off at his stupidity. Here is a sample:
We should all be able to agree that Armstrong and other cyclists did not visit Dr Ferrari for the dope, since they could quite easily get hold of EPO without his help. Dr Ferrari coined the Conconi Test which revolutionised endurance sports, he is a legendary sports scientists. That's why people wanted to work with him. Lets be honest about this.
Also Armstrong is very loyal to his friends and is not going to dump on someone because of unsubstantiated allegations. He would say that is your problem, not his. Ferrari is the best.
TheDangerMan said:
I think it was Dr Conconi who developed the Conconi Test and it is still debated in journals today that what some scientists see in the graphs is not universally shared. One of Ferrai's contributions is the VAM (vertical ascent in meters) but this is not widely accepted as Gospel either. Certainly the numbers for Contador up Verbier are wildly inacurate.
TheDangerMan said:
So with Wiggos "blood values" looking so squeaky clean then we can assume just from reading them that Lance is squeaky clean too. Shock, horror... look they look clean - that means there's be a 3218321.03221% reduction in the number of craptacular posts suspecting Lance of doping...
NOT!
I posted the image without readjusting the size first just to feck with the layout on screen.
Wiggins should fact check:
1) Andy Schleck is not going to Team Cack - they wanted to sign him without his brother because they said he'd 'develop better'. Bollocks - they just thought he'd worry more about Frank than Lance when dragging the latter's sorry old butt around the mountains of France. Anyway, no Frank no Andy.
2)Twitter war? Armstrong might be unable to keep his texting digits under control but I think Contador has twittered once to announce his website.
As for whether he doped or not - remember Rob Hayles and his plus 50% HCT? There are 2 possibilities: either the peloton are clean and so Wiggins gets to show his natural ability or the peloton are as dirty as ever and Wiggins simply wised up (or took his Team GB know how to the road).
As for his claim to be a potential TdF winner - he didn't win a single TT or launch a single significant time gaining attack in the mountains. Unless he can improve on that then he really can't be considered a serious GC contender. If anything, the top 10 this year reflected the baleful influence of the overlong TTT on a race with no significant Pyreneean stages to balance the time gains.
1) Andy Schleck is not going to Team Cack - they wanted to sign him without his brother because they said he'd 'develop better'. Bollocks - they just thought he'd worry more about Frank than Lance when dragging the latter's sorry old butt around the mountains of France. Anyway, no Frank no Andy.
2)Twitter war? Armstrong might be unable to keep his texting digits under control but I think Contador has twittered once to announce his website.
As for whether he doped or not - remember Rob Hayles and his plus 50% HCT? There are 2 possibilities: either the peloton are clean and so Wiggins gets to show his natural ability or the peloton are as dirty as ever and Wiggins simply wised up (or took his Team GB know how to the road).
As for his claim to be a potential TdF winner - he didn't win a single TT or launch a single significant time gaining attack in the mountains. Unless he can improve on that then he really can't be considered a serious GC contender. If anything, the top 10 this year reflected the baleful influence of the overlong TTT on a race with no significant Pyreneean stages to balance the time gains.
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