Expert says Floyd Landis's results "don't add up"

[Stu Fleming]

benjo maso wrote:

> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around, although
> the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?

Cowboy?

 

[benjo maso]

"Stu Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> benjo maso wrote:
>
>> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around,
>> although the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
>
> Cowboy?

Well, there is well known rider often called "a cowboy" by his colleagues,
but it is not Armstrong.

Benjo

 

"benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>
> <Montesquiou> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> [email protected]...
>>>
>>> <Montesquiou> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>> [email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> "MMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paris Hilton wrote:
>>>>>>> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another article saying the results don't make sense:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990.
>>>>> Theunisse tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was
>>>>> far above the 6:1 allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse
>>>>> protested his innocence and claimed to have a unusually high T/E
>>>>> ratio, which was fluctuating in a exceptionally way. Almost nobody
>>>>> believed him, but he was probably right - which by the way didn't mean
>>>>> he was innocent. About a year later a Belgian journalist let me listen
>>>>> to a tape recording of a interview with one of the soigneurs of PDM
>>>>> (the team of Theunisse). It was a very interesting story. The politics
>>>>> of PDM in these days was: we're allowed to give our riders as much
>>>>> testosterone as long as their T/E ratio doesn't exceed the 6:1 ratio.
>>>>> Of course, they tested the team regularly to keep from unexpected
>>>>> surprises. Consequently, it was a great surprise that Theunisse had
>>>>> already once tested positive on testosterone. They assumed they must
>>>>> have made a mistake, but they didn't want to take any risk. So when
>>>>> Theunisse in 1990 believed to be capable to win the FlPche Wallone,
>>>>> three days before the race the whole team was tested by the team
>>>>> doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes. Theunisse's T/E
>>>>> ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear, especially
>>>>> because of course they were not so stupid to take a new dose
>>>>> testosterone before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone (I
>>>>> think he finished third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he felt
>>>>> cheated, proclaimed his innocence and suggested he must be suffering
>>>>> from a congenital physical abnormality. The explanation (which was
>>>>> corfirmed by a specialist I interviewed later) is rather simple. Under
>>>>> normal conditions it certainly would have been a freak result, but
>>>>> pro's are riding in exceptional conditions in which the body is
>>>>> sometimes reacting exceptionally, especially because it is already
>>>>> functioning in a unusual way, because riders are usually taking
>>>>> several different products which might have strong effects (that's the
>>>>> intention anyhow).
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that
>>>>> Landis had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo,
>>>>> testosterone, etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have
>>>>> nothing to fear. However, under the exceptional conditions -
>>>>> exceptionally hard mountain stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his
>>>>> body might have reacted in the same unexpected way as Theunisse's 16
>>>>> years before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Benjo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benjo,
>>>>
>>>> I heard some "rumor" on a Gerone (Spain) connexion.....
>>>>
>>>> I can even say that it came from Jean Paul Brouchon (Sp?) that you know
>>>> I am sure.
>>>> My impression is that we will have a GREAT surprise in the next few
>>>> days.
>>>> The Spain-Germany-Italy connexion began to be disclosed by El Pais.
>>>> Do you know something you can tell us ?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could
>>> surprise us?
>>
>> Of course
>>
>> Au point où nous en sommes... plus rien
>> But the focus is on the Gerone-connexion...
>
>
> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around,
> although the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
>
> Benjo
>

You said it, I did not ; )

 

<Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>
> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>>
>> <Montesquiou> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> [email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> <Montesquiou> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>>> [email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "MMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paris Hilton wrote:
>>>>>>>> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another article saying the results don't make sense:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990.
>>>>>> Theunisse tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was
>>>>>> far above the 6:1 allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse
>>>>>> protested his innocence and claimed to have a unusually high T/E
>>>>>> ratio, which was fluctuating in a exceptionally way. Almost nobody
>>>>>> believed him, but he was probably right - which by the way didn't
>>>>>> mean he was innocent. About a year later a Belgian journalist let me
>>>>>> listen to a tape recording of a interview with one of the soigneurs
>>>>>> of PDM (the team of Theunisse). It was a very interesting story. The
>>>>>> politics of PDM in these days was: we're allowed to give our riders
>>>>>> as much testosterone as long as their T/E ratio doesn't exceed the
>>>>>> 6:1 ratio. Of course, they tested the team regularly to keep from
>>>>>> unexpected surprises. Consequently, it was a great surprise that
>>>>>> Theunisse had already once tested positive on testosterone. They
>>>>>> assumed they must have made a mistake, but they didn't want to take
>>>>>> any risk. So when Theunisse in 1990 believed to be capable to win the
>>>>>> FlPche Wallone, three days before the race the whole team was tested
>>>>>> by the team doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes.
>>>>>> Theunisse's T/E ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear,
>>>>>> especially because of course they were not so stupid to take a new
>>>>>> dose testosterone before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone
>>>>>> (I think he finished third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he
>>>>>> felt cheated, proclaimed his innocence and suggested he must be
>>>>>> suffering from a congenital physical abnormality. The explanation
>>>>>> (which was corfirmed by a specialist I interviewed later) is rather
>>>>>> simple. Under normal conditions it certainly would have been a freak
>>>>>> result, but pro's are riding in exceptional conditions in which the
>>>>>> body is sometimes reacting exceptionally, especially because it is
>>>>>> already functioning in a unusual way, because riders are usually
>>>>>> taking several different products which might have strong effects
>>>>>> (that's the intention anyhow).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that
>>>>>> Landis had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo,
>>>>>> testosterone, etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have
>>>>>> nothing to fear. However, under the exceptional conditions -
>>>>>> exceptionally hard mountain stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his
>>>>>> body might have reacted in the same unexpected way as Theunisse's 16
>>>>>> years before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Benjo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Benjo,
>>>>>
>>>>> I heard some "rumor" on a Gerone (Spain) connexion.....
>>>>>
>>>>> I can even say that it came from Jean Paul Brouchon (Sp?) that you
>>>>> know I am sure.
>>>>> My impression is that we will have a GREAT surprise in the next few
>>>>> days.
>>>>> The Spain-Germany-Italy connexion began to be disclosed by El Pais.
>>>>> Do you know something you can tell us ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could
>>>> surprise us?
>>>
>>> Of course
>>>
>>> Au point où nous en sommes... plus rien
>>> But the focus is on the Gerone-connexion...
>>
>>
>> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around,
>> although the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
>>
>> Benjo
>>
>
> You said it, I did not ; )
>

Ok, sorry.
You know much more than we know.
You have your name - and not a nickname - on this forum.
We have to respect it.
Of course as Brouchon (sp?) said once : The Gerone connexion.

 

[[email protected]]

benjo maso wrote:
> "MMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Paris Hilton wrote:
> >> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
> >
> > Another article saying the results don't make sense:
> >
> > http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
>
>
> A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990. Theunisse
> tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was far above the 6:1
> allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse protested his innocence and
> claimed to have a unusually high T/E ratio, which was fluctuating in a
> exceptionally way. Almost nobody believed him, but he was probably right -
> which by the way didn't mean he was innocent. About a year later a Belgian
> journalist let me listen to a tape recording of a interview with one of the
> soigneurs of PDM (the team of Theunisse). It was a very interesting story.
> The politics of PDM in these days was: we're allowed to give our riders as
> much testosterone as long as their T/E ratio doesn't exceed the 6:1 ratio.
> Of course, they tested the team regularly to keep from unexpected surprises.
> Consequently, it was a great surprise that Theunisse had already once tested
> positive on testosterone. They assumed they must have made a mistake, but
> they didn't want to take any risk. So when Theunisse in 1990 believed to be
> capable to win the FlPche Wallone, three days before the race the whole team
> was tested by the team doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes.
> Theunisse's T/E ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear,
> especially because of course they were not so stupid to take a new dose
> testosterone before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone (I think he
> finished third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he felt cheated,
> proclaimed his innocence and suggested he must be suffering from a
> congenital physical abnormality. The explanation (which was corfirmed by a
> specialist I interviewed later) is rather simple. Under normal conditions it
> certainly would have been a freak result, but pro's are riding in
> exceptional conditions in which the body is sometimes reacting
> exceptionally, especially because it is already functioning in a unusual
> way, because riders are usually taking several different products which
> might have strong effects (that's the intention anyhow).
>
> Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that Landis
> had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo, testosterone,
> etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have nothing to fear.
> However, under the exceptional conditions - exceptionally hard mountain
> stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his body might have reacted in the same
> unexpected way as Theunisse's 16 years before.
>
> Benjo

So the real question to ask Floyd (and his team) is: "Did you undergo
any blood and urine tests of your own in the days leading up to stage
17?". If "yes" then "Why do you undergo these tests when nothing is
wrong with you?"

 

[RonSonic]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:30:40 +0200, "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><Montesquiou> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> [email protected]...
>>>
>>> "MMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> Paris Hilton wrote:
>>>>> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
>>>>
>>>> Another article saying the results don't make sense:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
>>>
>>>
>>> A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990.
>>> Theunisse tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was far
>>> above the 6:1 allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse protested his
>>> innocence and claimed to have a unusually high T/E ratio, which was
>>> fluctuating in a exceptionally way. Almost nobody believed him, but he
>>> was probably right - which by the way didn't mean he was innocent. About
>>> a year later a Belgian journalist let me listen to a tape recording of a
>>> interview with one of the soigneurs of PDM (the team of Theunisse). It
>>> was a very interesting story. The politics of PDM in these days was:
>>> we're allowed to give our riders as much testosterone as long as their
>>> T/E ratio doesn't exceed the 6:1 ratio. Of course, they tested the team
>>> regularly to keep from unexpected surprises. Consequently, it was a great
>>> surprise that Theunisse had already once tested positive on testosterone.
>>> They assumed they must have made a mistake, but they didn't want to take
>>> any risk. So when Theunisse in 1990 believed to be capable to win the
>>> FlPche Wallone, three days before the race the whole team was tested by
>>> the team doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes. Theunisse's
>>> T/E ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear, especially
>>> because of course they were not so stupid to take a new dose testosterone
>>> before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone (I think he finished
>>> third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he felt cheated, proclaimed
>>> his innocence and suggested he must be suffering from a congenital
>>> physical abnormality. The explanation (which was corfirmed by a
>>> specialist I interviewed later) is rather simple. Under normal conditions
>>> it certainly would have been a freak result, but pro's are riding in
>>> exceptional conditions in which the body is sometimes reacting
>>> exceptionally, especially because it is already functioning in a unusual
>>> way, because riders are usually taking several different products which
>>> might have strong effects (that's the intention anyhow).
>>>
>>> Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that
>>> Landis had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo,
>>> testosterone, etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have nothing
>>> to fear. However, under the exceptional conditions - exceptionally hard
>>> mountain stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his body might have reacted
>>> in the same unexpected way as Theunisse's 16 years before.
>>>
>>> Benjo
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Benjo,
>>
>> I heard some "rumor" on a Gerone (Spain) connexion.....
>>
>> I can even say that it came from Jean Paul Brouchon (Sp?) that you know I
>> am sure.
>> My impression is that we will have a GREAT surprise in the next few days.
>> The Spain-Germany-Italy connexion began to be disclosed by El Pais.
>> Do you know something you can tell us ?
>
>
>I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
>us?

Magenta monkeys flying out of **** Pound's butt?

Ron

 

[Donald Munro]

benjo maso wrote:
>>I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
>>us?

RonSonic wrote:
> Magenta monkeys flying out of **** Pound's butt?

What would T-Mobile be doing in Pound's butt ?

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> benjo maso wrote:
> > "MMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Paris Hilton wrote:
> > >> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
> > >
> > > Another article saying the results don't make sense:
> > >
> > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
> >
> >
> > A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990. Theunisse
> > tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was far above the 6:1
> > allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse protested his innocence and
> > claimed to have a unusually high T/E ratio, which was fluctuating in a
> > exceptionally way. Almost nobody believed him, but he was probably right -
> > which by the way didn't mean he was innocent. About a year later a Belgian
> > journalist let me listen to a tape recording of a interview with one of the
> > soigneurs of PDM (the team of Theunisse). It was a very interesting story.
> > The politics of PDM in these days was: we're allowed to give our riders as
> > much testosterone as long as their T/E ratio doesn't exceed the 6:1 ratio.
> > Of course, they tested the team regularly to keep from unexpected surprises.
> > Consequently, it was a great surprise that Theunisse had already once tested
> > positive on testosterone. They assumed they must have made a mistake, but
> > they didn't want to take any risk. So when Theunisse in 1990 believed to be
> > capable to win the FlPche Wallone, three days before the race the whole team
> > was tested by the team doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes.
> > Theunisse's T/E ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear,
> > especially because of course they were not so stupid to take a new dose
> > testosterone before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone (I think he
> > finished third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he felt cheated,
> > proclaimed his innocence and suggested he must be suffering from a
> > congenital physical abnormality. The explanation (which was corfirmed by a
> > specialist I interviewed later) is rather simple. Under normal conditions it
> > certainly would have been a freak result, but pro's are riding in
> > exceptional conditions in which the body is sometimes reacting
> > exceptionally, especially because it is already functioning in a unusual
> > way, because riders are usually taking several different products which
> > might have strong effects (that's the intention anyhow).
> >
> > Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that Landis
> > had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo, testosterone,
> > etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have nothing to fear.
> > However, under the exceptional conditions - exceptionally hard mountain
> > stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his body might have reacted in the same
> > unexpected way as Theunisse's 16 years before.
> >
> > Benjo
>
> So the real question to ask Floyd (and his team) is: "Did you undergo
> any blood and urine tests of your own in the days leading up to stage
> 17?". If "yes" then "Why do you undergo these tests when nothing is
> wrong with you?"

Phonak team management does testing on their own, btw, and have been
know to kick people off the team based on these test. But I doubt they
did it in the middle of the race.

 

[Stu Fleming]

[email protected] wrote:

> Phonak team management does testing on their own, btw, and have been
> know to kick people off the team based on these test. But I doubt they
> did it in the middle of the race.
>

I would be very surprised if the team medical staff on Phonak had not
done any physiological testing (including bloods) on the rest day.