Fatality in D.C.

Marlene Blanshay said:

I remember last year I saw the aftermath of a collision between a guy on a
bike and a roller blader, on a bike path. I'm surprised that doesn't happen
more often. The guy was lying there unconscious. He actually had a helmet
on, although it was an old beat up one. He was lying on his back and
probably smacked the back of his head. Howver, I am sure even the crummy
helmet was better than nothing. I didn't stick around for the ambulance but
I am pretty sure he wasn't dead or seriously injured. As for the roller
blader, she seemed okay.

Wait, was the roller blader wearing a new helmet, and therefore okay?
S/he moves as fast, or potentially as fast, as the cyclist, and has
just as far to fall, on the same pavement.

H'mmmm....

-Luigi

S o r n i said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

... an excellent post!

Guess we'll have to take your word for it.

Bill "if it was so good, why'd you snip it all?" S.

I assume everyone is using a threaded newsreader. They are standard, of
course. And part of "netiquette" is to _not_ waste bandwidth by
needlessly copying an entire post to say "Good post."

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

"R15757" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman wrote in part:

<< I don't want to hear about fatalities here, nor do I want the google
to record nothing but fatality reports. >>

Come to think of it, I don't even want to hear about bike-related

accidents and

Quoted message said:

injuries, nagging knee pain, fit problems, greedy shops, loose bolts,

ripped

Quoted message said:

shorts, flat tires, mysterious creaking, wrong-way riders, bonking,

drivers who

Quoted message said:

yell and throw things, taco'd wheels, et cetera.

Robert
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

ya let's stop writing about cycling altogether! i propose we change the name
of this group to alt.tightywhiteys.misc

In article <[email hidden]>,

Marlene Blanshay said:

And hey, how about those Red Sox? What is Ramirez batting now anyways?

I dunno; it'll be in the Sporting News. But a Cards/Sox Series
would be classically great. A Cubs/Sox Series would be too weird.
An Expos/Sox Series would be as intriguing as Mets/Sox. But not
anything with the BoSox and those (other) Floridian guys.

Anyhow, I'll begrudgingly eat pizza with pineapple on it. But I
might not necessarily agree with it. Especially when the parmesan
cheese and ground chili gets shaken onto it.

And when riders take chances without taking appropriate measures
to survive (especially when it comes to using lights at night,
and being sober), I concur with you. Despite the helmet stuff.

cheers, & the Montreal Expos were ripped-off in '89 (where's your
Moises now!),
Tom

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"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marlene Blanshay said:

I remember last year I saw the aftermath of a collision between a guy on

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike and a roller blader, on a bike path. I'm surprised that doesn't

happen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more often. The guy was lying there unconscious. He actually had a helmet
on, although it was an old beat up one. He was lying on his back and
probably smacked the back of his head. Howver, I am sure even the crummy
helmet was better than nothing. I didn't stick around for the ambulance

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am pretty sure he wasn't dead or seriously injured. As for the roller
blader, she seemed okay.

Wait, was the roller blader wearing a new helmet, and therefore okay?
S/he moves as fast, or potentially as fast, as the cyclist, and has
just as far to fall, on the same pavement.

H'mmmm....

-Luigi

I don't think she was wearing a helmet, but I remember her sitting up on
the grass and she was conscious, maybe a bit dazed or banged up.

Quoted message said:

In the case in question, I don't have enough data to apportion blame.
People die in car wrecks all the time; it doesn't stop me or my
friends from driving. People die in plane crashes all the time; it
doesn't stop me from flying. People die all the time--it doesn't stop
me from living.

My mother called me at work Friday morning to verify that I wasn't
the dead cyclist. I wasn't.

But I do know the intersection, it's moderate during that time period
but it's navigable at any time. Reports vary on what exactly happened,
the WUSA report disagrees with the WTOP report as to who exactly was
on which street heading where.

It seems likely that the cyclist was crunched by the inward side of
the trailer as the semi turned. It is certain that the bicycle was
dragged under the truck for a distance before the driver was flagged
down by passers-by, the photos show the bicycle still under the trailer
after the truck was stopped.

This wasn't apparently under the rider's control, it seems apparent
that if the rider was indeed stopped it's basically an operational
failure on the part of the truck driver.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Quoted message said:

Is it light at 5:50am in DC at the end of July?

Dawnlight, i.e. just before official sunrise. It was clear that day
on the commute, it could have rained earlier but I don't know, I don't
get out on the road before 0830.

Your points about trucks are well taken.

By the way, the deceased was Marciano Axibal, 63, of Fredericksburg VA.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Tom Keats said:

So ... does pineapple /really/ belong on pizza? ;-)

YES!!!!!

-km, who only eats pizza if there's pineapple on it

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

"Jeremy Parker" wrote...

Quoted message said:

That said, here in left driving London a quarter of all cyclist
fataltities arise from left turning trucks. It's nearly always a
truck, never a car. This is in a country where left turn on red is
not legal.

My personal car is a Honda Civic, my work entails driving a 15 passenger
van. Vehicles passing me on the right (right driving US) are somewhat
difficult to see when I'm in my Honda; they are much harder to see when I'm
driving the van. I would guess that this pattern would hold as the trucks
get bigger, and a bicyclist sneaking up on the inside (right in the US, left
in the UK) would be all but invisible to the driver of an 18 wheeler.

Quoted message said:

The accidents get counted as the truck drivers fault, and they are
experimenting with ever more complicated mirror systems on trucks,
even TV monitors now. There's a new approach, too, a notice on the
back of the truck, "If you can't see me in my mirror, I can't see
you", which, of course, has to be true.

Isn't passing on the left ("undertaking"😉 illegal in the UK? That would put
the cyclist at fault, IMHO.
"If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you" has been on American trucks
for years.

Quoted message said:

No matter whose fault the accidents get counted as, they are
trivially easy for cyclists to avoid, once they know of the problem.
Just stay out of the "coffin corner" as it's known here.

Last month I cycled with my eldest niece from Dublin/Rathfarnham to the Dun
Laoghaire ferry terminal, where I had to catch a boat to Holyhead, Wales. I
watched with dismay as she blithely cycled up to the front of lines of cars
on the left, usually coming to a stop just next to and to the left of a
large truck (left driving Ireland). I explained to her about the dangers of
becoming "road pizza", but since my niece had never driven a car in her
life, much less a large truck, she had no idea of the limits to a motorist's
visibility. How many of the cyclist fatalities in London involve cyclists
who have never driven a car, or who rarely drive a car?

Quoted message said:

Fortunately, here in Britain there's no law about staying "as far
left as practicable" - I'm not sure DC has that law, either. Nor
does Britain have any law requiring you to stay in a bike lane if you
don't feel in the mood, though presumably 14th and Const' don't have
bike lanes.

Here in Colorado, "as far right as practicable" means you can move to the
left for debris, bad pavement, right turn only lanes, etc. We have no law
requiring cyclists to stay on the cycle path, and the law explicit states
that a cyclist can use the roadway even if a cycle path is present.
--
mark

the black rose said:

Tom Keats said:

So ... does pineapple /really/ belong on pizza? ;-)

YES!!!!!

-km, who only eats pizza if there's pineapple on it

pineapple & garlic! yummm..

oh, & beer.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

the black rose said:

Tom Keats said:

So ... does pineapple /really/ belong on pizza? ;-)

YES!!!!!

-km, who only eats pizza if there's pineapple on it

pineapple & garlic! yummm..

oh, & beer.

*German* beer.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Quoted message said:

"Eric S. Sande" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

It seems likely that the cyclist was crunched by the inward side of
the trailer as the semi turned.

That seemed to me to be the most likely version of events when I read the
article but the sketchy details weren't enough for me to draw any conclusions.

Quoted message said:

This wasn't apparently under the rider's control, it seems apparent
that if the rider was indeed stopped it's basically an operational
failure on the part of the truck driver.

Again, details are lacking and I do agree that the truck driver was at fault
but not necessarily that the person struck had no control over events. Trucks
of sufficient length to "clip" anything while turning tend to turn rather
slowly. Had the person struck been looking in that direction they may have been
able to avoid being struck fairly easily. That's not to assign blame to the
deceased but merely to point up how important it is to try to be aware at *all*
times when in proximity to potential hazards, even when one is "just standing
there".

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

Again, details are lacking and I do agree that the truck driver was at
fault but not necessarily that the person struck had no control over
events.

The problem is that the WTOP (radio) report has the truck turning
right northbound onto US 1, aka 14th Street, and striking a cyclist
"standing with his bike". That would be possible but it would mean
Axibal was on foot and not operating. Also it would imply that the
truck was moving west on Constitution prior to the turn.

The WUSA report quotes the MPD as stating that Mr. Axibal was riding
east on Constitution and the truck was moving north on 14th.

WJLA has the same information.

Assuming Mr. Axibal did not run the light at 14th and Constitution,
to have this collision within a (long) block would have meant that
either he stopped on Constitution past the light and was tagged at
the corner OR he was hit in the intersection OR he was hit further
down the block on Constitution.

The MPD closed Constitution between 14th and 12th, NOT 14th Street.

At least WUSA has done at least one follow up story including an
interview with a WABA person, predictably (and unfortunately) along
the lines of "highlighting the dangers of riding in traffic".

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

the black rose said:

*German* beer.

irish, czech, german or english in that order.

it's actually fairly difficult to gauge which beer goes best with pineapple.
i'd guess harp. best to have enuf that it no longer matters.

that's also how i deal with american beer: guinness, guinness, guinness,
guinness, miller, miller .. ad nauseum.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 19:52:06 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At least WUSA has done at least one follow up story including an
interview with a WABA person, predictably (and unfortunately) along
the lines of "highlighting the dangers of riding in traffic".

Really?

*sigh*

I expected better from WABA, really.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I expected better from WABA, really.

Those were WUSA's words, in fairness, not WABA's.

The WABA guy was talking "Share the road".

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Keats said:

So ... does pineapple /really/ belong on pizza? ;-)

YES!!!!!

-km, who only eats pizza if there's pineapple on it

Would you guys quit talking about pizza? I did a pretty gnarly 70 miler
today as my last hurrah before RSVP, and I am *ravenous*. My husband's gone
to fetch the pies, which are:

Pie #1: Fontina and mozzarella cheeses, roasted garlic, mushrooms, fresh
tomatoes, goat cheese, parsley and kalamata olives on an olive oil base
Pie #2: Salami, italian sausage and mushroom on a red sauce
plus a
large "Pagliaccio" salad: green leaf lettuce tossed with garbanzo beans,
diced red pepper, cheese, salami, red onion

I can't wait!

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

David Reuteler said:

that's also how i deal with american beer: guinness, guinness, guinness,
guinness, miller, miller .. ad nauseum.

I always try to stop just before the Miller. Let alone the nauseum.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Quoted message said:

"Eric S. Sande" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

The problem is that the WTOP (radio) report has the truck turning
right northbound onto US 1, aka 14th Street, and striking a cyclist
"standing with his bike". That would be possible but it would mean
Axibal was on foot and not operating. Also it would imply that the
truck was moving west on Constitution prior to the turn.

The WUSA report quotes the MPD as stating that Mr. Axibal was riding
east on Constitution and the truck was moving north on 14th.

WJLA has the same information.

Assuming Mr. Axibal did not run the light at 14th and Constitution,
to have this collision within a (long) block would have meant that
either he stopped on Constitution past the light and was tagged at
the corner OR he was hit in the intersection OR he was hit further
down the block on Constitution.

The MPD closed Constitution between 14th and 12th, NOT 14th Street.

At least WUSA has done at least one follow up story including an
interview with a WABA person, predictably (and unfortunately) along
the lines of "highlighting the dangers of riding in traffic".

Having seen firsthand on numerous occasions how badly some of them can screw up
the most basic of facts, I'm biased against putting much faith in electronic
news media reports. I don't know anything about specific DC media outlets so I
can only guess how my own SOP on rating reliability of reportage would work
there-
Two sources agree, one does not.
Tentatively accept the majority report but keep an open mind and discount 33%
of the majority report's content until all the facts are in.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Sun, 01 Aug 2004 21:57:58 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

David Reuteler said:

that's also how i deal with american beer: guinness, guinness, guinness,
guinness, miller, miller .. ad nauseum.

I always try to stop just before the Miller. Let alone the nauseum.

Lately I've been sampling a friend's various home brews. He's outdone
himself with a blackberry dark ale. His beer always tastes like more

Or I'm bumping into kegs of Storm - an East Van micro brewery
enthusiastically supported by the bicycling community that is in
return, supported by Storm.

http://www.gypsymermaid.com/stormbrewing.html.
--
zk