Extensive drug dossier on Hamilton and Riis from 2003 - named in Operation Puerto

[davidbod]

Doping on a level of sophistication as the dossier indicates couldn't have been just the rider. You think a strange person with a refrigerated container, blood heating equipment, and a transfusion setup can come and go, and not be noticed by other team members? Let's say they did it offsite - think the team doctor wouldn't notice the marks the transfusion IV needle leaves behind? It's a pretty large needle. Think the team doctor wouldn't notice the sudden leap in hematocrit? Oh, that just happened... yeah, right.

It's easy to demonize the riders. But, this is their job, and when the boss starts pushing them in a direction, it's either follow along or you don't ride. With four doping convictions in three years, Phonak's management wasn't pushing the riders to dope? That's how the low budget teams keep up with the heavy hitters, because it's the lower budget teams that get caught multiple times - Kelme, Phonak, Liberty... The very low budget Jean Delatour team got Laurent Roux on a solo breakaway during the Alpe d'Huez 2001 duel between Lance and Jan. Turns out, Roux was doped to the gills when he did it.

Everyone involved in cycling has been turning a blind eye to doping, making it easy to do. Both the UCI and WADA ignored valid tests for transfusing one's own blood, and as we've seen with the testosterone issue, the initial test is fairly easy to stay clear of. Institute a reticulocyte test for transfusions, and dump the T/E test in favor of a CI test, and you've solved both Puerto and the 06 Tour. A pity the 2006 season had to be wrecked to learn that simple lesson.

Until team leadership and governing body leadership commit to stopping doping, it will continue. Don't blame the riders - they're just the most visible sign. Blame the people who push them in that direction, because as long as the pressure is there, and the opportunity is there, riders will dope.

I would have to agree that it is certainly deeper than just the riders. The problem is that if one rider refused to take part and didn't perform as well as another who did juice, we all know who would be the rider getting the prestige and being touted by the team as their man. And if we do have credible riders in the peloton that do say no to the juice, the problem is there is always someone else willing to step up and over them to juice and do better.

Does anyone recall any team ever on their own accord stopping a rider because they the team deem the rider to be suspicious for doping. Clearly they would have to be turning a blind eye not to have direct evidence of this. It is a game of beating the system, and it takes more than just a single rider to do that. I suspect the equipment that teams use to check their riders is more there for beating the system than uncovering a doped rider.

Wasn't Phonak warned twice about Tyler during his last season of irregularities. And wasn't the response something along the lines of your equipment must be miss calibrated because ours shows everything is in check?

 

[wineandkeyz]

at work I take taxi's all the time and bill them to clients when its not client work..

Why am I not surprised?

 

[whiteboytrash]

Why am I not surprised?

...when I go down I'm taking the peleton with me !

 

[wineandkeyz]

...when I go down I'm taking the peleton with me !

But aren't you worried about all of the other people you'll put out of work when your clients find out you've been bilking them, and take their business elsewehere?

 

[whiteboytrash]

Good post... this from Simeoni today (from another thread):

"I am a hundred percent with Gianni Bugno, when he spoke yesterday in the Giornale. The team-managers and team medical staff must take their share of the responsibility. It’s not right that when a rider is in trouble they wash their hands of him. It is their responsibility too. Look at the CSC Team of Ivan Basso. Before the Tour they loose Basso and then they almost win it with Sastre. Did it make much difference to them? It is essential to change. Ullrich is involved? In that case his team should have been forced to stop until they have given a full explanation. Only then would you see the managers begin to really keep a close eye on their riders, and not be able to say they know nothing. They are the first to encourage doping”

There are some very professional and correct teams. Look at Liquigas: I know that they are very well disciplined. But they are not getting any results. On the other hand we know that about sixty riders are “working” with Fuentes- how can Liquigas hope to win?

Doping on a level of sophistication as the dossier indicates couldn't have been just the rider. You think a strange person with a refrigerated container, blood heating equipment, and a transfusion setup can come and go, and not be noticed by other team members? Let's say they did it offsite - think the team doctor wouldn't notice the marks the transfusion IV needle leaves behind? It's a pretty large needle. Think the team doctor wouldn't notice the sudden leap in hematocrit? Oh, that just happened... yeah, right.....

 

[whiteboytrash]

But aren't you worried about all of the other people you'll put out of work when your clients find out you've been bilking them, and take their business elsewehere?

Shite ! I'm doing an audit now and covering my tracks.... but I'll leave a few receipts on my bookcase as a reminder never to cheat again....

 

[whiteboytrash]

But the following day, in the Sunday edition of Danish newspaper Politiken, new claims were made, which detail the American rider’s alleged drug use during the 2003 season - while riding for CSC - after the newspaper acquired a ‘doping calendar’, which the Spanish police, the Guardia Civil, obtained as part of the Operacion Puerto investigation into doping in cycling in Spain.

EPO, growth hormone, testosterone and insulin are attributed to rider ‘4142’, used over a period of 114 days in just a seven-month period in 2003. The same rider was due to receive two blood transfusions during that year’s Tour de France, according to the calendar.

It is alleged that the code name ‘4142’ was used by Hamilton – by both the Spanish police and by Politiken, who came to the conclusion by comparing the American’s race calendar and results with the obtained calendar

 

[helmutRoole2]

Then you claim landis won't be wanted anywhere...like Virenque and many others? LOL. Typical WBT.

Virenque admitted his drug use. I don't think you'll see Landis do the same. It seems he's sticking to the Hamilton model: Deny, deny, deny and those nitwits left believing are you fan base.

 

[JohnO]

Postal suspended a rider (was it Noval?) back around 2000 due to irregularities, but teams are not exactly anixous to publish that information. At least, they weren't at the time - no one was openly talking about doping back then. They are now.

Hamilton was warned by the UCI in spring 2004 that his blood looked funny, not enough reticulocytes, which was an indication of autologus blood doping. The UCI didn't follow up on that, Phonak appeared to do nothing (hey Andy - too bad you weren't so anti-doping back then), Fuentes got his blood bags mixed up, and the rest is history.

Even if one rider decided to speak out, their chance of making a difference is slight. The team would discredit the rider, show a troubled history, say that the rider was just making things up to divert attention from themself. That's how it works in the corporate world with whistleblowers, don't see why a multimillion dollar team would be any different.

The top stars? Doping or not, they're not going to upset a boat that's bringing in 1 - 1.5 million a year in salary, plus three times that in endorsements. Ride for ten years, then retire and never work again at age 35. Hell, I'd juice up on EPO for that sort of payoff.

I would have to agree that it is certainly deeper than just the riders. The problem is that if one rider refused to take part and didn't perform as well as another who did juice, we all know who would be the rider getting the prestige and being touted by the team as their man. And if we do have credible riders in the peloton that do say no to the juice, the problem is there is always someone else willing to step up and over them to juice and do better.

Does anyone recall any team ever on their own accord stopping a rider because they the team deem the rider to be suspicious for doping. Clearly they would have to be turning a blind eye not to have direct evidence of this. It is a game of beating the system, and it takes more than just a single rider to do that. I suspect the equipment that teams use to check their riders is more there for beating the system than uncovering a doped rider.

Wasn't Phonak warned twice about Tyler during his last season of irregularities. And wasn't the response something along the lines of your equipment must be miss calibrated because ours shows everything is in check?

 

[helmutRoole2]

The top stars? Doping or not, they're not going to upset a boat that's bringing in 1 - 1.5 million a year in salary, plus three times that in endorsements. Ride for ten years, then retire and never work again at age 35. Hell, I'd juice up on EPO for that sort of payoff.

Same here.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Even if one rider decided to speak out, their chance of making a difference is slight. The team would discredit the rider, show a troubled history, say that the rider was just making things up to divert attention from themself. That's how it works in the corporate world with whistleblowers, don't see why a multimillion dollar team would be any different. The top stars? Doping or not, they're not going to upset a boat that's bringing in 1 - 1.5 million a year in salary, plus three times that in endorsements. Ride for ten years, then retire and never work again at age 35. Hell, I'd juice up on EPO for that sort of payoff.

You're right.... I'd dope to for that sort of cash and retirement package... good post… one thing to mention is the risk to 'use' is worth it..... if you get busted then you still keep the cash... thats why I wondered why Hamilton spent what he did on his appeals.... although on the VeloNews website it said he had already invested well and had made a lot of money.....

 

[cyclingheroes]

Virenque admitted his drug use. I don't think you'll see Landis do the same. It seems he's sticking to the Hamilton model: Deny, deny, deny and those nitwits left believing are you fan base.

Well it took some time before Virenque admitted this...

 

[meehs]

You're right.... I'd dope to for that sort of cash and retirement package... good post… one thing to mention is the risk to 'use' is worth it..... if you get busted then you still keep the cash... thats why I wondered why Hamilton spent what he did on his appeals.... although on the VeloNews website it said he had already invested well and had made a lot of money.....

I agree it would be hard to not dope knowing what kind of payoffs are at stake. Plus it seems as though using the current PED's is a reasonably low-risk proposition. Especially if you're working with a "doctor". In recent years we haven't heard of too many deaths or serious illnesses as a result of PED's like we did in the eighties and early ninties. I could be wrong about this but that's the impression I get. I think there may be some truth to Ferrari's infamous "safe as orange juice if used properly" statement.

 

[poulidor]

I agree it would be hard to not dope knowing what kind of payoffs are at stake. Plus it seems as though using the current PED's is a reasonably low-risk proposition. Especially if you're working with a "doctor". In recent years we haven't heard of too many deaths or serious illnesses as a result of PED's like we did in the eighties and early ninties. I could be wrong about this but that's the impression I get. I think there may be some truth to Ferrari's infamous "safe as orange juice if used properly" statement.

It's better to not affraid his customers. Ok PED's without "doctor" is more dangerous.
But a real doctor says: "Medicine drugs, used properly, are always less safe than orange juice".

 

[cyclingheroes]

By the way: at Eneco again no Riis, somebody wrote in another thread that Riis had a holiday, well he has had holidays since July 23, i wish i had such a long holiday....

 

[Martin Jackson]

Well it took some time before Virenque admitted this...

Yeah, but he cried, man. That means something in my book. He cried hard too. He was like, "I'm a doper... boo ******' hoo!" And I was all, "Man, you gotta let the ****a back in the peloton if he's crying up in his own press confrence." And Lance was like, "If they ever catch me, I'm crying too."

Then I axed him, "Caught for what? I thought you didn't do that ****?" And he was all, "Hummm, ahhh... get caught picking my nose." And then I was all, "Of course. No one wants to get caught with their finger up their nose scatching for golden nuggets."

My momma used to say, "Go on, Martin. Pick a winner," and I'd be like, "F-you momma!" Oh, daddy'd whip the tar out of me.

 

[tcklyde]

I agree it would be hard to not dope knowing what kind of payoffs are at stake. Plus it seems as though using the current PED's is a reasonably low-risk proposition. Especially if you're working with a "doctor". In recent years we haven't heard of too many deaths or serious illnesses as a result of PED's like we did in the eighties and early ninties. I could be wrong about this but that's the impression I get. I think there may be some truth to Ferrari's infamous "safe as orange juice if used properly" statement.

I agree that for the elite level riders, working with a Doctor, things might be sort of safe. The problem is that the young guys and the support riders have to dope to keep up and they don't have the $$$ to pay for a comprehensive program. So maybe they fill their own needle one day and do it wrong. How many times have we heard of a DNF with stomach problems. How many times is that something drug induced?

 

[musette]

Postal suspended a rider (was it Noval?) back around 2000 due to irregularities, but teams are not exactly anixous to publish that information. At least, they weren't at the time - no one was openly talking about doping back then. They are now.

You're wrong on Noval. He joined after 2000. In fact, it was a surprise to many (except myself) that, in 2004, the first year he joined the team, he made the TdF squad. He got dropped in the TTT, and was crying at the end of the stage. But he still got in within the time limit.

 

[JohnO]

It's almost a damned lottery. All the time, boosted by team management, and glossed over by the governing organizations. The UCI wants the money to continue to roll in, while WADA has this problem with a loose cannon rolling around on the deck. With those clowns in charge, how hard could doping be?

One of the reasons (possibly the prime reason in my opinion) that cycling is having this problem is that the sport itself is particularly vulnerable to advanced medicine, as it places such great emphasis on endurance. Granted, there are a lot of other skills, and a lot of hard work, but it's not like a tennis player can juice up and immediately hit a better serve. Cycling today combines endurance and big money - none of the other endurance sports have this sort of budget. So put big bucks and a big (albeit illegal) boost together, toss in a couple of befuddled referees, and you get... now let's not all shout the answer at the same time...

This problem will remain with cycling for as long as medicine and sponsors exist. Hopefully, the UCI will see the error of it's ways as sponsors continue to drop out, and WADA will put someone at the helm who has less personality and more impartiality.

It recovered from Festina, it will recover from this.

You're right.... I'd dope to for that sort of cash and retirement package... good post… one thing to mention is the risk to 'use' is worth it..... if you get busted then you still keep the cash... thats why I wondered why Hamilton spent what he did on his appeals.... although on the VeloNews website it said he had already invested well and had made a lot of money.....

 

[JRMDC]

It recovered from Festina, it will recover from this.

It appears now that it didn't recover from Festina, it merely ignored Festina, shoving that historical interlude aside as quickly as it could, but Festina wasn't an instance, it was and is at the core of the sport.

Cycling will continue, maybe with fewer sponsors, with lower budgets, maybe with fewer riders chasing dreams.

Heck, even boxing continues, and who pays attention to boxing anymore?