External-bearing BBs?

[Hank]

On May 13, 1:11 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > Chalo wrote:
>
> > > Hank wrote:
>
> > > > bfd wrote:
>
> > > > > Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
> > > > > external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:
>
> > > > >http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard Set.htm
>
> > > > Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!
>
> > > Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
> > > or later there will be other issues.
>
> > As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
> > sing!"
>
> > I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
> > an old frame.
>
> It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
> You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
> smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
> thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
> new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
> obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
> Fwench (and worn out).
>
> Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
> real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
> that probably has more bad surprises in store.
>
> Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
> of it.
>
> Chalo

Oh, no argument there...95% of the value in my PX-10 (updated with a
full Campy Centaur group, aside from the PW BB) is sentimental, since
I've had the thing since I was 13 (I turn 35 next month). For so many
years, I built up in my head what a great bike it was, I was kind of
taken aback when I tried out bikes with, well, BETTER geometry than
the parallel 74s of my PX-10. I don't see myself ever getting rid of
it, but if something happened to it, I'd happily replace it with a
Mercian King of Mercia to fill my "lugged Reynolds classy European
bike with room for fenders & 28mm tires" slot.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > Chalo wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank wrote:
> > > >
> > > > bfd wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
> > > > > external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard Set.htm
> > > >
> > > > Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!
> > >
> > > Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
> > > or later there will be other issues.
> >
> > As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
> > sing!"
> >
> > I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
> > an old frame.
>
> It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
> You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
> smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
> thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
> new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
> obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
> Fwench (and worn out).

In fairness to France, the Internet has made it a lot easer. To sum up:
YST universal BB, $20. Headset: ISO 1". Fork: recycle off of whatever
similar-vintage non-French bike you can lay your hands on. Lather,
rinse, repeat.

> Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
> real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
> that probably has more bad surprises in store.
>
> Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
> of it.

Can't do that. I have already sold off a Peugeot, a Raleigh, and a
Motobecane (might have even had Swiss threads) in the last few weeks.
All the frames (along with an Ascente Prolite with triple-fade paint)
sold for cash and parts (new 165mm MTB cranks, woot!) which I will
either put on my bike, put in my pile, or turn into beer.

I turned French and English bikes into beer and MTB parts! You hear
that, Chalo? I am an alchemist of the awesome!

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > a reasonable cost.
>
> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!!

 

[bfd]

On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > a reasonable cost.
>
> > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > size.  For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>
> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>
> For once, Barnum was wrong!!

I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
wheel:

http://www.bikelugs.com/store/index.php?intCategoryID=3

This may be what is needed to make 650B mainstream! Stay tune....

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<679f0f6f-b3ca-4253-8c7d-639365f73bf6@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
bfd <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > > a reasonable cost.
> >
> > > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > > size.  For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
> >
> > Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
> >
> > For once, Barnum was wrong!!
>
> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> wheel:

I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
Bigger wheels really are better.

--
Michael Press

 

[landotter]

On May 14, 1:55 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <679f0f6f-b3ca-4253-8c7d-639365f73...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > > > a reasonable cost.
>
> > > > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > > > size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > > > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>
> > > Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > > appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > > joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > > folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > > and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > > that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>
> > > For once, Barnum was wrong!!
>
> > I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> > Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> > 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> > those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> > Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> > have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> > Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> > including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> > wheel:
>
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.
>

See my slightly tongue in cheek "Paselagasm" thread. That's 32 on
622.--and you're right, it's better than just about anything. But
that's not the point. It's a Schick and Gillette sorta deal.

 

[A Muzi]

>>>> Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
>>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
>>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
>>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
>>>>> a reasonable cost.

>>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
>>>> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
>>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

>> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
>>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
>>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
>>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
>>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
>>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>>> For once, Barnum was wrong!!

> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
>> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
>> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
>> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
>> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
>> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
>> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
>> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
>> wheel:

Michael Press wrote:
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.

Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
suggestion' :

http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 

[bfd]

On May 14, 11:55 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.
>
> --
OK, with this logic, then the new upcoming Bombadil MTB should be alot
better than the current offering as its 584mm wheel, that can use
tires like the Pacenti Neo-Moto 650bx2.3, is bigger and should be
better than any 26" (559mm) mtb in existence!

 

[Chalo]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> > first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> > don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> > affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> > people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
> > of it.
>
> Can't do that. I have already sold off a Peugeot, a Raleigh, and a
> Motobecane (might have even had Swiss threads) in the last few weeks.
> All the frames (along with an Ascente Prolite with triple-fade paint)
> sold for cash and parts (new 165mm MTB cranks, woot!) which I will
> either put on my bike, put in my pile, or turn into beer.
>
> I turned French and English bikes into beer and MTB parts! You hear
> that,Chalo? I am an alchemist of the awesome!

Rad!

Now if you can find an old Lambert and turn it into weed, then you
will have completed the Three Great Quests that qualify you as a
Venerable Wizard in the Fraternal Order of Single-Speed MTB Racers.

Chalo

 

[bfd]

On May 14, 12:14 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>  Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> >>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> >>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> >>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> >>>>> a reasonable cost.
> >>>  bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> >>>> size.  For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> >>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
> >> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> >>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> >>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> >>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> >>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> >>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
> >>> For once, Barnum was wrong!!
> >  bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet!  With the weak US dollar,
> >> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> >> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> >> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> >> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> >> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> >> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> >> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> >> wheel:
> Michael Press wrote:
> > I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> > for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> > for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> > as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> > Bigger wheels really are better.
>
> Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
> suggestion' :
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
>   <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>   Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Interesting. Did you spec'd it with 700c (622mm) wheels? It doesn't
look like there's alot of clearance for a front fender.

On a side note, I've seen exactly two riding around in the SF Bay
Area. Both were older folks just cruizin' around. Seems very expensive
(they cost what, about $2500-3500 to build up!) for a cruizer....

 

[bfd]

On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > a reasonable cost.
>
> > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > size.  For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>
> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>
> For once, Barnum was wrong!!


Hot off the press (or at least from the RBW list):

"Grant currently has only indirect access to the list, so he forwarded
me an
update on some of the recent topics we've been discussing here -
everything
beyond the line are his words.

---------------


Bleriot etc:
I got tired of too many dealers de-dignifying it as a loss leader, and
so
I'm just pulling the plug on the whole Bleriot program. That means
that
after about late June, no dealer who doesn't have them will be able to
get
them. We'll then be obligated to buy up QBP's stock, which will give
us
enough 'riots for a few months, maybe even through winter.
They will not go on sale; still $750.


The QBP partnership was pleasant, I have only the best things to say
about
QBP, but it was about a dozen and a half dealers that sealed the
Bleriot's
fate.


We could, I suppose, continue to get them ourselves. But the original
deal
was created with the help of QBP's trading company, and it wouldn't be
fair
for us to tie up its time with business that no longer involves QBP.
So
rather than put them in the position of "handing off" the Bleriot deal
to a
competitor trading company--after they'd worked so hard on the
details--I'm
just going to kill the fine bike and start fresh with another trading
company and a few more bikes, which--if all goes well which it hardly
ever
does--will be ready in about January, March, May, and July of 2009.


The concepts are: Cheap Quickbeam, cheap A. Homer/Saluki, cheap
Atlantis,
and cheap Mixte. The plan is four sizes each: 48-52-56-60, all with 6-
deg
upsloping top tubes (like Bombadil), so each size will fit a wider
rage of
leglengths/riders.


I say "cheap," but the quality will be the same as the Bleriot. Made
in
Taiwan. Our lugs, crowns, bb shells, tube pick, 'ame & 'phics, all
that.
Probably they'll be one-color (no cream head tube), and m-m-may retail
for
$700 or a hair less (not $699.99!).


Our minimums per bike are 150. So, four sizes is about 37 each, which
will
give us good depth and stock for a while.


Meanwhile, we are getting in a last run of real Quickbeams---70 of
them late
this summer, in Silver with blue graphics.


Toyo's production is low and slow on the normal bikes, so we're
supplementing it with Wford A. Homers and then some Atlantis frames.
Toyo
sort of expects to catch up in about 9 months, but I'm not optimistic,
and
that's why we're relying on Wford to fix the slack.


Customs: Curt's on his own now, and we're training a new builder (new
to
us). I know this guy, have for 25 years, he's done repairs for us for
3
years, he does NOT have his own brand and says he wants nothing to do
with
it, and I actually believe him. First he'll build 30 protovelos for
us--or
however many it takes for him to get his groove and get really
comfortable
with the particulars of our bikes.


I'm tired of frustrations, but overall things are really good. We have
a new
(second) full-time shipper; Miesha's back and here with her baby
(Freddy)
and doing well. The site is getting better. We'll soon have
instructional
youtube videos for various things we get asked about all the time
(twine,
shellac, mounting racks, and then just fundamentals like fixing
flats)."


A few interesting thoughts:

> Customs: Curt's on his own now, and we're training a new builder (new to
> us). I know this guy, have for 25 years, he's done repairs for us for 3
> years, he does NOT have his own brand and says he wants nothing to do with
> it, and I actually believe him. First he'll build 30 protovelos for us--or
> however many it takes for him to get his groove and get really comfortable
> with the particulars of our bikes.
>
I wonder if this *new* builder is John Tallerico, who formerly worked
out of a space next to the Bicycle Outfitter in Los Altos. He does
pretty good work, so it should help.

> I'm tired of frustrations

Is the frustration because dealers have made the Bleriot a loss-
leader? Or is the cheap dollar really hurting business?

What' is interesting in this update is that on the new line of "Cheap
Quickbeam, cheap A. Homer/Saluki, cheap Atlantis, and cheap Mixte." GP
doesn't mentioned the use of the 650B wheel size. Past QBs used 700c,
AHH was only 700c (now 650B in small sizes), Saluki is discontinued,
and Atlantis has always been offered in 26" (559) and 700c. What's up
with that?

 

[landotter]

On May 14, 2:36 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 14, 12:14 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > >>>> Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > >>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > >>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > >>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > >>>>> a reasonable cost.
> > >>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > >>>> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > >>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
> > >> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > >>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > >>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > >>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > >>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > >>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
> > >>> For once, Barnum was wrong!!
> > > bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> > >> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> > >> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> > >> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> > >> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> > >> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> > >> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> > >> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> > >> wheel:
> > Michael Press wrote:
> > > I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> > > for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> > > for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> > > as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> > > Bigger wheels really are better.
>
> > Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
> > suggestion' :
>
> >http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Interesting. Did you spec'd it with 700c (622mm) wheels? It doesn't
> look like there's alot of clearance for a front fender.
>
> On a side note, I've seen exactly two riding around in the SF Bay
> Area. Both were older folks just cruizin' around. Seems very expensive
> (they cost what, about $2500-3500 to build up!) for a cruizer....

Think about it. $3k gets you a swanky bike with drums, custom bits--
everything you could possibly imagine to order, and in the end a
reliable machine that will last ya a lifetime. Even if you're not
going fast--nice parts still make a bike sweet to ride. Guess ya never
spent time in Europe--the $1200 city bike is a common "price point"
bike there.

Alternately, you can join the herd, spend $35k on a Harley, make it
look like a lampshade, and waste Saturdays dusting out the cooling
fins.

BTW, are those *white* rims??!!

Value is relative.

 

[A Muzi]

>>>>>> Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
>>>>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
>>>>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
>>>>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
>>>>>>> a reasonable cost.
>>>>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
>>>>>> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
>>>>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>>>> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
>>>>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
>>>>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
>>>>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
>>>>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
>>>>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>>>>> For once, Barnum was wrong!!

>>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
>>>> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
>>>> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
>>>> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
>>>> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
>>>> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
>>>> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
>>>> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
>>>> wheel:

>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
>>> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
>>> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
>>> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
>>> Bigger wheels really are better.

> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
>> suggestion' :
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

bfd wrote:
> Interesting. Did you spec'd it with 700c (622mm) wheels? It doesn't
> look like there's alot of clearance for a front fender.
> On a side note, I've seen exactly two riding around in the SF Bay
> Area. Both were older folks just cruizin' around. Seems very expensive
> (they cost what, about $2500-3500 to build up!) for a cruizer....

It's a "650B" frame built here with 700-28 Paselas (& 1010B frame ends!).
Sometimes it isn't about price. Name a 'comparable' teal color girl
frame with cutaway lugs that's actually available.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 

[A Muzi]

landotter wrote:
> BTW, are those *white* rims??!!
> Value is relative.

uh, _vintage_ white rims. French to boot!
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 

[Frank Krygowski]

On May 14, 4:23 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 14, 1:04 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>> Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > >>>>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > >>>>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > >>>>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > >>>>>>> a reasonable cost.
> > >>>>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > >>>>>> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > >>>>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
> > >>>> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > >>>>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > >>>>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > >>>>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > >>>>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > >>>>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
> > >>>>> For once, Barnum was wrong!!
> > >>> bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> > >>>> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> > >>>> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> > >>>> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> > >>>> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> > >>>> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> > >>>> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> > >>>> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> > >>>> wheel:
> > >> Michael Press wrote:
> > >>> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> > >>> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> > >>> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> > >>> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> > >>> Bigger wheels really are better.
> > > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
> > >> suggestion' :
> > >>http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
> > bfd wrote:
> > > Interesting. Did you spec'd it with 700c (622mm) wheels? It doesn't
> > > look like there's alot of clearance for a front fender.
> > > On a side note, I've seen exactly two riding around in the SF Bay
> > > Area. Both were older folks just cruizin' around. Seems very expensive
> > > (they cost what, about $2500-3500 to build up!) for a cruizer....
>
> > It's a "650B" frame built here with 700-28 Paselas (& 1010B frame ends!).
> > Sometimes it isn't about price. Name a 'comparable' teal color girl
> > frame with cutaway lugs that's actually available.
>
> Good point, no offense intended, but it is interesting that you used
> 700c wheels instead of the ones that were designed for that frame.
>
> I do like the use of 1010B dropouts too.
>
> As for "girl" frames, its my understanding that Soma is planning on
> coming out with one soon:
>
> http://somafab.blogspot.com/2008/04/soma-mixte-frame.html
>
> However, since its not here yet, the Riv was basically your only
> choice n.

The Soma has twin small diameter "top tubes." The Riv uses a single
large diameter top tube.

I know from experience that twin tube mixtes lack rigidity, as one
poster commented on that site. In ordinary riding the one we had was
mostly fine, but with a set of heavily loaded panniers, the bike
shimmied alarmingly when climbing a short, steep hill. The back end
sort of wagged around. Moving the load to front panniers fixed
things.

The other oddity with that bike was this: It began making amazingly
loud clanking sound, once every pedal revolution, but only when
pushing hard uphill. I mean loud enough that a guy 75 feet away would
turn around to see what the noise was. But when I inspected the bike,
turned the cranks, spun the wheel, etc., all seemed in order.

It baffled me for a couple days until I noticed the end of the
aftermarket Esge kickstand had been knocked close to the spokes.
Under heavy pedal pressure, the frame flexed enough for the rear
spokes to slap the kickstand partly open. It returned home with a
loud "clank."

The bike is a Raleigh Record. It's on its third owner, much upgraded,
and still going strong after 34 years. But only with light loads in
back.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[landotter]

On May 14, 4:08 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > BTW, are those *white* rims??!!
> > Value is relative.
>
> uh, _vintage_ white rims. French to boot!

Ohhhh, yeah!

Now, if I could get one of those hubs to shift with a bar-end
shifter...

 

[Andre Jute]

On May 14, 8:14 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

> Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
> suggestion' :
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

I look at that set of pictures and I think, "Lucky lady," just in
general, to have a bike that someone knowledgeable designed with
passion and built with care for the details, and to have a dealer
willing and capable of making alterations. Then I wonder why the
dealer didn't give her wider tires, say 37mm -- I am horrified every
time I read someone who thinks 32mm is a wide tire... I can't imagine
how people's hands can take the constant vibration.

But is that wheel somehow odd or is it what it seems, a 700c wheel?

Why the devil should customers accept an additional wheel size to the
common 559 and 622? I know why Pacenti and Rivendell did it: for the
commercial advantage of their "own" near-proprietary format, the same
way Shimano tries time and again to establish a proprietary format,
but I agree with the dealers who sold the Bleriot as a loss leader, an
odditiy, and with their customers, who clearly wouldn't pay the full
price (or the dealers would have taken the money and pretended they
were selling tormorrow's bikes).

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE & CYCLING.html

 

[landotter]

On May 14, 5:27 pm, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 14, 8:14 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
> > suggestion' :
>
> >http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
>
> I look at that set of pictures and I think, "Lucky lady," just in
> general, to have a bike that someone knowledgeable designed with
> passion and built with care for the details, and to have a dealer
> willing and capable of making alterations. Then I wonder why the
> dealer didn't give her wider tires, say 37mm -- I am horrified every
> time I read someone who thinks 32mm is a wide tire.

32 is a very wide tire for road use. 28mm for a small boned woman like
in the photo is a great choice for an upright, yet speedy city bike.
It should allow for a 35mm wide chromoplast fender to fit quite neatly
if desired.

We don't do much cobble over here.

 

[Clive George]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> 32 is a very wide tire for road use. 28mm for a small boned woman like
> in the photo is a great choice for an upright, yet speedy city bike.
> It should allow for a 35mm wide chromoplast fender to fit quite neatly
> if desired.

Indeed. Rural Ireland was certainly famous for having dreadful road
surfaces - and I suspect the smaller roads haven't improved.

28s on the solo big wheel road bikes here.

cheers,
clive

 

[Andre Jute]

On May 14, 11:49 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > 32 is a very wide tire for road use. 28mm for a small boned woman like
> > in the photo is a great choice for an upright, yet speedy city bike.
> > It should allow for a 35mm wide chromoplast fender to fit quite neatly
> > if desired.
>
> Indeed. Rural Ireland was certainly famous for having dreadful road
> surfaces - and I suspect the smaller roads haven't improved.

Ireland has enjoyed an economic boom since about 1990 and it shows in
the roads. The potholes are gone, and the one-car lanes I ride on
daily have been resurfaced several times since the last time there
were potholes in them. I can't remember when I last suffered the
vampire fang twin punctures characteristic of crashing through a
pothole at speed. And, mark this, I've been cycling on these roads for
almost two decades and never once wrecked a rim, something legend
relates about Irish potholes (alongside the drunken Kerryman who fell
off his bike and drowned in a pothole...).

> 28s on the solo big wheel road bikes here.

I didn't say it was otherwise, I said that it seems to me that once
more the fashion in cycling is wrong, this time at the expense of RSI
in cyclists' hands and wrists. Mind you, a couple I run into most
weekends, when I saw them last weekend had moved up to 35mm tires and
were questioning me about ergonomics and how I found North Road bars,
and they aren't old fogies either, more like mid-thirties, still
supple enough to contort themselves to "racing" postures without too
much distress.

Zero cobbles too; that's France, and only in pieces they save to send
low-tipping bike tourists over.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE & CYCLING.html