Fattie Master?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Kenny, Jun 10, 2003.

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  1. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for and why
    is it used so much here?
     
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  2. in article [email protected], Kenny at [email protected] wrote on
    06/10/2003 05:25 AM:

    > I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for and
    > why is it used so much here?

    I'm pretty sure Henry Chang coined the term. Oldest reference I can find is at:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3a28ae3d.55162098
    %40news.connectnet.com&rnum=297&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfattie%2Brec.bicycles.rac
    ing%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26start%3D290%26sa%3DN%26fi lter%3D0

    Danny Callen made a reference to his fat ass, and Henry took it from there. However, the term really
    didn't come into its own until Henry and Fattie Stevie "I'm NOT
    FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Taylor started in on each other.

    Thankfully, Henry has dropped the Fattie Stevie thing ... too bad Fattie Stevie can't say the same
    thing, considering his parrot obsession (or fetish).

    --

    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
    ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
    dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
     
  3. On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:49:52 GMT, Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
    >> I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for and
    >> why is it used so much here?
    >
    >I'm pretty sure Henry Chang coined the term. Oldest reference I can find is at:
    >
    >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3a28ae3d.55162098
    >%40news.connectnet.com&rnum=297&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfattie%2Brec.bicycles.rac
    >ing%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26start%3D290%26sa%3DN%26fi lter%3D0

    However, if you also count "fat master" then Albright rules supremely: http://groups.google.com/gro-
    ups?selm=slrnfbtfl009flj7n.pil.albrigh%40dolphin.upenn.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

    Here's an overly sensitive Fattie Master who predates Stevie:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=cqJJ6.75099%24122.14334336%40news1.rdc1.md.home.com

    The earliest post combining the ideas of being both a Masters racer and fat, dates from July 1993:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=21kdvdINN9n4%40lynx.unm.edu
     
  4. Jtn

    Jtn Guest

    the term only applies to California and Florida Geographic's. so dont use it to describe old guys
    racing anywhere else, say, Colorado for instance. most masters here are thinner and fitter than
    other areas of the nation.

    "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for and
    > why is it used so much here?
     
  5. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

  6. I think Kenny's mostly confused by the word master. We tend to call that 'veterans' in Flanders. And
    even then that's a breed which hardly exists as folks in general just ride with the club. Use of the
    English word 'master' generally implies a notion of supreme excellence, not necessarily related to
    age. So for Flemish ears a fat master sounds oxymoronic.
     
  7. "JTN" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > the term only applies to California and Florida Geographic's. so dont use
    it
    > to describe old guys racing anywhere else, say, Colorado for instance.
    most
    > masters here are thinner and fitter than other areas of the nation.

    The "it's ok to gain 1 lb./year" is a nationwide sentiment.
     
  8. Jtn

    Jtn Guest

  9. "Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I think Kenny's mostly confused by the word master. We tend to call that 'veterans' in Flanders.
    > And even then that's a breed
    which hardly exists as folks in general
    > just ride with the club. Use of the English word 'master' generally implies a notion of supreme
    excellence, not necessarily related to
    > age. So for Flemish ears a fat master sounds oxymoronic.

    It should be oxymoronic in English too. Being 'masterful' at something implies excellence, not age.

    Some old ego-meister way back when must've coined that term - to describe the class of racer who
    considers himself too old to compete at his best level.

    They should switch the 'Seniors' and 'Masters' labels.

    'Senior' denotes old people. 'Masters' denotes competence.

    So what can we do? Add the word 'Fattie' to the back of 'Master' to bring it all back into
    perspective.
     
  10. "JTN" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > the term only applies to California and Florida Geographic's. so dont use it to describe old guys
    > racing anywhere else, say, Colorado for instance. most masters here are thinner and fitter than
    > other areas of the nation.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for and
    > > why is it used so much here?

    Yea, and if you call us Colo. masters fatties again, I'm might have to open up a 200# can of
    whup-ass on ya!
     
  11. Dashi Toshii

    Dashi Toshii Guest

  12. "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:49:52 GMT, Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
    > >> I have to ask: When and by whom is the name "fattie master" invented? What does it stand for
    > >> and why is it used so much here?
    > >
    > >I'm pretty sure Henry Chang coined the term. Oldest reference I can find
    is
    > >at:
    > >
    >
    >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3a28ae3d.5516209
    8
    >
    >%40news.connectnet.com&rnum=297&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfattie%2Brec.bicycles.ra
    c
    >
    >ing%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26start%3D290%26sa%3DN%26f
    i
    > >lter%3D0
    >
    > However, if you also count "fat master" then Albright rules supremely:
    >
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrnfbtfl009flj7n.pil.albrigh%40dolphin
    .upenn.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

    Granted, Andrew started in on "fat masters" before I did.

    I'll take credit for "Master's Fattie". "Masters Fattie" has a nice ring to
    it.
     
  13. Bret Wade

    Bret Wade Guest

    Bart Van Hoorebeeck wrote:

    > I think Kenny's mostly confused by the word master. We tend to call that 'veterans' in Flanders.
    > And even then that's a breed which hardly exists as folks in general just ride with the club. Use
    > of the English word 'master' generally implies a notion of supreme excellence, not necessarily
    > related to age. So for Flemish ears a fat master sounds oxymoronic.

    It must have been this confusion that lead a Belgian named Tim Elebaut to join the Boulder Masters
    Racing Team this year. He thought he was getting into a team of supreme excellence. They may have
    even told him that. :)

    We used to call it 'veterans' here too, but the USCF changed that for some reason. I like the
    Italian system where I would be in the 'Gentlemen' category.

    Bret
     
  14. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I think Kenny's mostly confused by the word master. We tend to call that 'veterans' in Flanders.
    > And even then that's a breed
    which hardly exists as folks in general
    > just ride with the club. Use of the English word 'master' generally implies a notion of supreme
    excellence, not necessarily related to
    > age. So for Flemish ears a fat master sounds oxymoronic.
    >
    Who are the Cyclosportieven en Masters then? It's kind of oxymoronic to clump those
    classes together.

    It's the masters age people who run the whole show all around the world anyway, so I guess they can
    call it what they want. I think anyone <40 shouldn't be in that class though, as the irrevocable
    physical decline (tm) takes a while to set in in cyclists. Museeuw's still good at 37, plenty of
    riders have won classics in their late 30's etc.

    I like the wielertoerist class - some of those guys can kick arse, and although there's no age
    limit, they all seem to be 55 and over.

    Jeff
     
  15. On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 05:59:18 +1000, "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It's the masters age people who run the whole show all around the world anyway, so I guess they can
    >call it what they want. I think anyone <40 shouldn't be in that class though, as the irrevocable
    >physical decline (tm) takes a while to set in in cyclists. Museeuw's still good at 37, plenty of
    >riders have won classics in their late 30's etc.
    >
    We've been having this "debate" in the Scottish Cycling Forum.

    http://www.scuonline.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=494

    Its suggested that the traditional cycling nations (France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland) don't
    give the same kudos to the fattie masters as the newbies (US, UK, Oz) - surely not - all those nice
    championship jerseys...

    Dig In! Stephen
     
  16. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Jeff Jones
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It's the masters age people who run the whole show all around the world anyway, so I guess they
    > can call it what they want. I think anyone <40 shouldn't be in that class though, as the
    > irrevocable physical decline (tm) takes a while to set in in cyclists. Museeuw's still good at 37,
    > plenty of riders have won classics in their late 30's etc.

    But more riders have retired by their early 30's because they aren't as fast anymore. What is the
    average age of a Grand Tour winner or WC race winner?

    Normally the VO2max will decline about 10ml (e.g. 75 goes to about 65) for every decade in age after
    about 30 years old. That is a significant
    % drop in the ability to go fast. I know of one Olympian who's VO2max
    was 85 in 1984 and his training goal right now is to get his VO2max up to 60.

    -WG

    at 53 and increasing
     
  17. Jeff Potter

    Jeff Potter Guest

    They should have a Masters Fatty class, like MTB Clydesdales. I liked that Fat Boys old-days poster.

    Over 40 and 20 lbs over fighting weight should do the trick.

    --

    Jeff Potter
    ****
    *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com for modern folkways and culture revival...
    ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, skis, books, movies...

    ...new books featuring: XC ski culture, a thriller about small town drug smuggling, and folding
    bicycles ... radical novels coming up! ...lots more books, downloadable music and videos ...
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    plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!
     
  18. Bret Wade

    Bret Wade Guest

  19. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    warren <[email protected]> wrote:
    > But more riders have retired by their early 30's because they aren't as fast anymore. What is the
    > average age of a Grand Tour winner or WC race winner?

    > Normally the VO2max will decline about 10ml (e.g. 75 goes to about 65) for every decade in age
    > after about 30 years old. That is a significant
    > % drop in the ability to go fast. I know of one Olympian who's VO2max
    > was 85 in 1984 and his training goal right now is to get his VO2max up to 60.

    For the Tour: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cvccbikers/tour/tour_age.html

    Gimondi won the Giro in 1976 at age 34. I think Pou-pou was 37 or thereabouts when he took a podium
    spot in 1976. He also took 2nd in 1974.

    The early 30s seems to be a very critical age for grand tour participants. But for classics racers
    it appears to be much less important, especially the cobbled classics. P-R may as well be a FM race
    with recent winners like Gibbus, Ballerini, and Museeuw.

    I don't have the data on sprinters but I don't think anyone should be surprised that Cipo is no
    longer the big dog in sprinting at
    36. The people at Saeco thought that was the case a few years back and he's still winning races,
    even if he is no longer the best bet.

    All you guys that are hoping for Pantani to get a spot in the Tour to liven things up... I don't
    know what you people are thinking. He's 33 and given the lack of meaningful racing for him in the
    recent past I think his days as a force in the mountains are over. But the history on his side is
    Van Impe who took polka dot jerseys at ages 34 and 36.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  20. Jtn

    Jtn Guest

    they do. its called cat 4 in the Colorado ACA. you should see them.

    "Jeff Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > They should have a Masters Fatty class, like MTB Clydesdales. I liked that Fat Boys
    > old-days poster.
    >
    > Over 40 and 20 lbs over fighting weight should do the trick.
     
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