Fast 40k German style

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Greg Hall, Jun 23, 2003.

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  1. Greg Hall

    Greg Hall Guest

    Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?

    From cyclingnews.com:

    German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003

    Elite Men - 40 km

    1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65

    U23 Men - 40 km

    1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12
     
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  2. Crystal

    Crystal Guest

    Slight downhill with a huge tailwind!!!

    Crystal

    "Greg Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?
    >
    > From cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003
    >
    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65
    >
    > U23 Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    > Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12
     
  3. Greg Hall wrote:
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?
    >
    > From cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003
    >
    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65

    Well, Rich IS the World TT Champion....didn't Peschel ride in the pursuit squad too? Chris Boardman
    did a 45 some years ago just before he set his first Hour record. On the road in an RTTC event.

    But, very impressive to have 3 at the top that close.

    >
    > U23 Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    > Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12

    These are even more impressive for U-23s.
     
  4. those results are easy - just measure 35k and call it 40

    Rope

    "Greg Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?
    >
    > From cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003
    >
    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65
    >
    > U23 Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    > Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12
     
  5. Flashsteve

    Flashsteve Guest

    These results are surprising, but not unrealistic. A guy from our small city did an acccurately
    measured dead-flat, out and back 40K in the mid-47's about 15 years ago.

    Steve Scarich

    PS He was also the National TT Champion that year.
     
  6. "FlashSteve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > These results are surprising, but not unrealistic. A guy from our small
    city
    > did an acccurately measured dead-flat, out and back 40K in the mid-47's
    about
    > 15 years ago.
    >
    > Steve Scarich
    >
    > PS He was also the National TT Champion that year.

    Yeah, but the Germs' aren't riding at 6000 ft ASL in Moriarity, New Mexico.

    And you've got your dates wrong:

    Bostick won in 1985 (Wisconsin) & 1991 (Salt Lake City), but set his 40k record (high 47) in 1990,

    Frey won in 1988 (Spokane) and like Bostick, set his record (47:35) in 1990.

    Hegg won the Natz TT in 1990 (Albany, NY).
     
  7. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Stewart Fleming <[email protected]> wrote:

    : Greg Hall wrote:
    :>
    :> German Time Trial Championships - CN
    :>
    :> Elite Men - 40 km
    :>
    :> 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56

    That's very impressive on closed roads. Way fast.

    : Chris Boardman did a 45 some years ago just before he set his first Hour record. On the road in an
    : RTTC event.

    He did a 25 mile TT (nearly but not quite the same as 40k). On the road, but with traffic (which
    would help rather than hinder) on an out-and-back course.

    For reference, here's the RTTC 25 mile comp records (from their website)

    25 Miles, Bicycle 1944 C. Cartwright Manchester Clarion C.&A.C. 59:18 1946 B.B. Francis Solihul C.C.
    58:49 1946 B.B. Francis Solihull C.C. 58:35 1949 G.F.Fell Becontree Wheelers C.C. 58:00 1951 R.
    Inman Mercury Road Club 57:17 1951 D.J. Keeler Vegetarian V.&.A.C. 57:15 1951 D.J. Keeler Vegetarian
    V.&.A.C. 57:11 1952 S.F. Higginson Halesowen A.&.C.C. 57:08 1953 S.F. Higginson Halesowen A.&.C.C.
    56:32 1953 S.F. Higginson Halesowen A.&.C.C. 56:24 1955 W. Holmes Hull Thursday R.C. 56:05 1955 N.
    Sheil Molyneux R.C. 55:51 1955 W. Holmes Hull Thursday R.C. 55:49 1958 D.S. Evans Acme Wheelers
    (Rhondda) 55:45 1959 A. Shackleton North Lancs R.C. 55:38 1959 A.R. Engers Barnet C.C. 55:11 1961 C.
    McCoy Melling Wheelers 55:01 1962 D.C. Bonner Old Portlians C.C. 54:28 1964 B. Breedon Conisborough
    Ivanhoe C.C. 54:23 1965 M.J.V. Burrow Crest C.C. 54:04 1965 P.A. Bennett Barnet C.C. 53:31 1966 D.
    Dungworth Rutland C.C. 53:18 1966 T. Morgan Barnet C.C. 52:56 1966 D. Dungworth Rutland C.C. 52:28
    1969 A.R. Engers Polytechnic C.C. 51:59 1969 A.R. Engers Polytechnic C.C. 51:00 1978 E.J. Adkins
    Velo Club Slough 50:50 1978 A.R. Engers Unity C.C. 49:24 1990 P. Longbottom Manchester Wheelers Club
    49:13 1991 J. Pritchard, BEM Polytechnic C.C. 48:28 1991 G. Dighton Manchester Wheelers Club 48:07
    1992 C. Boardman G.S. Strada 47:19 1993 C. Boardman, MBE North Wirral Velo 45:57

    --
    Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
    Lord Lester
     
  8. Arthur Clune wrote:

    > He did a 25 mile TT (nearly but not quite the same as 40k). On the road, but with traffic (which
    > would help rather than hinder) on an out-and-back course.

    Yeah, OK. And the course he did it on had a"ski-slope" start and a split finish (just within
    regulations). It's also the fixed-gear national record (I think)

    > For reference, here's the RTTC 25 mile comp records (from their website)

    <snip>

    > 1959 A.R. Engers Barnet C.C. 55:11

    > 1969 A.R. Engers Polytechnic C.C. 51:59 1969 A.R. Engers Polytechnic C.C. 51:00\

    > 1978 E.J. Adkins Velo Club Slough 50:50 1978 A.R. Engers Unity C.C. 49:24

    Alf Engers. What a character.
     
  9. Greg Hall

    Greg Hall Guest

    I was so tempted to do this when promoting the TX state TT champs back in 1999. The extra 5k was the
    straw that broke the race budget's back.

    Greg "Still in my club's doghouse over that one" Hall

    "Rope <-- Huh?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > those results are easy - just measure 35k and call it 40
    >
    > Rope
     
  10. "Greg Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I was so tempted to do this when promoting the TX state TT champs back in 1999. The extra 5k was
    > the straw that broke the race budget's back.
    >
    > Greg "Still in my club's doghouse over that one" Hall
    >
    > > those results are easy - just measure 35k and call it 40
    > >

    Ok, I'm going a little philosophical here. I think having TT's of varying distance and terrain is a
    good thing in general, but when it comes to championships, I am a traditionalist. We all know that
    different courses and conditions create different times, but few people go to a championship without
    a personal time goal to beat. I believe having a set TT distance is as important to the competitors
    as having track distances are to those who ride time trials on the track. Given that tracks are of
    varying distances (Alpenrose, Dick Lane, and Northbrook come to mind) where some time trials are
    started in the bends in order to fit the proper distance, why does the same "adjustable distance"
    logic not apply?

    Unfortunately for road TTs, it is getting harder and more expensive to secure roads long enough
    for a 40k out and back course, as Greg found out. These reasons wee why the USCF chose not to
    require a 40k distance for TTs (starting in 1999, I think). I understand the reasoning, but I
    don't care for it.
     
  11. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Greg Hall <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?

    > From cyclingnews.com:

    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003

    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65

    Others have mentioned the possibility of course or weather conditions that could lead to some good
    results. Another thing to consider is that the US sucks in time trialing. With the exception of
    LANCE and maybe Tyler there really aren't any exceptional US time trialists and certainly none that
    show up for the national championships. So just because no times like this are coming out of the US,
    that doesn't mean they are not happening.

    Consider, the US record was set at high altitude on a flat, straight road. Here is a race with
    results comparable to the best ever US performance:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/mitt.html

    One difference is that the latter race was run at sea level. Another is that it was run on a
    technical course. Still another was that the race was run in!the!freakin'!rain!

    That's why a guy like Wohlberg, who is good but not exactly setting the world on fire, can knock a
    minute off the best time at US nationals like he did a few years back. The US sucks.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  12. Mortdubois

    Mortdubois Guest

    > Consider, the US record was set at high altitude on a flat, straight road. Here is a race with
    > results comparable to the best ever US performance:
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/mitt.html
    >
    > One difference is that the latter race was run at sea level. Another is that it was run on a
    > technical course. Still another was that the race was run in!the!freakin'!rain!

    > Bob Schwartz [email protected]

    This is just my perception, but I think that it is easier to ride fast in the rain (except for the
    need to slow on technical descents). Also excepting cold rain. But on a warm summer day, riding in
    the rain feels like flying. Could it be that the water (which is a good lubricant) increases
    drivetrain efficiency? And doesn't very warm humid air give lower resistance than cold, dry air? And
    it also aids body cooling, so you put more energy into the pedals.

    Mort
     
  13. Aruno

    Aruno Guest

    [email protected] (Greg Hall) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?
    >
    > From cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003
    >
    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65
    >
    > U23 Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    > Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12

    Would say: Watch out for the Team Gerolsteiner in the TDF Team Tim Trial.
     
  14. "FlashSteve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I was referring to Karl Maxon, still a Eugene, Oregon resident. I said
    'about
    > 15 years ago' because I do not remember the exact year.
    >
    > Steve

    Oohh, my bad.

    Maxon won in 1986 (Ten Speed Drive Imports, probably).

    I'll concede to you. I was basing my point on a memory that when Frey went
    47:35 people seemed to think it was very impressive, not a 'it's been done before' kind of thing.
     
  15. "FlashSteve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I was referring to Karl Maxon, still a Eugene, Oregon resident. I said
    'about
    > 15 years ago' because I do not remember the exact year.

    Holy cow, Karl Maxon - a name from the past.

    Thanks for the memory jog, Steve.

    -kraig
     
  16. "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Yeah, OK. And the course he did it on had a"ski-slope" start and a split
    finish
    > (just within regulations). It's also the fixed-gear national record (I
    think)

    Sorry Stewart, but he did it on the old Didcot course in Oxfordshire (now banned due to the very
    high traffic flow on the A34).

    You are thinking of the Marlow by pass course which is in Berkshire.

    You are right that he was on "fixed", 110" from memory.

    Paul (Lived in Didcot when he did it) Wakerley
     
  17. Herb Crites

    Herb Crites Guest

    According to the 3rd place U23 with whom I ride, it was an out-and-back, 40 km, wide, smoothly paved
    course with one small climb at the turnaround. Winds were calm.

    Herb

    "Greg Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Wonder what kind of course and conditions produced these amazing results?
    >
    > From cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > German Time Trial Championships - CN Germany, June 15, 2003
    >
    > Elite Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) 45.46.56 2 Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) 0.21.79 3 Sebastian Lang
    > (Gerolsteiner) 1.12.65
    >
    > U23 Men - 40 km
    >
    > 1 Markus Fothen (RSC Turbine Erfurt) 48.20.10 2 Peter Magyarosi (RV Adler Kuppingen) 0.37.15 3
    > Andreas Schillinger (SSV Gera 1990) 1.06.12
     
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