Feedback needed-no swearing pls

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Joshua Goldberg, Jul 3, 2003.

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  1. Am So Conflicted here:

    I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China (Not Taiwan) and he asked
    how my Trike building was going...to which I replied that I was not able to find an Aluminum Welder
    who works cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a Welder made out of
    Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise LOL...

    So the guy says he knows of a Welding Shop who specializes in Alum. and is doing bicycle parts for
    nice big Taiwan based companies who are using China's cheaper labor rates...but shhhh don't tell
    anyone....Taiwan don't want those Americans to know us Chinamen are making their (Made in Taiwan
    bikes)...hmm hope he isn't talking about our Bents.

    Anyway....he says he might be able to get my Tadpole framesets made in China at a price way below
    what I'd have to pay in Taiwan. Well this got me all hot and bothered.

    NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America... I
    keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).

    The Feedback needed is this: given the choice of NOT having my tadpole (ever built) or having it
    built in North America and due to high labor costs...said bent will cost (at least $1,000.00 more to
    make).....OR do I stop dumping on RANS and others for going to Taiwan and join the masses who have
    their bents made outside America?

    Also note: I would still try to keep a balance going, re: having some parts made in the USA and
    assembly is on this side of the Pacific. What $ I save using China would be used to reduce the sale
    price of the trike...not to make me rich faster.

    I added that "make me rich" part to give Ricky Horwitz something to laugh about while eating
    his Cheerios.

    Also note: IF the quality of the welds is NOT present, I won't do this. Also sorry about my timing
    such a question just before the 4th.

    PSWhen I was a kid the 4th of July was the one day everyone got good and drunk and THEN set off a
    ton of Fireworks in their backyard and they seemed surprised when their garage or house burned to
    the ground.
     
    Tags:


  2. In article <[email protected]>, "Joshua says...

    >NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America...
    >I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).
    >
    >The Feedback needed is this: given the choice of NOT having my tadpole (ever built) or having it
    >built in North America and due to high labor costs...said bent will cost (at least $1,000.00 more
    >to make).....OR do I stop dumping on RANS and others for going to Taiwan and join the masses who
    >have their bents made outside America?

    >Also note: IF the quality of the welds is NOT present, I won't do this. Also sorry about my timing
    >such a question just before the 4th.

    Everyone outside the US is probably reading this and wondering what the big deal is - just go ahead
    and do it.

    Personaly I would prefer an American made product, like our Treks and Visions. But I am not so
    jingoistic that I would reject a product just because the frame were made overseas, IF the quality
    were there. (We own two RANS bikes too.) So if you can be certain of the quality, I would go ahead.

    Steve Christensen Midland, MI
     
  3. Your division is about this : should you be leading the pack and bring products to the masses at
    affordable prices, or should you make a niche product very few will buy and thereby support some
    low-volume shops.

    My opinion : if you are not developing the product further, and therefore doesn't need quick changes
    of the product, go with the chinaman (misunderstand me right, here ;-). If you need flexibility and
    quick changes, well, you guessed it, have it made "locally".

    It's all about your goals.

    Regards, Torben

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Am So Conflicted here:
    >
    > I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China (Not Taiwan) and he
    > asked how my Trike building was going...to which I replied that I was not able to find an Aluminum
    > Welder who works cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a Welder made
    out
    > of Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise LOL...
    >
    > So the guy says he knows of a Welding Shop who specializes in Alum. and is doing bicycle parts for
    > nice big Taiwan based companies who are using China's cheaper labor rates...but shhhh don't tell
    > anyone....Taiwan don't want those Americans to know us Chinamen are making their (Made in Taiwan
    > bikes)...hmm hope he isn't talking about our Bents.
    >
    > Anyway....he says he might be able to get my Tadpole framesets made in
    China
    > at a price way below what I'd have to pay in Taiwan. Well this got me all hot and bothered.
    >
    > NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America...
    > I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).
    >
    > The Feedback needed is this: given the choice of NOT having my tadpole
    (ever
    > built) or having it built in North America and due to high labor costs...said bent will cost (at
    > least $1,000.00 more to make).....OR do I stop dumping on RANS and others for going to Taiwan and
    > join the masses who have their bents made outside America?
    >
    > Also note: I would still try to keep a balance going, re: having some
    parts
    > made in the USA and assembly is on this side of the Pacific. What $ I save using China would be
    > used to reduce the sale price of the trike...not to make me rich faster.
    >
    > I added that "make me rich" part to give Ricky Horwitz something to laugh about while eating his
    > Cheerios.
    >
    > Also note: IF the quality of the welds is NOT present, I won't do this. Also sorry about my timing
    > such a question just before the 4th.
    >
    > PSWhen I was a kid the 4th of July was the one day everyone got good and
    drunk
    > and THEN set off a ton of Fireworks in their backyard and they seemed surprised when their garage
    > or house burned to the ground.
    >
     
  4. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Am So Conflicted here:

    Dear So Conflicted:

    You can now enjoy the benefits of slave labor without the guilt!

    Just remember to always look for the Made in China label.

    skip
     
  5. Optimistx

    Optimistx Guest

    Who needs my money most: a person in an underdeveloped country to buy some food, or a person in the
    rich country, to purchase the 4. car to a the family?

    "skip" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä news:p[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Am So Conflicted here:
    >
    > Dear So Conflicted:
    >
    > You can now enjoy the benefits of slave labor without the guilt!
    >
    > Just remember to always look for the Made in China label.
    >
    > skip
     
  6. I cannot, in any way, conceive how it would be un-ethical to have your stuff made in Cina, on the
    moon or in the good old USA UNLESS you misrepresented its place of manufacture on the label.

    Get off your butt and DO IT. :)

    Lewis.

    *********************

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Am So Conflicted here:
    >
    > I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China (Not Taiwan) and he
    > asked how my Trike building was going...to which I replied that I was not able to find an Aluminum
    > Welder who works cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a Welder made out of
    > Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise LOL...
    >
    > So the guy says he knows of a Welding Shop who specializes in Alum. and is doing bicycle parts for
    > nice big Taiwan based companies who are using China's cheaper labor rates...but shhhh don't tell
    > anyone....Taiwan don't want those Americans to know us Chinamen are making their (Made in Taiwan
    > bikes)...hmm hope he isn't talking about our Bents.
    >
    > Anyway....he says he might be able to get my Tadpole framesets made in China at a price way below
    > what I'd have to pay in Taiwan. Well this got me all hot and bothered.
    >
    > NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America...
    > I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).
    >
    > The Feedback needed is this: given the choice of NOT having my tadpole (ever built) or having it
    > built in North America and due to high labor costs...said bent will cost (at least $1,000.00 more
    > to make).....OR do I stop dumping on RANS and others for going to Taiwan and join the masses who
    > have their bents made outside America?
    >
    > Also note: I would still try to keep a balance going, re: having some parts made in the USA and
    > assembly is on this side of the Pacific. What $ I save using China would be used to reduce the
    > sale price of the trike...not to make me rich faster.
    >
    > I added that "make me rich" part to give Ricky Horwitz something to laugh about while eating his
    > Cheerios.
    >
    > Also note: IF the quality of the welds is NOT present, I won't do this. Also sorry about my timing
    > such a question just before the 4th.
    >
    > PSWhen I was a kid the 4th of July was the one day everyone got good and drunk and THEN set off a
    > ton of Fireworks in their backyard and they seemed surprised when their garage or house burned
    > to the ground.
     
  7. Bob Moyle <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>
    > <p>Joshua Goldberg wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>snip...
    > <p>I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China <br>(Not Taiwan) and
    > he asked how my Trike building was going...to which I <br>replied that I was not able to find
    > an Aluminum Welder who works <br>cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a
    > Welder made out <br>of Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise LOL...</blockquote>
    > ... snip <br><b>welder:</b> <i>n</i>: one that welds: as <b>a</b> <i>or</i>
    > <b>weldor: </b>one whose work is welding <b>b: </b>a machine used in welding</html>

    Yep, the html encoding made this info pretty useless to me.

    -Bill Hamilton
     
  8. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... [...]
    > NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America...
    > I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).
    [...] Indeed. You were quite insistent that it was not necessary at all to go to the Far East.

    John Riley
     
  9. Jim Plaia

    Jim Plaia Guest

    I can't help with the guilt and the angst of going outside the US for services (just got back from
    Germany for knee and back surgeries), but I am a metallurgist who's dealt with a lot of welding
    problems. Keep in mind the need to travel to the vendor and the difficulty of keeping in touch with
    them. I'm not suggesting that foreign companies are less reliable. I mean that every company I've
    dealt with on welding concerns has needed their hand held at some point to make sure they did what
    my company needed the way we needed it done. A few arguments and long distance business trips
    together with the need to do an occasional weld evaluation locally to make sure their quality
    control is good (cheaper than onsite inspection but still expensive) adds up quickly.

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Am So Conflicted here:
    >
    > I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China (Not Taiwan) and he
    > asked how my Trike building was going...to which I replied that I was not able to find an Aluminum
    > Welder who works cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a Welder made out of
    > Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise LOL...
    >
    > So the guy says he knows of a Welding Shop who specializes in Alum. and is doing bicycle parts for
    > nice big Taiwan based companies who are using
     
  10. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Am So Conflicted here:

    > So the guy says he knows of a Welding Shop who specializes in Alum. and is doing bicycle parts for
    > nice big Taiwan based companies who are using China's cheaper labor rates...but shhhh don't tell
    > anyone....Taiwan don't want those Americans to know us Chinamen are making their (Made in Taiwan
    > bikes)...hmm hope he isn't talking about our Bents.

    I had suspected as much.

    > Anyway....he says he might be able to get my Tadpole framesets made in
    China
    > at a price way below what I'd have to pay in Taiwan. Well this got me all hot and bothered.

    Naturally.

    > NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes made outside North America...
    > I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).

    Maybe you didn't completely understand the situation.

    > The Feedback needed is this: given the choice of NOT having my tadpole
    (ever
    > built) or having it built in North America and due to high labor costs...said bent will cost (at
    > least $1,000.00 more to make).....OR do I stop dumping on RANS and others for going to Taiwan and
    > join the masses who have their bents made outside America?

    You need to take stock of the realities of bicycle production in 2003. Go ahead and have the frames
    welded in China. It's better to employ Chinese workers than to employ nobody at all; and that is
    what we're talking about, isn't it?

    It's also about your target market. If you're in the Bigha price range, Made in America might be a
    good choice. If you want to compete with BigCat, TerraTrike, etc, you really have no choice but to
    manufacture offshore.

    Since you're committing to offshore manufacturing, why not go ahead and have the bikes assembled
    there, too? Use Sunrace, Dotek, Tektro and Cyclone/CRP components, Araya rims, Kenda tires - not a
    Shimano or SRAM part on the entire trike. I bet you could really knock the price down with that kind
    of strategy.

    Of course, when you place your order for 100 trikes, I suppose you'd better have a dealership
    network in place, ready to handle the customers. Oh, and there is marketing. And distribution. And
    warranty claims handling. And customer support....

    Best of luck, Joshua.

    Barry
     
  11. Skip

    Skip Guest

    > >
    > > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Am So Conflicted here:

    > "skip" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä news:p[email protected]

    > > Dear So Conflicted:
    > >
    > > You can now enjoy the benefits of slave labor without the guilt!
    > >
    > > Just remember to always look for the Made in China label.
    > >
    > > skip
    > >
    "optimistx" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Who needs my money most: a person in an underdeveloped country to buy some food, or a person in
    > the rich country, to purchase the 4. car to a the family?
    >

    Lemme get this straight Optimistx, there's a nine year old child forced to make fireworks in China
    and you're telling me you're helping that child by going out this 4th of July and purchasing those
    fireworks. Furthermore you believe by doing this you are also withholding money a rich person
    somewhere.

    How liberal of you.

    skip
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    > ... I added that "make me rich" part to give Ricky Horwitz something to laugh about while eating
    > his Cheerios....

    I would have though a trike builder would only be able to afford generic breakfast cereal.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  13. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    "B. Sanders" wrote:
    > ... It's also about your target market. If you're in the Bigha price range, Made in America might
    > be a good choice. If you want to compete with BigCat, TerraTrike, etc, you really have no choice
    > but to manufacture offshore....

    I was under the impression that both the Catrike Speed and WhizWheelz TerraTrike were made in the US
    - has either moved production elsewhere?

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  14. This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C341B3.C734E5F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Bite Me "Bob Moyle" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
    news:[email protected]...
    =20
    Joshua Goldberg wrote:=20

    snip...=20 I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in = China=20
    (Not Taiwan) and he asked how my Trike building was going...to which = I=20 replied that I
    was not able to find an Aluminum Welder who works=20 cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who
    welds Aluminum) NOT a Welder = made out=20 of Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be
    precise LOL...

    ... snip=20 welder: n: one that welds: as a or weldor: one whose work is welding =
    b: a machine used in welding ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C341B3.C734E5F0 Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
    http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
    6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
    <DIV>Bite Me</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
    = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DV>"Bob Moyle" <<A=20
    =
    href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>&g= t;=20 wrote in
    message <A=20
    =
    href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:[email protected]=
    osuchdomain.com</A>...</DIV> =20

    <P>Joshua Goldberg wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">snip...=20
    <Q>I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries = in China=20 <BR>(Not
    Taiwan) and he asked how my Trike building was going...to = which I=20 <BR>replied that I was
    not able to find an Aluminum Welder who works =

    <BR>cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum) NOT a = Welder made=20 out <BR>of
    Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise=20 LOL...</P></BLOCKQUOTE>... snip
    <BR><B>welder:</B> <I>n</I>: one that = welds:=20 as <B>a</B> <I>or</I> <B>weldor: </B>one whose
    work is welding =
    <Q>a:=20 </B>a machine used in welding </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C341B3.C734E5F0--
     
  15. sorry, accidently changed my send settings
    ***************
    "Bill Hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Bob Moyle <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>
    > > <p>Joshua Goldberg wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>snip...
    > > <p>I was "approached" last nite by a chap I deal with for Batteries in China <br>(Not Taiwan)
    > > and he asked how my Trike building was going...to which I <br>replied that I was not able to
    > > find an Aluminum Welder who works <br>cheap....hmmm re-worded ( a welder who welds Aluminum)
    > > NOT a Welder made out <br>of Aluminum...tough group here so I need to be precise
    > > LOL...</blockquote> ... snip <br><b>welder:</b> <i>n</i>: one that welds: as <b>a</b>
    > > <i>or</i>
    > > <b>weldor: </b>one whose work is welding <b>b: </b>a machine used in welding</html>
    >
    >
    > Yep, the html encoding made this info pretty useless to me.
    >
    > -Bill Hamilton
     
  16. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "B. Sanders" wrote:
    > > ... It's also about your target market. If you're in the Bigha price range, Made in America
    > > might be a good choice. If you want to compete with
    BigCat,
    > > TerraTrike, etc, you really have no choice but to manufacture
    offshore....
    >
    > I was under the impression that both the Catrike Speed and WhizWheelz TerraTrike were made in the
    > US - has either moved production elsewhere?

    They're both doing very well at keeping prices down if they're building the entire trike in the US.
    Then again, there are a lot of folks out of work these days...wages and opportunities aren't what
    they were 5 years ago.

    Joshua hasn't been forthcoming with any exacting figures; but I'm going to hazard a guess that he
    can produce a nice tadpole trike in China that would retail in the US for around $1,100.

    -Barry
     
  17. Optimistx

    Optimistx Guest

    "skip" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä news:[email protected]...
    > "optimistx" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Who needs my money most: a person in an underdeveloped country to buy
    some
    > > food, or a person in the rich country, to purchase the 4. car to a the family?
    > >
    >
    > Lemme get this straight Optimistx, there's a nine year old child forced to make fireworks in China
    > and you're telling me you're helping that child by going out this 4th of July and purchasing those
    > fireworks. Furthermore
    you
    > believe by doing this you are also withholding money a rich person somewhere.
    >
    > How liberal of you.
    >
    > skip
    >
    >

    With the same logic, if there is some illegal labor working in the U.S, , or some 9 year old
    children working somewhere there , should I not buy products made in the U.S. ? Would I help that
    illegal Mexican immigrant or child by buying US products?

    I am withholding my money going elsewhere directly from me. I can not make rich people poor, and
    that is not my wish either.

    Liberal? I try to be a good world citizen. Kind to everyone. That makes me feel good. I try to help
    people in underdeveloped countries in the best ways I know in my situation. If you know better ways,
    I am very eager to learn.

    Even if the Chinese bike parts I purchase may not be the best I think they are learning. 1950's
    many Japanese products had very low quality. But they learnt. Now look at the Japanese cars: they
    have learned.

    You are free to feel otherwise. I even try to defend your right to think in your own way to my
    last breath.
     
  18. Skip

    Skip Guest

    .
    >> > "optimistx" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>>
    > > > Who needs my money most: a person in an underdeveloped country to buy
    > some
    > > > food, or a person in the rich country, to purchase the 4. car to a the family?

    >> "skip" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä news:[email protected]..
    > >
    > > Lemme get this straight Optimistx, there's a nine year old child forced
    to
    > > make fireworks in China and you're telling me you're helping that child
    by
    > > going out this 4th of July and purchasing those fireworks. Furthermore
    > you
    > > believe by doing this you are also withholding money from a rich person somewhere.
    > >
    > > How liberal of you.
    > >
    > > skip
    > >
    > >

    >"optimistx" <[email protected]> wrote in >message
    .news:08aNa.64>[email protected]
    >
    > With the same logic, if there is some illegal labor working in the U.S, , or some 9 year old
    > children working somewhere there , should I not buy products made in the U.S. ? Would I help that
    > illegal Mexican immigrant or child by buying US products?
    >

    No that's a different logic. The United States does not permit child labor, involuntary forced
    labor, or slave labor. You would be in serious trouble if you even thought about doing that here in
    the States. That's quite different from non registered illegal Mexican adult voluntary labor (not
    immigrants), which is something we do need to recognize and contend with here.

    In communist China human rights and worker abuses are a way of life for that regime and are well
    documented.

    >
    >
    > I am withholding my money going elsewhere directly from me. I can not make rich people poor, and
    > that is not my wish either.
    >
    > Liberal? I try to be a good world citizen. Kind to everyone. That makes me feel good. I try to
    > help people in underdeveloped countries in the best
    ways
    > I know in my situation. If you know better ways, I am very eager to learn.
    >
    >

    If you support a state that condones or requires child or slave labor and if you purchase those
    products it can only encourage that state to increase those human abuses. I would suggest a good
    world citizen would boycott that system and speak out against it rather than support it.

    > Even if the Chinese bike parts I purchase may not be the best I think they are learning. 1950's
    > many Japanese products had very low quality. But they learnt. Now look at the Japanese cars: they
    > have learned.

    All right. I don't see a connection to the issue of child or slave labor, but at least we are on
    topic by your mention of Chinese bicycle parts.

    >
    > You are free to feel otherwise. I even try to defend your right to think
    in
    > your own way to my last breath.
    >

    Thank you. I will do the same for you and even go you one better. I will also defend your right to
    freely speak your thoughts, which is a freedom the mainland Chinese do not yet enjoy.

    skip
     
  19. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    JG can do as he wishes, as can recumbent buyers, but ... FWIW there is an article in the July 3 Wall
    Street Journal, p. B1, entitled "Why U.S. Manufacturing Won't Die." It says manufacturing will
    center on complex, value-added products and systems....products requiring highly automated machinery
    and systems... products in protected markets like medical instruments that are carefully monitored
    and require colloboration with medical customers... products that are perishable, like frozen food
    and bread...products that are big and bulky like kitchen cabinets...robotics...etc.

    Workers in some developing nations will develop skills to do some of these jobs, but they will
    demand higher wages, and even if their wages don't match US wages, they will spend their money,
    increasing overall world-wide demand for products...

    Bicycles actually seem like ideal products for developing nations because of their simplicity, low
    capital requirements, high labor requirements, potential for both domestic and export demand, etc.
    That said, points taken about the difficulty of communication and quality control. _Recumbent_
    bicycles might not be high enough volume to make it worth the trouble.

    John Riley
     
  20. Sorry for not replying sooner, did not see your message till now. You are correct, I am totally
    opposed to going offshore for something I feel can be done here, but I cannot find anyone who
    understands how bent trikes work and is willing to work cheap (initially) to weld the frames. I am
    still thinking of doing the Co-op and figure the only solution is to have the first batch of trikes
    made in China and then get a training grant from the Feds to hire some apprentice welder(s) to get
    into bents. "john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [...]
    > > NOW enter the problem part of all this...I am NOT a big fan of bikes
    made
    > > outside North America... I keep preaching that line (in case anyone ever reads what I write).
    > [...] Indeed. You were quite insistent that it was not necessary at all to go to the Far East.
    >
    > John Riley
     
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