Hamilton & Fuentes: w'll have to wait how it will develope But there is a big difference with other riders on the Fuenets list:Hamilton tested positive, it's better to compare him with Heras...bobke said:
Extensive drug dossier on Hamilton and Riis from 2003 - named in Operation Puerto
- Thread starter whiteboytrash
- Start date
The most amazing thing about that story was the 2nd place finisher - 51 years old! I'm inspired now.
As for Hamilton - give it up, dude. You're now the poster boy for what is wrong with the sport.
As for Hamilton - give it up, dude. You're now the poster boy for what is wrong with the sport.
nns1400 said:Are you saying you missed that article yesterday on Hamilton and how innocent he still is? It is an amazing piece of investigative journalism...um, I mean, ****. The title is great, though! Isn't bottling his competitive juices what got him in trouble in the first place.
Jim Fennell: Hamilton resumes long climb back to the top (New Hampshire Union Leader)
Tyler Hamilton had been waiting a year to release the competitive juices forcibly bottled up because of what he claims is a flawed system.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rs...12-057546723990
I was only kidding. Ease off man.bobke said:
But Tyler isn´t a case like jan or basso or amstrong. They are suspects of dopping. I think they are dopers,but yet to be proved.
Another thught with the amount of riders leaving US Postal, next year will be rich in positive tests ( only Kidding bobke, please don´t kill me!)
The title of this thread is about the alleged dossier on Hamilton in 2003, and my question is regards people saying they spoke to Jan's brother and everything will be fine, how is the Hamilton dossier different and any opinions how Hamiltons alleged dossier is being so openly published and stuff on Jan and Basso is evaporating?limerickman said:
PRobably an honest mistake, alot of people seem to want to make all test into EPO test, but Hamilton is suspended for failling a Blood test at the Vuelta, so e has failed a "doping" test.davidbod said:
...and this is different from the "Landis is innocent!!!!!" thread ?bobke said:
To be honest Tyler and more so Landis don't appear to understand the implications of what they are doing.... the Landis affair has left 30 people without a job, young riders who can’t get a contract, the sport in tatters with a sullied reputation and one man dead (may not be related but the timing suggests it might have had an impact)......
....it only takes a few dots to be joined; Hamilton on the gear with CSC moves to Phonak and steps up his programme, hears Landis is having some problems at Postal so gets him on board at Phonak (stated in text) then introduces him to Fuentes, does well in TdG, PN, Fuentes scandel breaks Landis gets off the gear and has a shocker at DL and at the start of Tour then when all the chips are down.... well we know the rest..... doing the gear doesn’t just impact the rider it impacts everyone….
acpinto said:why do you think LA never tested positive. (It´s confirmed, i´m obecessed by the Great cheater of all times)
Problem is with that attitude EVERYONE is a doper. Every rider in the peloton. You can never prove your clean. Every negative test is just more evidence that you've successfully cheated the system.
Is that your position. Every single rider is doped up to high heaven? If not, then your being a hypocrite.
WBT: Stop blaming the riders exclusively. Its the culture of doping promoted by the team management that's to blame. You really think that the riders aren't actively or tacitly encouraged. Its nonsense to dump on the riders and cut Riis and Co. total slack.
I do agree with you... Landis wasn't what made Phonak (the team not the sponsor) disband... it was the string of doping offences and yes I agree we can't just blame the riders... in all walks of life we are presented with moments when something could be considered cheating.... at work I take taxi's all the time and bill them to clients when its not client work.. its not morally right but you get away with so you keep doing it... same goes here.... an injection of vitamins for recovery turns into cortisone, then testosterone then EPO... The point I was trying to make that all the cyclists not just Landis need to understand the implications of what they are doing... even if the team is pressurizing them they need to stand firm..... if I was Landis I prefer to finish 11th than win and fail a doping test... his life is now in ruins and if he finished 11th and didn't use the gear then he could come back bigger and better next year...House said:
Not really.... what I was saying that HE knew the implications of what he was doing, he knew that after Ullrich, Basso et al were kicked off the Tour what a positive test could do.... yet he still went ahead and did it ? What did he expect ? Liberty pulled their sponsorship and he knew Andy Riis was busting a gut trying to get iShares to sign up and that they signed up under the proviso of “no drugs”.... he knew that 30+ people would lose their jobs but he still went ahead and did it... in 2 years time he better not come anywhere near the peleton because there are a lot of riders and staff (if they find new jobs) who want to tell him what they think..... to be frank I don’t think Landis will be welcome back in the peleton in any shape or form…House said:
Right. As Bob Roll said when he was here in Utah a few weeks back, you can't disprove a negative sample. Yet there are many that want to say, you're not really negative, you just didn't get caught....Serafino said:
L
Thanks for proving how clueless you are...again. Once again you go back to "it was Landis fault that 30+ people are out of work", which in your last post you went away from. Then you claim landis won't be wanted anywhere...like Virenque and many others? LOL. Typical WBT.whiteboytrash said:
Thank-you. I will add that in 2006 things are a LOT different than in 1999 post Festina. The tide has turned. Landis will be ostracised.House said:
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Doping on a level of sophistication as the dossier indicates couldn't have been just the rider. You think a strange person with a refrigerated container, blood heating equipment, and a transfusion setup can come and go, and not be noticed by other team members? Let's say they did it offsite - think the team doctor wouldn't notice the marks the transfusion IV needle leaves behind? It's a pretty large needle. Think the team doctor wouldn't notice the sudden leap in hematocrit? Oh, that just happened... yeah, right.
It's easy to demonize the riders. But, this is their job, and when the boss starts pushing them in a direction, it's either follow along or you don't ride. With four doping convictions in three years, Phonak's management wasn't pushing the riders to dope? That's how the low budget teams keep up with the heavy hitters, because it's the lower budget teams that get caught multiple times - Kelme, Phonak, Liberty... The very low budget Jean Delatour team got Laurent Roux on a solo breakaway during the Alpe d'Huez 2001 duel between Lance and Jan. Turns out, Roux was doped to the gills when he did it.
Everyone involved in cycling has been turning a blind eye to doping, making it easy to do. Both the UCI and WADA ignored valid tests for transfusing one's own blood, and as we've seen with the testosterone issue, the initial test is fairly easy to stay clear of. Institute a reticulocyte test for transfusions, and dump the T/E test in favor of a CI test, and you've solved both Puerto and the 06 Tour. A pity the 2006 season had to be wrecked to learn that simple lesson.
Until team leadership and governing body leadership commit to stopping doping, it will continue. Don't blame the riders - they're just the most visible sign. Blame the people who push them in that direction, because as long as the pressure is there, and the opportunity is there, riders will dope.
It's easy to demonize the riders. But, this is their job, and when the boss starts pushing them in a direction, it's either follow along or you don't ride. With four doping convictions in three years, Phonak's management wasn't pushing the riders to dope? That's how the low budget teams keep up with the heavy hitters, because it's the lower budget teams that get caught multiple times - Kelme, Phonak, Liberty... The very low budget Jean Delatour team got Laurent Roux on a solo breakaway during the Alpe d'Huez 2001 duel between Lance and Jan. Turns out, Roux was doped to the gills when he did it.
Everyone involved in cycling has been turning a blind eye to doping, making it easy to do. Both the UCI and WADA ignored valid tests for transfusing one's own blood, and as we've seen with the testosterone issue, the initial test is fairly easy to stay clear of. Institute a reticulocyte test for transfusions, and dump the T/E test in favor of a CI test, and you've solved both Puerto and the 06 Tour. A pity the 2006 season had to be wrecked to learn that simple lesson.
Until team leadership and governing body leadership commit to stopping doping, it will continue. Don't blame the riders - they're just the most visible sign. Blame the people who push them in that direction, because as long as the pressure is there, and the opportunity is there, riders will dope.
whiteboytrash said:
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