Fast Freddy vs. Joshua G.

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by William Meacham, Mar 5, 2003.

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  1. Fast Freddy vs. Joshua G.

    Given all the debate going on about Fast Freddy's new bent and Joshua G's opinion of said bent I
    only think it is fair to compare the two sources of this dispute (Given the limited amount of
    information available). So here goes...

    Passion

    Both Fast Freddy and Joshua G. are passionate about what they believe
    in. In Fast Freddy's case, we have seen first hand his strong belief that Tour Easy Recumbents are
    the best on the market without exception. He has defended this belief time and again. He also
    has very strong opinions on OSS vs. USS.

    In Joshua G's case, we have seen first hand his strong belief on Recumbents, Economics, Americans,
    Car Drivers, Guns, Teachers and many, many other topics. His passion is very strong, but his topics
    can be very OT.

    Advantage: Even. Both are very passionate about their beliefs and are not afraid to say so.

    Knowledge

    Fast Freddy has many years of experience racing, building and selling recumbents. He has had great
    success in each of these cases and still is successful today. Many people would consider him a
    "Seasoned and highly respected Professional" with the emphasis placed on the word Professional.

    Joshua G. uses recumbent bicycles and trikes for commuting and recreational purposes. I have not
    seen any evidence that would show that he has any experience beyond this. His attempts to bring a
    Recumbent Trike to market have resulted in what many people would call "Vapor Ware". His proposed
    business strategies and his critiques of the business strategy of several long time bent
    manufacturers have been very questionable.

    Advantage: Fast Freddy (Big time)

    Communication Skills

    Fast Freddy has a tendency to be very blunt in what he says and does not sugar coat anything.
    Because of this, there have been times when he has drawn the ire of some people (including me)

    Joshua G. is very articulate and excels at spinning a tall tale. His writing shows a great sense of
    humor as well as irony. Some of his posts have had people rolling in the aisles and others just
    shaking their heads in disbelief. In almost all cases they are well written. He does have a tendency
    when replying to posts to misquote or to quote out of context in what is believed to be an attempt
    to garner a greater response.

    Slight Advantage: Joshua G.

    Values

    Fast Freddy spends his time raising his children, building and selling recumbents and racing
    recumbents. This is evidenced by his history in racing and his work at Easy Racers as well as by the
    quote given below and the fact that his children now race with him.

    Post by Ken33: "Over lunch, Freddy and I talk about his experience at the 1976 Olympics, his Race
    Across America bid, and how much he loves his kids. What a nice guy. "

    Joshua G. revels in creating, participating in and reporting confrontational situations. He also has
    shown a tendency to be very irresponsible in regards to the safety of his daughter as shown by his
    post quoted below.

    "I destroyed the .357 after I walked in on my daughter and one of her girlfriends playing Russian
    Roullete with it. When I took it away I poitned out that if the Safety had not been on...one of them
    would have been dead. For reasons unknown I showed the girls how to remove the safety and then I put
    it down on a desk and went to make a coffee. The girlfriend (still thinking it was a toy or a
    replica) pointed it at the livingroom window and fired."

    Advantage: Fast Freddy

    Summary:

    Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in
    his mouth.

    Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with his tall
    tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who eventually becomes a mean
    drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone wishes would just leave.

    Conclusion:

    Well… you know my conclusion.

    William Meacham Mesa, AZ
     
    Tags:


  2. William U write good and I agree with most of it. btw my 5 kids don't like bicycles, they only liked
    cars. The Tall Tales part I must disagree with, lying has never been something I was good at and
    therefore I have avoided doing it.

    I have said this before to quite a few "regulars" on this NG who send me private Email, I see myself
    (often) as the person who provides Comic Relief to a NG that sometimes takes itself too seriously
    and ends in people getting hurt. By my sending the NG off in a new direction I can (sometimes) get
    people to laugh at themselves...and at me. The thread about the Calfee bent however was Not part of
    this distraction/humour routine I sometimes bring into the NG.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------

    "William Meacham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Fast Freddy vs. Joshua G.
    >
    > Given all the debate going on about Fast Freddy's new bent and Joshua G's opinion of said bent I
    > only think it is fair to compare the two sources of this dispute (Given the limited amount of
    > information available). So here goes...
    >
    > Passion
    >
    > Both Fast Freddy and Joshua G. are passionate about what they believe
    > in. In Fast Freddy's case, we have seen first hand his strong belief that Tour Easy Recumbents
    > are the best on the market without exception. He has defended this belief time and again. He
    > also has very strong opinions on OSS vs. USS.
    >
    > In Joshua G's case, we have seen first hand his strong belief on Recumbents, Economics, Americans,
    > Car Drivers, Guns, Teachers and many, many other topics. His passion is very strong, but his
    > topics can be very OT.
    >
    > Advantage: Even. Both are very passionate about their beliefs and are not afraid to say so.
    >
    > Knowledge
    >
    > Fast Freddy has many years of experience racing, building and selling recumbents. He has had great
    > success in each of these cases and still is successful today. Many people would consider him a
    > "Seasoned and highly respected Professional" with the emphasis placed on the word Professional.
    >
    > Joshua G. uses recumbent bicycles and trikes for commuting and recreational purposes. I have not
    > seen any evidence that would show that he has any experience beyond this. His attempts to bring a
    > Recumbent Trike to market have resulted in what many people would call "Vapor Ware". His proposed
    > business strategies and his critiques of the business strategy of several long time bent
    > manufacturers have been very questionable.
    >
    > Advantage: Fast Freddy (Big time)
    >
    > Communication Skills
    >
    > Fast Freddy has a tendency to be very blunt in what he says and does not sugar coat anything.
    > Because of this, there have been times when he has drawn the ire of some people (including me)
    >
    > Joshua G. is very articulate and excels at spinning a tall tale. His writing shows a great sense
    > of humor as well as irony. Some of his posts have had people rolling in the aisles and others just
    > shaking their heads in disbelief. In almost all cases they are well written. He does have a
    > tendency when replying to posts to misquote or to quote out of context in what is believed to be
    > an attempt to garner a greater response.
    >
    > Slight Advantage: Joshua G.
    >
    >
    > Values
    >
    > Fast Freddy spends his time raising his children, building and selling recumbents and racing
    > recumbents. This is evidenced by his history in racing and his work at Easy Racers as well as by
    > the quote given below and the fact that his children now race with him.
    >
    > Post by Ken33: "Over lunch, Freddy and I talk about his experience at the 1976 Olympics, his Race
    > Across America bid, and how much he loves his kids. What a nice guy. "
    >
    > Joshua G. revels in creating, participating in and reporting confrontational situations. He also
    > has shown a tendency to be very irresponsible in regards to the safety of his daughter as shown by
    > his post quoted below.
    >
    > "I destroyed the .357 after I walked in on my daughter and one of her girlfriends playing Russian
    > Roullete with it. When I took it away I poitned out that if the Safety had not been on...one of
    > them would have been dead. For reasons unknown I showed the girls how to remove the safety and
    > then I put it down on a desk and went to make a coffee. The girlfriend (still thinking it was a
    > toy or a replica) pointed it at the livingroom window and fired."
    >
    > Advantage: Fast Freddy
    >
    > Summary:
    >
    > Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in
    > his mouth.
    >
    > Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with his tall
    > tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who eventually becomes a
    > mean drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone wishes would just leave.
    >
    > Conclusion:
    >
    > Well. you know my conclusion.
    >
    >
    > William Meacham Mesa, AZ
     
  3. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    William Meacham wrote:

    > Summary:
    >
    > Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in
    > his mouth.
    >
    > Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with his tall
    > tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who eventually becomes a
    > mean drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone wishes would just leave.

    But will potential customers of a $3000 bike care either way?
     
  4. Paul Bruneau <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > William Meacham wrote:
    >
    > > Summary:
    > >
    > > Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in his
    > > mouth.
    > >
    > > Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with his
    > > tall tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who eventually
    > > becomes a mean drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone wishes would just
    > > leave.
    >
    > But will potential customers of a $3000 bike care either way?

    First off, why does it matter if it is a $3000 bike that Fast Freddy wants to produce. If
    Bacchetta, Rotator or Reynolds Weld Lab introduced a high dollar bike (and they have) would people
    be screaming "foul!!!"

    But to give my answer to the question...

    With a low cost product I don't believe that customers care that much about the reputation of the
    company. If it's cheap enough, it becomes worth the risk.

    With a high dollar product, reputation becomes very important. Two recent examples demonstrate this
    very well.

    1) Bacchetta. The gentlemen who started this company are established professionals with a great
    reputation. People were anxious to see the new product and even where there were initial
    problems they knew the company would stand behind their product.

    2) Bigha. The people that are trying to produce this bike have pretty much blown their credibility
    through the BikeE fiasco. Their attempts to promote this bike have been meet with ridicule and
    biting sarcasm on this discussion group and others[1]. Their chances of launching a high dollar
    product do not look overly promising given these responses.

    Blowhard Meacham Mesa, AZ

    [3]Now in the big picture of recumbentsy (is that a word?) I don't think that these discussion
    groups mount to a hill of beans. What I mean is that if you think that what you state on this
    board has a direct effect on the industry, you need to let some air out of your overinflated ego
    (Joshua???). We are all pretty much a bunch of blowhards sitting around the barber shop talking
    crap[2]. I do believe however, that this bunch of blowhards is a pretty good indicator of what
    the bent community is thinking as a whole.

    [4]There are exceptions. One of the neatest things about this board is that major players in the
    industry will throw in their two cents worth every now and then. If one of them writes in, I can
    almost see this whole group stop arguing with each other and listen to what is said.
     
  5. "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > William U write good and I agree with most of it. btw my 5 kids don't like bicycles, they only
    > liked cars. The Tall Tales part I must disagree with, lying has never been something I was good at
    > and therefore I have avoided doing it.
    >
    > I have said this before to quite a few "regulars" on this NG who send me private Email, I see
    > myself (often) as the person who provides Comic Relief to a NG that sometimes takes itself too
    > seriously and ends in people getting hurt. By my sending the NG off in a new direction I can
    > (sometimes) get people to laugh at themselves...and at me. The thread about the Calfee bent
    > however was Not part of this distraction/humour routine I sometimes bring into the NG.
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ----------
    >

    tall tale
    n : an improbable (unusual or incredible or fanciful) story Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton
    University

    Just because I say that you tell tall tales doesn't mean I'm saying you lie (OK, once I said you
    lied). I just believe that you like to imbellish the truth a little.

    In the case of the Calfee thread, maybe you are the one who has taken yourself to seriously. Hmmmm?
    Maybe you should take a step back, calm down, (Sober up you mean drunk), realize that you where out
    of line and appologize to Fast Freddy and the group.

    Tall tale.

    I grew up in a town where it was so windy it took four men and a boy to nail a cowhide over
    a keyhole.

    Wild Bill Meacham Mesa, AZ
     
  6. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    > With a high dollar product, reputation becomes very important. Two recent examples demonstrate
    > this very well.
    >
    > 1) Bacchetta. The gentlemen who started this company are established professionals with a great
    > reputation. People were anxious to see the new product and even where there were initial
    > problems they knew the company would stand behind their product.
    >
    > 2) Bigha. The people that are trying to produce this bike have pretty much blown their credibility
    > through the BikeE fiasco. Their attempts to promote this bike have been meet with ridicule and
    > biting sarcasm on this discussion group and others[1]. Their chances of launching a high dollar
    > product do not look overly promising given these responses.

    I would put it that the fact that Bacchetta made a bike FOR THIS CROWD (not all of us, but certainly
    of the "sporting" persuation) has a heck of a lot more to do with their reception in the bent
    community. And the fact that Bigha made a bike for wedgie rider transitionals and not the speed
    demons, with their reception. After all Cannondale had as fine a rep as anyone, and folks here were
    lining up to take shots at their "trans-bike". Easy to way to tell, change the Baccetta bikes to
    Bigha labels and vice versa. WHich bike is now more appealing?
     
  7. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    William Meacham wrote:
    > Paul Bruneau <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>William Meacham wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Summary:
    >>>
    >>>Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in
    >>>his mouth.
    >>>
    >>>Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with
    >>>his tall tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who
    >>>eventually becomes a mean drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone
    >>>wishes would just leave.
    >>
    >>But will potential customers of a $3000 bike care either way?
    >
    >
    > First off, why does it matter if it is a $3000 bike that Fast Freddy wants to produce. If
    > Bacchetta, Rotator or Reynolds Weld Lab introduced a high dollar bike (and they have) would people
    > be screaming "foul!!!"

    Dearest fellow LWB USS rider:

    I'm not screaming foul. I wish every bent manufacturer all the luck in the world. I was just trying
    to understand how that "a.r.b.r. scorecard" related to proposed sales of a bike (which happens to
    cost $3000). I have no opinion on the bike or anything.
     
  8. Well Paul I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people
    should be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,000.00 for the bent (is not) such a high price when you
    consider the Fairing alone (with) mounting hardware will be a major slice of the total price,
    fairings with mounting hardware are NOT cheap. I would think most recreational riders would prefer
    their fairing to be clear, but some like the solid look too....(when) angled properly....see
    HPV-Heaven in the U.K. re: a solid black shell fairing at a more reasonable angle. I would guess
    that the individual components of the Calfee bent will justify most of the $3K asking price....if it
    ever gets to market. AND I also wish Fast Freddy all the best and hope his design does sell (after
    Dec.31, 2003 so I gets me money).

    As for William Meacham (below) On the Mean Drunk lashing out at ANYTHING Well if you look at
    Google Advanced you'll see that in the over 2,000 messages I posted to this NG....this Fast
    Freddy/Calfee bent was the ONLY time I lashed out. I was even saying nice things about the BigHa
    when everyone else was digging a hole and burying it alive. Very little ever affects me the way
    the Fast Freddy/Calfee bent did and I guess I saved it all up and let it rain down on the design
    from Fast Freddy.

    As for your suggestion that I should apologize to Fast Freddy and the NG....No Way, I only offered
    my Opinion as someone who has been bent 25 years and went through 15 bents....none socked, but 3
    faired. I was NOT Expecting the Spanish Inquisition (minus the Comfy Chair)-->(Mikael enter Python
    here) for offering my Opinion. I was hoping Fast Freddy (would) think about what problems I saw and
    see if they were valid...NOT respond by threatening me and then offering me $$ to leave this NG.
    Seems Fast Freddy ONLY wants happy smiling people in this NG who like leaning forward kissing his
    ASS...(above seat steering).

    You know William, when you start asking people to Apologize for offering their Opinion, then people
    will stop offering their Opinion, lose interest in the NG and leave. If it wasn't for people like
    Tom Sherman, Mikael, Tom Blum, Gator (before the lobotomy) Bob, Carol.C. and Doug Huffman & a few
    others this NG would be BORING and a mindless NG limited to Technical Q & A and void of any emotion.
    IMHO Opinions MUST be tolerated here. Censorship SUCKS.

    Still think you folks should just elect me as your leader and let me decide how this NG should be
    run. Hmmmm "King Joshua de Bent"...sounds good to me.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------
    "Paul Bruneau" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > William Meacham wrote:
    > > Paul Bruneau <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > >>William Meacham wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Summary:
    > >>>
    > >>>Fast Freddy is a respected professional and family man who has a tendency to put his foot in
    > >>>his mouth.
    > >>>
    > >>>Joshua G. is like the guy who comes into the bar and livens up the place for a while with his
    > >>>tall tales, extravagant business plans, quick wit and flamboyant style, but who eventually
    > >>>becomes a mean drunk, lashing out at anything coming his way, that everyone wishes would just
    > >>>leave.
    > >>
    > >>But will potential customers of a $3000 bike care either way?
    > >
    > >
    > > First off, why does it matter if it is a $3000 bike that Fast Freddy wants to produce. If
    > > Bacchetta, Rotator or Reynolds Weld Lab introduced a high dollar bike (and they have) would
    > > people be screaming "foul!!!"
    >
    > Dearest fellow LWB USS rider:
    >
    > I'm not screaming foul. I wish every bent manufacturer all the luck in the world. I was just
    > trying to understand how that "a.r.b.r. scorecard" related to proposed sales of a bike (which
    > happens to cost $3000). I have no opinion on the bike or anything.
     
  9. "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > I was NOT Expecting the Spanish Inquisition (minus the Comfy Chair)-->(Mikael enter Python here)
    > for offering my Opinion.

    I can't. Cardinal Biggles has a hangover from yesterday.

    M.
     
  10. Damn 2 years ago I was doing a Philosophy course and as it turned out my Professor (female) was a
    really big Monty Python fanatic who had memorized every line from their Flying Circus skits and
    movies. Then I arrived. We Hijacked the entire class and no one had a clue what was happening (young
    folk who knew NOT about Python). It got very silly after a few weeks and the final straw was when
    she asked all the students who was more important in Philosophy...Albert Camus, Plato or John
    Cleese. Most said Cleese...thinking that since she and I spent soooo much time talking about Cleese,
    they reasoned he WAS a Giant in Philosophy.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > > I was NOT Expecting the Spanish Inquisition (minus the Comfy Chair)-->(Mikael enter Python here)
    > > for offering my Opinion.
    >
    > I can't. Cardinal Biggles has a hangover from yesterday.
    >
    > M.
     
  11. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Damn 2 years ago I was doing a Philosophy course and as it turned out my Professor (female) was a
    > really big Monty Python fanatic who had memorized every line from their Flying Circus skits and
    > movies. Then I arrived. We Hijacked the entire class and no one had a clue what was happening
    > (young folk who knew NOT about Python). It got very silly after a few weeks and the final straw
    > was when she asked all the students who was more important in Philosophy...Albert Camus, Plato or
    > John Cleese. Most said Cleese...thinking that since she and I spent soooo much time talking about
    > Cleese, they reasoned he WAS a Giant in Philosophy.

    Back on topic: http://www.bike-repair-man.de/brm-en.htm !!

    Jeff Wills (son of a Philosophy major who went on to honest work: he became a history professor! His
    latest: http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/fall01/032278.htm )
     
  12. Derek Swift

    Derek Swift Guest

    > I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people should
    > be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,000.

    How do we know this actually happened?

    > Censorship SUCKS.

    So does this entire thread.

    Derek
     
  13. You DON'T know it actually happened, but since I did "save" his emails and the one offering me the
    $1,000. was printed and Framed (since it is so rare anyone offers me $ for being correct)....I could
    send you a copy if you wanna read it.
    -------------------------------------------
    "Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people
    > > should be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,000.
    >
    > How do we know this actually happened?
    >
    > > Censorship SUCKS.
    >
    > So does this entire thread.
    >
    > Derek
     
  14. Derek Swift

    Derek Swift Guest

    I suppose it was smart on Fast Freddy's part to e-mail you this proposal or challenge...if he did. I
    say "smart" and "if" because this could have easily have been e-mail generated by anyone.

    Personally, I do not care how this turns out. If he wins, a bent hits the market. If you win, you
    are $1,000 richer.

    Derek

    In <[email protected]> Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    > You DON'T know it actually happened, but since I did "save" his emails and the one offering me the
    > $1,000. was printed and Framed ( since it is so rare anyone offers me $ for being correct)....I
    > could send you a copy if you wanna read it. ------------------------------------------- "Derek
    > Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> > I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people
    >> > should be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,
    >> > 000.
    >>
    >> How do we know this actually happened?
    >>
    >> > Censorship SUCKS.
    >>
    >> So does this entire thread.
    >>
    >> Derek
    >
     
  15. E-Mail generated by someone else? I checked his email address with his email address stored in my
    address book from last year (same address). Seems (as I have been told by others), Fast Freddy has
    sent them some pretty emotionally charged emails when they dared to disagree with him. He only
    appears every few months on the NG, seems to really dislike people who do not agree with him and
    then he dissappears again.

    *Personally I'd enjoy having someone with his bent experience asking/answering questions on this NG
    more often...should liven the Group up more. It would however be a bad thing if every post turns
    into a flame war with non-stop attacks on his character.

    I wasn't being critical of Fast Freddy initially, I was just of the opinion the Calfee prototype was
    NOT something anyone would buy (if) it went to market (as is). I assumed being a prototype it would
    be changed and then I got nailed.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------
    "Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I suppose it was smart on Fast Freddy's part to e-mail you this proposal or challenge...if he did.
    > I say "smart" and "if" because this could have easily have been e-mail generated by anyone.
    >
    > Personally, I do not care how this turns out. If he wins, a bent hits the market. If you win, you
    > are $1,000 richer.
    >
    > Derek
    >
    >
    > In <[email protected]> Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    > > You DON'T know it actually happened, but since I did "save" his emails and the one offering me
    > > the $1,000. was printed and Framed ( since it is so rare anyone offers me $ for being
    > > correct)....I could send you a copy if you wanna read
    it. -------------------------------------------
    > > "Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >> > I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people
    > >> > should be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,
    > >> > 000.
    > >>
    > >> How do we know this actually happened?
    > >>
    > >> > Censorship SUCKS.
    > >>
    > >> So does this entire thread.
    > >>
    > >> Derek
    > >
    > >
     
  16. Derek Swift

    Derek Swift Guest

    > E-Mail generated by someone else?

    Yeah. It is extremely simple to generate an e-mail and make it look like someone else sent it. I am
    NOT saying this is the case. The only way you would know is by reading the headers.

    All I was getting at was that anyone could have typed the e-mail. So sending it to someone to prove
    a point would be useless. For instance, say you e-mail the original to someone...how do they know
    that you did not write it? I have read posts by you before this usenet thread atrocity and I do not
    think you would do such a thing. My point was that the concrete evidence is not that concrete.

    If the newsgroup had seen this cyber urination match ourselves, I am sure the believability would be
    slightly better.

    Good luck on this, J. I will now bow out of this thread being as it is ridiculously long without
    another idiot (me) adding their two cents worth.

    Derek
     
  17. I agree, this has gone on way too long. Hopefully Gardner Martin took away the camera from Gabe and
    the whole crew are now busy getting the prototype into production (in case we do get summer) LOL
    --------------------------------------------------
    "Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Good luck on this, J. I will now bow out of this thread being as it is ridiculously long without
    > another idiot (me) adding their two cents worth.
    >
    > Derek
     
  18. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Derek Swift wrote:
    >
    > > I had an Opinion on the Fast Freddy bent and was offered $1,000.00, seems like more people
    > > should be rewarded with such $ offers. $3,000.
    >
    > How do we know this actually happened?
    >
    > > Censorship SUCKS.
    >
    > So does this entire thread.

    But not as much as the prairie dog catcher.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
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