Fat People and Bike Racing

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Steve Gaylor, Jan 23, 2003.

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  1. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Guest

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:04:48 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> The French laugh at low-fat diets.
    >
    >That's because you have to get your calories wherever you can, in a city where an apple
    >costs 2 bucks!

    People say the same thing about New York, Tokyo, etc., and it may be true if you are buying an apple
    in a resturant and not from a street fruit/vegatable store.

    Sparhawk
     


  2. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Guest

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:49:54 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> One of the easiest places to spot the difference is in restaurants. No,
    >not
    >> what or how much they're eating--the Americans usually aren't the ones chain-smoking through the
    >> entire meal.
    >
    >My German housemate used to say he was having a "French breakfast" -- coffee and a cigarette!
    >
    >Matt O.

    Or an American fighter pilot's breakfast... A smoke, a coke and a puke.

    Sparhawk
     
  3. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Guest

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:36:36 GMT, heather halvorson <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    >Sparhawk wrote:
    >>
    >> Fat people will dismiss the results of ANY test that shows them to be fat.
    >
    >wrong. i know plenty of fat people and most of them admit to it. why, just to take an example from
    >rbr, henry chang has admitted to his fat problem at least once, iirc.
    >
    >heather

    Yeah but Henry is not really fat, he just thinks that he is.

    I should have said " Some fat people...".

    It's a big, big (no pun intended) problem in the U.S. <g>

    Sparhawk
     
  4. "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BA4509C7.1EF25%[email protected]...
    > in article BA44F82F.1A916%[email protected], steve at [email protected] wrote on 01/10/2003
    > 11:22 PM:
    >
    > > On 1/10/03 9:48 PM, in article BA44FE39.1EF13%[email protected],
    "Steven
    > > L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> And FATTIE STEVIE!!!!!!
    > >
    > > Sorry "prison boy" skinny Stevie....................
    >
    >
    > "Prison boy" skinny???? HA!
    >
    > I'm 5'9" and currently weigh 181 lbs. I'm fat and I know it.
    >
    >
    > > That came from your boyfriend Henrietta only
    >
    >
    > Sweetie Stevie ... he was obsessed with you, not me. And it seemed you
    had
    > a similar obsession back ...

    Those 2 guys are whacked out.

    I like that photo that Fattie Stevie posted of himself last year. Very flattering. I've never seen a
    finer athletic specimen.

    Does anyone have that link? I'd like to make it my wallpaper.
     
  5. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:04:48 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >> The French laugh at low-fat diets.
    > >
    > >That's because you have to get your calories wherever you can, in a city where an apple costs
    > >2 bucks!
    >
    > People say the same thing about New York, Tokyo, etc., and it may be true if you are buying an
    > apple in a resturant and not from a street fruit/vegatable store.

    No, in Tokyo they're 4 bucks.

    Matt O.
     
  6. Mike Elliott

    Mike Elliott Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes
    compellingly...
    >
    > "Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:04:48 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > >news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >> The French laugh at low-fat diets.
    > > >
    > > >That's because you have to get your calories wherever you can, in a city where an apple costs 2
    > > >bucks!
    > >
    > > People say the same thing about New York, Tokyo, etc., and it may be true if you are buying an
    > > apple in a resturant and not from a street fruit/vegatable store.
    >
    > No, in Tokyo they're 4 bucks.
    >

    And they are the best darned apples you've ever eaten. The Japanese take their food very seriously.

    MikeE
     
  7. Sparhawk wrote:
    >
    >
    > Yeah but Henry is not really fat, he just thinks that he is.

    yeah, i agree, but it's still fun for immature types like me to tease him about it.

    > I should have said " Some fat people...".

    ok then :)

    heather
     
  8. Comutrbob

    Comutrbob Guest

    >Most of the Masters Racers I know weigh more than that. They get enough exercise, but it seems a
    >little dieting would be in order. Especially since most of them consider themselves to be
    >"athletes".

    I don't think the BMI figures you're citing take into account the incredible muscle mass (which
    weighs more than fat) that many cyclists carry in their legs and butts. I'm 47 years old, 5'6" tall
    and weigh 156. Aint no way in the world I'm overweight. That's not to say I couldn't use to lose
    three or four pounds, but for the most part, I'm ALL thighs and butt (muscle).

    I think you need more data than that index to judge someone's fitness. I have fantastic blood
    pressure (I can never remember the numbers, but I know the doc is always very impressed) and I have
    a resting pulse rate that's 38 in peak season and around 44 right now. My cholesterol is under 200.

    But I guess I better freak out because my BMI says I'm a pound overweight. That's a crock. Those
    kind of measures are for the average Joe Blow out there.

    Having said all that, it wasn't that long ago that I used to "ride to eat" figuring that, at roughly
    300 miles per week, nothing was gonna stick. Then one day I popped up with a cholesterol level of
    255. You've gotta eat smart no matter what!

    Bob C.
     
  9. Ilan Vardi

    Ilan Vardi Guest

    "Steve Gaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Why is it that our culture consumes so much food compared to other cultures? There are more fat
    > people at a USCF race than there is in the street in Paris.

    Well, I live in Paris, so maybe I can try to explain this. First, many of these Parisian people
    are "skinny fat", that is, normal weight, zero muscle, so look OK bundled up, which is consistent
    with the almost fanatical disapproval of shorts (that's how you spot American tourists), which
    conceal the stick-like legs. Indeed, muscle is not considered a desirable characteristic except
    for the gay population which, in Paris at least, is the only subculture in which weight lifting is
    considered OK.

    Apart from obvious genetic factors, another explanation for the dirth of overweight people is the
    fact that more people smoke, and that, unlike the US, smoking is not invariably associated with poor
    diet and zero exercise. There is also the hectic and tense big city lifestyle, which means lots of
    calories expended with not too much time for big eating. I also noticed when in New York City that
    there weren't many obese people among the Yuppie working class.

    Finally, I have to admit that I also have been puzzled by the true statement about master's racing.
    I am also not very skinny, and it comes as a surprise to me how much fitter I am than most muscular
    looking younger people.

    -ilan
     
  10. Daniel Mendoza wrote:
    >
    > In an article I read a couple years ago, BMI was dissed and ran ragged to the ground. Reason? The
    > arguably fittest boxer, Evander Holyfield, was deemed overweight using BMI. His aerobic and
    > anaerobic capacities were incredible (resting heart rate of roughly 40 if I remember correctly)
    > and nobody can doubt his strength. However, the silly little number said he was overweight and
    > thus at risk for heart diease, etc. A better indicator is %body fat IMHO.

    Any height to mass ratio by itself doesn't really describe the body type by itself, as evidenced by
    the mistaken "analysis" of Evander Holyfield. Somatotyping gives a far more complete description of
    physical "type." If you "knew somatotyping," had never heard of Greg Lemond, and I said "Lemond is a
    2-6-3" you would instantly have better picture in your mind of his physical appearance and makeup
    than if a simple height to mass ratio alone was given. Powerful and conditioned athletes are never
    misidentified as "overweight" when the somatotyping method is used.
     
  11. Actually, no I'm not fat. I would be willing to bet you are far fatter than I am, Sparhawk. I was
    just trying to state that no test if foolproof. Sure, there are fat racers but as a norm (as has
    been agreed for the most part), most athletes can have higher BMIs because of different factors such
    as higher bone density and greater muscle mass. Do you have muscle mass, Sparhawk?

    Daniel

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Sparhawk wrote:

    > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:06:56 -0500, Daniel Mendoza <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >In an article I read a couple years ago, BMI was dissed and ran ragged to the ground. Reason? The
    > >arguably fittest boxer, Evander Holyfield, was deemed overweight using BMI. His aerobic and
    > >anaerobic capacities were incredible (resting heart rate of roughly 40 if I remember correctly)
    > >and nobody can doubt his strength. However, the silly little number said he was overweight and
    > >thus at risk for heart diease, etc. A better indicator is %body fat IMHO.
    > >
    > >Daniel
    >
    > Fat people will dismiss the results of ANY test that shows them to be fat.
    >
    > The BMI is only a general guideline and not meant to be an absolute indicator of health.
    >
    > To use a superbly conditioned althlete as an example of why the test is fauly is really foolish.
    >
    > Are you fat Daniel?
    >
    > Sparhawk
     
  12. Top Sirloin

    Top Sirloin Guest

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:23:28 GMT, "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Top Sirloin wrote:
    >> On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:02:47 GMT, "Steve Gaylor" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm
    >>>
    >>>BMI Categories: Underweight = <18.5 Normal weight = 18.5-24.9 Overweight = 25-29.9 Obesity = BMI
    >>>of 30 or greater
    >>
    >>
    >> BMI is worthless if you're doing anything besides sitting on the couch inhaling twinkies.
    >>
    >> So I'm going to get ridiculed if I show up for a Cat 5 crit at 6'1", 210lb and 8% bf?
    >>
    >
    >Yeah, but not for what you think.

    Not having $2000 wheels? :)

    -Scott Johnson "be a man ,stop looking for handouts , eat ,lift and shut your mouth" -John Carlo
     
  13. Robert Chung <[email protected]> wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote
    > > Steve Gaylor <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > : Why is it that our culture consumes so much food compared to other cultures? There are more
    > > : fat people at a USCF race than there is in the street in Paris.
    > > Might be high amount of fats and sugar in the diet, not just the volume of food. Time to start
    > > eating soy beans, rice, fish and other veggies.

    > The French laugh at low-fat diets.

    Here's something timely:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/books/review/12POLLANT.html

    First three paragraphs of the book review are below, go to the link to read the whole thing. I'll
    have a grande soy latte with that ...

    'Fat Land': Supersizing America

    By MICHAEL POLLAN

    Add another to the string of superlatives wreathing the world's greatest power: Americans are now
    the fattest people on earth. (Actually a handful of South Sea Islanders still outweigh us, but
    we're gaining.) Six out of every 10 of us -- and fully a quarter of our children -- are now
    overweight. Just since 1970 the proportion of American children who are overweight has doubled, a
    rate of increase that suggests the fattening of America has a specific history as well as a
    biology. ''Fat Land,'' a skinny book about this big subject, is the journalist Greg Critser's
    highly readable attempt to reconstruct that history.

    At least from a business perspective, the fattening of America may well have been a necessity. Food
    companies grow by selling us more of their products. The challenge they face is that the American
    population is growing much more slowly than the American food supply -- a prescription for falling
    rates of profit. Agribusiness now produces 3,800 calories of food a day for every American, 500
    calories more than it produced 30 years ago. (And by the government's lights, at least a thousand
    more calories than most people need.) So what's a food company to do? The answer couldn't be
    simpler or more imperative: get each of us to eat more. A lot more.

    Critser doesn't put it quite this way, but his subject is the nutritional contradictions of
    capitalism. There's only so much food one person can consume (unlike shoes or CD's), or so you
    would think. But Big Food has been nothing short of ingenious in devising ways to transform its
    overproduction into our overconsumption -- and body fat. The best parts of this book show how, in
    the space of two decades, Americans learned to eat, on average, an additional 200 calories a day.
    In the words of James O. Hill, a physiologist Critser interviewed, getting fat today is less an
    aberration than ''a normal response to the American environment.''
     
  14. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Well, cardio is not the same as muscle mass. All you old fogeys with 20 years of riding under your
    > belts may have paunches, but you also have toned legs and the ability to do heavy cardio exercise
    > for hours.

    Today the weather looked really crappy. I rode a short 25 mile loop stopping at a coffee shop as
    usual in the middle of the ride. I saw only about five or six riders all day and every one of them
    was over 50.
     
  15. Danny Callen

    Danny Callen Guest

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ilan
    > Vardi) wrote:
    >
    > > Well, I live in Paris, so maybe I can try to explain this. First, many of these Parisian people
    > > are "skinny fat", that is, normal weight, zero muscle, so look OK bundled up, which is
    > > consistent with the almost fanatical disapproval of shorts (that's how you spot American
    > > tourists), which conceal the stick-like legs. Indeed, muscle is not considered a desirable
    > > characteristic except for the gay population which, in Paris at least, is the only subculture in
    > > which weight lifting is considered
    OK.
    >
    > > Finally, I have to admit that I also have been puzzled by the true
    statement
    > > about master's racing. I am also not very skinny, and it comes as a
    surprise
    > > to me how much fitter I am than most muscular looking younger people.
    > >
    > > -ilan
    >
    > Well, cardio is not the same as muscle mass. All you old fogeys with 20 years of riding under your
    > belts may have paunches, but you also have toned legs and the ability to do heavy cardio exercise
    > for hours.
    >
    > The muscly young guys may be naturally muscular or gym-rats, and they might be able to lift you,
    > your bike, and your girlfriend on the bench press, but they won't be able to match your
    > cardiovascular endurance.
    >
    > Of course, if you want to feel humbled, seek out some of those ancient ultra-distance trail
    > runners with wrinkly faces, no body fat, and the ability to run as far as you could ride. The
    > downside of cycling's no-impact, unloaded-body workout is that you can be fat and fairly fast,
    > because the penalty for carrying your weight is much less than it would be if you were running, at
    > least until you get to a hill.
    >
    > The coolest thing I saw was a match sprint at the velodrome involving a guy who looked like
    > a near-retirement out-of-shape accountant, and I was thinking to myself "what is he doing
    > out there?"
    >
    > I stopped thinking that after he got on the pedals and outfoxed his much-younger, fit-looking
    > opponent, beating him to the finish. Another one of those creepy masters who has put in his years
    > of training and can hardly help but be fit and fast no matter what the body looks like.
    >
    > --
    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

    Looks like we have a winner! If Bike racing were about looking good, we wouldn't train we just have
    a damn beauty contest and pass out the winnings! Ryan points out that racing is more than wattage,
    training miles, and weight. Many Masters (myself included) have mortgages, kids, 60 hour work weeks
    and barely fit enough training time in to roll forward.

    Danny Callen
     
  16. Ken Papai

    Ken Papai Guest

    Posting a 1MB JPG image is the equivalent of a Cat. 6 with $2000 racing wheels.

    "Robert Chung" <.net...
    >
    > "Ilan Vardi" <[email protected]> wrote
    > > Finally, I have to admit that I also have been puzzled by the true
    > statement
    > > about master's racing. I am also not very skinny, and it comes as a
    > surprise
    > > to me how much fitter I am than most muscular looking younger people.
    >
    > http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~ilan/tan2.JPG

    Posting a 1MB JPG image of someone with a really hariy chest is the equivalent of a Cat. 6/Citizen
    racer with $2000 racing wheels.
     
  17. > I didn't mean to imply that French were healthy but in France and Switzerland I didn't see a
    > single fat person in two weeks that wasn't speaking English.
    >
    My cousins in France have frequently made a similar comment. We Americans are rather conspicuous...

    Bruce
     
  18. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

  19. Suz

    Suz Guest

    Somatotyping gives a far more complete description of
    > physical "type." If you "knew somatotyping," had never heard of Greg Lemond, and I said "Lemond is
    > a 2-6-3" you would instantly have better picture in your mind of his physical appearance and
    > makeup than if a simple height to mass ratio alone was given. Powerful and conditioned athletes
    > are never misidentified as "overweight" when the somatotyping method is used.

    Oh c'mon, share with the class what somatotyping is!
     
  20. "Bruce Gilbert" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > I didn't mean to imply that French were healthy but in France and Switzerland I didn't see a
    > > single fat person in two weeks that wasn't speaking English.
    > >
    > My cousins in France have frequently made a similar comment. We Americans are rather
    > conspicuous...
    >

    The same is true here in Sweden. Unfortunately we have started to adapt to
    U.S eating habits which is starting to show now. A lot more kids are overweight today than when I
    was a kid. Physicians are starting to get worried and the papers do a lot of writeups about it.

    Myself I think it's eating what I call "factory food", not only junk food. Ie food prepared in a
    factory, canned or packaged together with a bunch of additives that are not healthy. Now that's just
    my two cents worth.

    --
    Replace the dots to reply

    Perre
     
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