Experts only - no "conspiracy theorists", please

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by tonyzackery, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify - I want to lose upper body mass, which in my case is predominantly muscle rather than fat due to my low body fat percentage. I do not care if I lose upper body strength as I the gains in cycling performance from losing the weight will outweigh the upper body strength loss.

    Glad you brought it up, but I am indeed an extremely fast responder and I'm confident I will reach my goal. As I mentioned earlier, I'll post updates on my progress. Thank you for your help.
     


  2. dockeen

    dockeen New Member

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    As a leading question, for somone trying to acheive the goals here, is there virtue in playing with the timing of eating, i.e. doing a long workout and NOT eating for a long while after to encourage catabolism?

    Wayne
     
  3. Tapeworm

    Tapeworm New Member

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    Tony, I am something in a similar situation, I have a hill climb and road race in March 07 and wish to be a bit lighter for the hill climb. You obviously have a fairly good handle on your diet in relation to energy intake, expenditure etc.

    Just a couple of points that may help.

    First is that the calorie counter on the Polar is not the most accurate measure. A power meter gives a better indication of the amount of energy actually being put out on the bike. There was talk on one of the other threads about a relatively inexpensive model called the iBike. Anyway, from what I have read, you multiply the total kilojoules output by 4 (the human body on a bike is approx 25% efficient) to give an approximate energy output in kj.

    [Warning: conspiracy theory! :)] For rapid weight loss another method that I have enquired about but haven't had much feedback on is a system called the "drip" (see earlier thread). Basically you drink a 4:1 carb to protein ratio "drink" in addition to your normal diet. The logic behind this is that your body is constantly "eating" which ups your base metabolic rate. Because of the continual intake of carbs you don't have the same problem as a low carb diet. That's about all I know, though it could be worth reading up on.

    Food for thought.
    (come on, that was a good one!)
     
  4. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Current progress: 188lbs - down 4lbs. Got 8-13lbs to go. The past week of low carb was difficult to maintain! Very difficult to train with any intensity and mental concentration was difficult at times. Had a couple lapses but made up the difference with more time on the bike.

    This week I'm switching diet to low protein (about 1/4 gram/day per lb of body weight) while still maintaining caloric deficit of about 700 per day. This will allow more intense workouts. There should be enough available amino acids in my bloodstream to maintain leg mass, but the upper body muscle mass should take a hit.

    I've researched that constantly changing up diet protocols maintains each diet's effectiveness as your body is not allowed time to adjust to the different nutritional environment. I'll keep you posted as to my progress...
     
  5. xbgs351

    xbgs351 New Member

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    So why does the low-weight/high rep upper body exercise called swimming make my upper body bulk up so much?
     
  6. FrankBattle

    FrankBattle New Member

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    Perhaps you do said exercise more than once a week?
     
  7. FrankBattle

    FrankBattle New Member

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    Outstanding!
     
  8. xbgs351

    xbgs351 New Member

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    Two or three time per week. I'd prefer to suffer when riding uphill from carrying extra uperbody weight, than to suffering from back pain.
     
  9. CapeRoadster

    CapeRoadster New Member

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    You're starting to make me a believer! That's awesome progress! But have you been able to maintain power on the bike?
     
  10. CapeRoadster

    CapeRoadster New Member

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    I swimming "low weight"? I carried a couple buckets of water yesterday; they're weren't so "low weight". Pushing water with hands, arms and legs can get anaerobic VERY quickly. Swimming, like running, could be either aerobic or anaerobic depending on how FAST you're going relative to your ability. Sprint swimmers look different than endurance swimmers, that's for sure. Further, if you are deconditioned, even swimming slowly could send you to an anaerobic zone very quickly, for example. Then you'd be developing Type II fiber.
     
  11. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    I've haven't tested my power stats, but my quick answer would be "no". I realized early on that I'm going to sacrifice some power at this time in order to reach my main objective - less mass to propel on the bike. Once I achieve my weight goal and can return to a more balanced diet, I foresee my power returning to a reasonably normal level. Best thing will be that my power-to-weight raito will have increased and that's the effort worthwhile!!:D
     
  12. CapeRoadster

    CapeRoadster New Member

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    You're a fast responder. More POWER to you! Yes, that was a pun.
     
  13. xbgs351

    xbgs351 New Member

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    The difference is that I was in the bucket, not carrying it - there is a big difference.

    I think the majority of my swimming is aerobic as I usually breathe every third (or often fifth) stroke. When I start breathing every second stroke I feel that I'm around my AT.
     
  14. CapeRoadster

    CapeRoadster New Member

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    Get a HR monitor and tell me. Maybe you're just genetically Type II dominant. What is your upper arm girth measurement?
     
  15. xbgs351

    xbgs351 New Member

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    Never measured my max HR swimming, but I usually swim at around 110 to 130 bpm (HR band will only stay on if wearing a wetsuit). My cycling max is 199. Upper arm girth measurement is 29 cm.
     
  16. CapeRoadster

    CapeRoadster New Member

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    Okay, how much has swimming grown your arms?

    Find out your swimming HRmax, too. Cycling and swimming HR max are often very different.
     
  17. xbgs351

    xbgs351 New Member

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    It's not so much the arms as the rest of the upper body. Probably an additional 4 kg (I weigh 74 kg, 177cm tall). I can only use the HR monitor with the wetsuit and my upper body has grown too big to fit in it. I suspect my upper and lower body may have a different ratio of Type I & II fibres. When I did tri's I weighed 67kg, was a 50th percentile swimmer, 5th percentile cyclist and 33rd percentile runner.
     
  18. skootaroo

    skootaroo New Member

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    Tony, I don't know if I matched your time frame but I've just dropped from 96kg to 80 kg @ 1kg/week to 83kg then 2kg/month to 81kg but now I'm still losing it at 1kg/month now at 78kg. Even over christmas it didn't stop. I hope you're still on track and that your plan pays off. I'm already breaking less equipment I just need to revise the plan to maintain my size now.
    P.S. I just took a guess at a new diet and measured the results, modified accordingly. I really should get a hrm at least to try to keep up to date.
     
  19. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to you! I definitely relaxed during the holidays (current weight 186) but I'm not concerned that I will reach goal of 180 by the end of February.

    What has been your protocol for the consistent weight loss? Myself and others would be interested to know...
     
  20. skootaroo

    skootaroo New Member

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    I've shifted from a high protine,eat what I want diet with a high load, sprint, technical (mtb) workout to a high carb eat all day and cycle comute of 40km.
    I am quite habitual and once I started, measuring the progress was easy, I had to add a few more snacks and I still have big salt cravings. On the bike I've been reworking my cadence and pedaling technique. NO SPRINTING oops only when I can't resist.
    I've done this because I believe I can be just as fast and lighter, riding lighter equipment with less breakage. If I can't then I guess I'll just put it all back on again!
    Lots of measurements!
     
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